Explosive Smisa application

[WeeBud]

29 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

If this issue is not resolved then this could have a detrimental impact on SMISA membership moving forward.

It must be addressed openly and honestly at the SMISA AGM and ultimately resolved.

Given SMISA membership had no involvement at all in this whole application process that subsequent fall out and potential membership drop off should be our greatest concern. 

We are now seeing divisions between fellow St Mirren supporters over this. 

That is disturbing.

Some fans are saying that they will cancel direct debits but that makes our position weaker moving forward when ideally we should be getting stronger year on year.

Let’s try and remember that our fans through SMISA memberships over the last 20 years have put significant money directly towards our academy, our charitable foundation, our community through free tickets, our fan experiences (Paisley Panda matchday activities, etc). 

We must not lose sight of what SMISA through direct supporter involvement have achieved over the last two decades. 

Please remember that this was not a mistake made by SMISA. 

There have been divisions ever since Gordon Scott took the quick buck and sold his shares to Kibble, I wasn't in favour of it at the time but the majority voted for it and that's democracy.

Since that date there has been a "group" (some not even SMiSA members) who have seen everything through "Kibble Bad" glasses and have stoked every possible fire since then so let's, at least, not pretend this is a new thing. People have been threatening to cancel subscriptions over a multitude of things (a wee bit toys out the pram stuff at times) but in general numbers have sustained at healthy levels.

I think this has been dealt with clumsily at all levels and by all parties, worse of all it is now being played out through National Media which will be to no-one's benefit.

You're correct that this was not a mistake made by SMiSA (members) but there were/are SMiSA representatives on the Club Board who are meant to look after both the Club's and SMiSA's best interests, we either trust them to do that or not. Currently, at least, the SMiSA Club Board reps appear to be supportive of the club's stance but the amount of "nod, wink, hearsay, innuendo etc" helps absolutely no-one.

If the worst that comes from this is that there are new protocols/procedures put in place to ensure this kind of thing doesn't re-occur then at least that's some sort of progress......unfortunately that won't be enough for the usual suspects.

[div]

I wrote a wee piece on the events of the last 10 days if anyone is interested.

https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/opinions/2279-kibble-0-wardrop-0

[Slarti]

There have been divisions ever since Gordon Scott took the quick buck and sold his shares to Kibble, I wasn't in favour of it at the time but the majority voted for it and that's democracy.
Since that date there has been a "group" (some not even SMiSA members) who have seen everything through "Kibble Bad" glasses and have stoked every possible fire since then so let's, at least, not pretend this is a new thing. People have been threatening to cancel subscriptions over a multitude of things (a wee bit toys out the pram stuff at times) but in general numbers have sustained at healthy levels.
I think this has been dealt with clumsily at all levels and by all parties, worse of all it is now being played out through National Media which will be to no-one's benefit.
You're correct that this was not a mistake made by SMiSA (members) but there were/are SMiSA representatives on the Club Board who are meant to look after both the Club's and SMiSA's best interests, we either trust them to do that or not. Currently, at least, the SMiSA Club Board reps appear to be supportive of the club's stance but the amount of "nod, wink, hearsay, innuendo etc" helps absolutely no-one.
If the worst that comes from this is that there are new protocols/procedures put in place to ensure this kind of thing doesn't re-occur then at least that's some sort of progress......unfortunately that won't be enough for the usual suspects.

TBF, there are also those who look through "Kibble good" glasses. My opinion is that a healthy scepticism is usually the best stance, no matter what you are talking about.

[WeeBud]

1 minute ago, Slarti said:

9 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

There have been divisions ever since Gordon Scott took the quick buck and sold his shares to Kibble, I wasn't in favour of it at the time but the majority voted for it and that's democracy.
Since that date there has been a "group" (some not even SMiSA members) who have seen everything through "Kibble Bad" glasses and have stoked every possible fire since then so let's, at least, not pretend this is a new thing. People have been threatening to cancel subscriptions over a multitude of things (a wee bit toys out the pram stuff at times) but in general numbers have sustained at healthy levels.
I think this has been dealt with clumsily at all levels and by all parties, worse of all it is now being played out through National Media which will be to no-one's benefit.
You're correct that this was not a mistake made by SMiSA (members) but there were/are SMiSA representatives on the Club Board who are meant to look after both the Club's and SMiSA's best interests, we either trust them to do that or not. Currently, at least, the SMiSA Club Board reps appear to be supportive of the club's stance but the amount of "nod, wink, hearsay, innuendo etc" helps absolutely no-one.
If the worst that comes from this is that there are new protocols/procedures put in place to ensure this kind of thing doesn't re-occur then at least that's some sort of progress......unfortunately that won't be enough for the usual suspects.

TBF, there are also those who look through "Kibble good" glasses. My opinion is that a healthy scepticism is usually the best stance, no matter what you are talking about.

I can only think of one of them 🙊

[elvis]

57 minutes ago, div said:

I wrote a wee piece on the events of the last 10 days if anyone is interested.

https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/opinions/2279-kibble-0-wardrop-0

I've said it before I never thought fan ownership was a good idea to many ego's the amount of chopping and changes and bickering confirms that to me.

[div]

32 minutes ago, elvis said:

I've said it before I never thought fan ownership was a good idea to many ego's the amount of chopping and changes and bickering confirms that to me.

Any football club, be it fan owned or privately owned, needs to be led by good, competent, trustworthy and capable people at the top.

I'm not massively convinced we have that right now.

 

[portmahomack saint]

26 minutes ago, elvis said:

I've said it before I never thought fan ownership was a good idea to many ego's the amount of chopping and changes and bickering confirms that to me.

Since fan ownership and since the reins were handed over in 2016 the club has progressed every year, without fan ownership we would have been playing our football in league 1 in 2017. and frightening to imagine where we'd be now ?

That confirms to me it was not only a good idea but a great idea 

[portmahomack saint]

5 minutes ago, div said:

Any football club, be it fan owned or privately owned, needs to be led by good, competent, trustworthy and capable people at the top.

I'm not massively convinced we have that right now.

 

Have you ever considered getting more involved yourself like applying to join the board.....  serious question 

Edited May 12, 2023 by portmahomack saint

[doakie]

12 minutes ago, div said:

Any football club, be it fan owned or privately owned, needs to be led by good, competent, trustworthy and capable people at the top.

I'm not massively convinced we have that right now.

 

Agreed.

[glen]

19 hours ago, golf buddie said:

Maybe this is end of forums, anyone speaking ill of club Simsa and or Kibble could be banned
I know several on here be happy to see others banned
Personally not sure club comes out of this well by banning anyone espas 2 games of season left and only gives story more traction

Sent from my SM-S901B using Tapatalk
 

This a letter from the same John Needham who in December 2021 was hit with a £6,000 fine by the Scottish Football Association for making "discriminatory or offensive" comments by the SFA compliance officer. He later apologised after the match Writing on Twitter, he said: "On Friday 22 October a number of Tweets I created in the past referring to Rangers fans were highlighted on Twitter. As a club chairman I have extra responsibility for the conduct and example I show. These posts are completely inappropriate and do not reflect my character or beliefs as a person and I very much regret them. I apologise unreservedly to the directors and fans of Rangers and to everyone at St Mirren. I am acutely aware of my responsibilities. This won't happen again."

But on the 6th March 2023 he 'liked' a social media post claiming that Andrew Dallas was operating VAR from an 'Orange Lodge' during our match against Celtic.

If anyone should be banned from the stadium it should be him.

Regardless of this current PR mess, it is time for this man and his Old Firm supporting Kibble associates to go. They presided over a loss of over £1.5 million on a turnover of £4 million last year. We cannot afford them much longer
 

Edited May 12, 2023 by glen

[Brilliant Disguise]

4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Which he should be utterly embarrassed about given how important our next four games are. The club doesn't need all this noise at this time. Especially from something that absolutely, looks like a settled and minimal matter. 

Typical response. Look over there, nothing to see here !! It’s a shit show and embarrassing for all involved.

While an explanation has been provided it still raises questions of why as a fans owned club we are banning ex Directors for raising concerns on the governance of the club. 

Fact - An application was made for grant funding with SMFC name on it and with SMFC land. (It took 12 months after the stage 1 application for someone to provide an explanation that the wrong land was used and it was the Councils fault) Why when this was initially brought up at the AGM by AW was this explanation not provided then.

Fact - We are led to believe that AW resigned from the Board over this. It is therefore safe to assume this must have been discussed at board level prior to his resignation and why he is still peddling the same theory. Presumably he would have been advised of the error and the use of the name at this stage

Questions - Who instructed Mr Needham to ban AW from the ground. The poster who confessed to advising the press, is he next. Where is the line for voicing an opinion and getting a ban. Why was Mr Needham not banned from the board never mind the ground for the number of stupid and unwise social media posts.

Question - AW rightly or wrongly is in the press about this. Why did the board not do their job properly and deal with this prior to it going public. What are the board actually doing. Questions need to be asked of them and whether they are all actually working in the best interest of the club. 

The sun might be shining now with the performances on the pitch. However it is evident from this debacle that it is a shitshow behind the scenes. That needs to be sorted now. This is a fans owned club !!! Whether you like AW or not the moronic comments about him on social media detract from anyone else putting their name forward to do this role. End result we end up with people on the board who are incapable of running a business and making business decisions for the greater good of the club and not their ego, self interest or incestuous connection to other businesses.

[InMehmetWeTrust]

10 minutes ago, glen said:

This a letter from the same John Needham who in December 2021 was hit with a £6,000 fine by the Scottish Football Association for making "discriminatory or offensive" comments by the SFA compliance officer. He later apologised after the match Writing on Twitter, he said: "On Friday 22 October a number of Tweets I created in the past referring to Rangers fans were highlighted on Twitter. As a club chairman I have extra responsibility for the conduct and example I show. These posts are completely inappropriate and do not reflect my character or beliefs as a person and I very much regret them. I apologise unreservedly to the directors and fans of Rangers and to everyone at St Mirren. I am acutely aware of my responsibilities. This won't happen again."

But on the 6th March 2023 he 'liked' a social media post claiming that Andrew Dallas was operating VAR from an 'Orange Lodge' during our match against Celtic.

If anyone should be banned from the stadium it should be him.

Regardless of this current PR mess, it is time for this man and his Old Firm supporting Kibble associates to go. They presided over a loss of over £1.5 million on a turnover of £4 million last year. We cannot afford them much longer
 

Glen, can I interest you in these magic beans which I have for sale?

[Cookie Monster]

This a letter from the same John Needham who in December 2021 was hit with a £6,000 fine by the Scottish Football Association for making "discriminatory or offensive" comments by the SFA compliance officer. He later apologised after the match Writing on Twitter, he said: "On Friday 22 October a number of Tweets I created in the past referring to Rangers fans were highlighted on Twitter. As a club chairman I have extra responsibility for the conduct and example I show. These posts are completely inappropriate and do not reflect my character or beliefs as a person and I very much regret them. I apologise unreservedly to the directors and fans of Rangers and to everyone at St Mirren. I am acutely aware of my responsibilities. This won't happen again."
But on the 6th March 2023 he 'liked' a social media post claiming that Andrew Dallas was operating VAR from an 'Orange Lodge' during our match against Celtic.
If anyone should be banned from the stadium it should be him.
Regardless of this current PR mess, it is time for this man and his Old Firm supporting Kibble associates to go. They presided over a loss of over £1.5 million on a turnover of £4 million last year. We cannot afford them much longer
 

The Andrew Dallas post from the BlackandWhiteArmy twitter account did not claim that he was operating VAR from an Orange Lodge.

It joked that is where he was going to be and the only folk that were claiming it to be accurate were or to be more precise now, are idiots. [emoji1787]

[Livinginthepast]

Banning the guy for criticising the board? Who does this character Needham think he is. If this so called board had a clear conscience they would laugh it off from their complimentary padded seats.

Bannng Wardrop or anyone else for that matter is an admission of guilt. Poor Poor St Mirren. Poor poor.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Livinginthepast said:

Banning the guy for criticising the board? Who does this character Needham think he is. If this so called board had a clear conscience they would laugh it off from their complimentary padded seats.

Bannng Wardrop or anyone else for that matter is an admission of guilt. Poor Poor St Mirren. Poor poor.

No it isn't. 

[billyg]

1 minute ago, Livinginthepast said:

Banning the guy for criticising the board? Who does this character Needham think he is. If this so called board had a clear conscience they would laugh it off from their complimentary padded seats.

Bannng Wardrop or anyone else for that matter is an admission of guilt. Poor Poor St Mirren. Poor poor.

Bollocks. Wardrop is dragging the clubs name through the mud for selfish reasons. He thought he could resign from the board , and then call them out , and everyone would swallow it. Trouble for him is , everyone who has seen how he operates knows he's an arsehole , a dangerous arsehole at that. 

[Livinginthepast]

4 minutes ago, billyg said:

Bollocks. Wardrop is dragging the clubs name through the mud for selfish reasons. He thought he could resign from the board , and then call them out , and everyone would swallow it. Trouble for him is , everyone who has seen how he operates knows he's an arsehole , a dangerous arsehole at that. 

Yes, I'll take your word for it, but you shouldnt get banned for being an arsehole. If that was the case the place would be half empty.

My point is, if theyve banned him then they think he has an accusation of which they are scared.

[div]

1 hour ago, portmahomack saint said:

Have you ever considered getting more involved yourself like applying to join the board.....  serious question 

I can't think of anything worse to be perfectly honest.

[Slarti]

Bollocks. Wardrop is dragging the clubs name through the mud for selfish reasons. He thought he could resign from the board , and then call them out , and everyone would swallow it. Trouble for him is , everyone who has seen how he operates knows he's an arsehole , a dangerous arsehole at that. 

Doesn't mean he's wrong.

[Slarti]

I can't think of anything worse to be perfectly honest.

What about having dinner with Dickson, shull and Faraway?

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, Slarti said:

52 minutes ago, div said:

I can't think of anything worse to be perfectly honest.

What about having dinner with Dickson, shull and Faraway?

Or spending 5 minutes with you.................

[gomaster]

Firstly I can't imagine anyone firing a loaded gun publicly without having tangible evidence at their disposal. AW is not an uneducated person as far as I can see. Board statement left questions unanswered as ultimately the land issue aside they confirmed no-one knew about stage 1 application until after it had been made, what would have happened if it had reached stage 2 without anyone's knowledge? Very strange that any application especially given it passed stage 1 and went to stage 2 allegedly had incorrect land showing. Also strange the actions of the SMFC Board banning AW given from what I have read at no point has AW made any allegation against the club nor the club board but rather against Kibble so why the ban. Also, given another poster on this forum claims to have provided the initial story freelance to the press who in turn would naturally then contact parties for further comment. If that is the case then again it's not AW who has gone directly to the press. To my mind this is only going to be resolved by both sides putting respective evidence on table. Maybe it would be an idea for Smisa to appoint an independent auditor with no affiliation to kibble or any other party to investigate the allegations provided they are given access to all documents pertaining to the application from Kibble and the Council together with any associated Club Board minutes when it was discussed. The outcome of that investigation should in theory identify what actually happened and who is right/wrong and then any appropriate action could be taken thereafter.  We can all speculate as to who is right/wrong and statements can be worded in any way to potentially hide key facts or muddy the position without giving clear facts.  Only time will tell what the truth actually is and how this resolves one way or other for all parties. 

[Tonysaintee65]

18 hours ago, bazil85 said:

See club statement. I choose to believe the football club I support & the people we have trusted to run the club over that rag paper. 

Let’s be clear shall we? The club statement does say that kibble made an initial application naming the st Mirren charitable foundation as a partner in the bid, it wasn’t that was a lie by kibble, the board only became aware of this after the bid entered second funding phase, the charitable trust were still not aware till this point.It took a board decision to say that the charitable trust should be made aware of the application! 
It was agreed that timely and appropriate discussions must take place regarding any potential projects in future to ensure that all stakeholders, directly involved or otherwise, were aware of the approach that was being taken.

this is not a kibble bad story in the slightest. It’s simply kibble using their position within smfc for their own financial gain. Glad you agree baz.

 

 

[Doakes]

Agree there are no winners in all of this. It's all a bit embarrassing

AW making wild claims in the press, presumably without getting in touch with anyone at the club first, dick move

Banning AW from the club, a massive overreaction

The timing as well, before a hugely important game against Hearts, ridiculous  

[Brilliant Disguise]

2 hours ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Whether you like AW or not the moronic comments about him on social media detract from anyone else putting their name forward to do this role. End result we end up with people on the board who are incapable of running a business and making business decisions for the greater good of the club and not their ego, self interest or incestuous connection to other businesses.

 

2 hours ago, billyg said:

Bollocks. Wardrop is dragging the clubs name through the mud for selfish reasons. He thought he could resign from the board , and then call them out , and everyone would swallow it. Trouble for him is , everyone who has seen how he operates knows he's an arsehole , a dangerous arsehole at that. 

 

Exactly !!! Why would you bother get involved when there are so many self proclaimed experts. Is he wrong on his assertions. Thats what i want to know irrespective whether he is as you claim an arsehole