VAR.

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, WeeBud said:

Out of interest Baz what were the stats pre VAR for positive/negative impacts on games through mistakes made be referees…..I’m not arguing for or against VAR but with nothing to measure it against your point loses strength.

Indeed.

Previously all you has was conspiracy theories and Chinese whispers.

VAR has been used for just over a year and a half and most people with common sense see that it's the interpretation by officials that's the problem which I'd hope will improves with time. 

It's only the "errors" that seem to be picked up, not the hundreds of correct calls. 

For me the time it takes seems inexplicable at times, and again, not ALL the time, I fail to see why it takes so long.

PS I watched the semi final of the Champions League last night, as I recall not one intervention from VAR all down to a superb refereeing performance. 

Edited May 1, 2024 by faraway saint

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Indeed.

Previously all you has was conspiracy theories and Chinese whispers.

VAR has been used for just over a year and a half and most people with common sense see that it's the interpretation by officials that's the problem which I'd hope will improves with time. 

It's only the "errors" that seem to be picked up, not the hundreds of correct calls. 

For me the time it takes seems inexplicable at times, and again, not ALL the time, I fail to see why it takes so long.

PS I watched the semi final of the Champions League last night, as I recall not one intervention from VAR all down to a superb refereeing performance. 

I really don’t get this argument. The officials aren’t changing anytime soon. We aren’t going to have more competent people using VAR. 
 

The point ‘VAR is fine, it’s the people’ doesn’t really make any sense to me because you’ll never have VAR without the people. If they aren’t competent enough to use it, then it won’t get better. 
 

Pretty much any official using VAR in Scotland has officiated football for many years. In what way are they going to get better at making calls? Just need to look at the wrong calls against us, absolute basic stuff they haven’t called correctly. 
 

I appreciate VAR has gotten more decisions right than wrong, but at what cost? 
- holds up the game 

- missing easy, match changing decisions 

- takes so much focus away from the actual football 

- impacts match experience for those that attend (celebrating goals for example) 

- doesn’t make the game any fairer in normal play decisions that can lead to goals (for example corners and free kicks). 
 

It honestly baffles me after this time that people are still standing by VAR. We’ve seen it, it’s a car crash. 

[guinness]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Indeed.

Previously all you has was conspiracy theories and Chinese whispers.

VAR has been used for just over a year and a half and most people with common sense see that it's the interpretation by officials that's the problem which I'd hope will improves with time. 

It's only the "errors" that seem to be picked up, not the hundreds of correct calls. 

For me the time it takes seems inexplicable at times, and again, not ALL the time, I fail to see why it takes so long.

PS I watched the semi final of the Champions League last night, as I recall not one intervention from VAR all down to a superb refereeing performance. 

Even the : hundreds of correct calls: are a matter of opinion. Many that VAR say are correct would be disputed by  many people. 

[stlucifer]

As far as I'm concerned, VAR is only a positive addition to those, like fartaway, who watch football on the the box, not in the stadium. It's almost an extension to the new fad of reality TV. It takes away from the match day experience. It was meant to reduce the number of wrong/controversial decisions but it's done the opposite. Even in the leagues where they have the cash to fund it properly it doesn't improve the game. It's time to ditch this and admit it is an expensive failure.

[WeeBud]

9 hours ago, stlucifer said:

As far as I'm concerned, VAR is only a positive addition to those, like fartaway, who watch football on the the box, not in the stadium. It's almost an extension to the new fad of reality TV. It takes away from the match day experience. It was meant to reduce the number of wrong/controversial decisions but it's done the opposite. Even in the leagues where they have the cash to fund it properly it doesn't improve the game. It's time to ditch this and admit it is an expensive failure.

Controversial I'll give you but the bit in bold is nonsense.....do you really reckon in a normal quarterly block there'd only be ten obvious errors. I'm not sure how I feel about VAR but I do feel the implementation could be better and wish we could hear the on/off field discussions a bit more like they do in rugby. At least then we'd know about the content and context of their decision making.

 

[faraway saint]

10 hours ago, stlucifer said:

As far as I'm concerned, VAR is only a positive addition to those, like fartaway, who watch football on the the box, not in the stadium. It's almost an extension to the new fad of reality TV. It takes away from the match day experience. It was meant to reduce the number of wrong/controversial decisions but it's done the opposite. Even in the leagues where they have the cash to fund it properly it doesn't improve the game. It's time to ditch this and admit it is an expensive failure.

Well your poor wife is one of them TV watching fans as she's obviously had enough of your dullard comments during the game. 

Also, what @WeeBud says, utter nonsense. 

[linwood buddie]

EPL clubs to vote on scrapping VAR from next season after Wolves made the request , would love to see it scrapped everywhere but don’t think UEFA and FIFA will allow it somehow.

[bazil85]

3 hours ago, linwood buddie said:

EPL clubs to vote on scrapping VAR from next season after Wolves made the request , would love to see it scrapped everywhere but don’t think UEFA and FIFA will allow it somehow.

Well done Wolves, a very sensible & positive move. Would be great if the vote gets enough support. Other leagues would follow pretty quickly I imagine. 
 

Sadly I don’t see it passing as clubs will likely be influenced by the league, UEFA & FIFA. 

[stlucifer]

The first thing Double Dick does is pass the buck on the most controversial topic in Scottish football.

 Ex-Premier League referee Jon Moss appointed SFA VAR manager - BBC Sport

 

VAR will NEVER work in Scotland as we can't afford the infrastructure or the quality of the officials needed to run it.

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

The first thing Double Dick does is pass the buck on the most controversial topic in Scottish football.

 Ex-Premier League referee Jon Moss appointed SFA VAR manager - BBC Sport

 

VAR will NEVER work in Scotland as we can't afford the infrastructure or the quality of the officials needed to run it.

Pass the buck?

It is trying, and improvements are required, to improve the current situation.

Only a fool couldn't see that. 

 

[stlucifer]

I refuse, ABSOLUTELY refuse to take you back off ignore fartaway, but let me guess. You probably said something like, "You don't agree with me so you're wrong/ you're stupid, because I know far more than anyone about anything and, just to be contrary, I think Collum is a god who knows everything because he agrees with me". Am I close?

[antrin]

40 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I refuse, ABSOLUTELY refuse to take you back off ignore fartaway, but let me guess. You probably said something like, "You don't agree with me so you're wrong/ you're stupid, because I know far more than anyone about anything and, just to be contrary, I think Collum is a god who knows everything because he agrees with me". Am I close?

Signed in, simply to support your understanding of the shite efforts from the never-SMISA-attending, ex-*** (a deid club)’s posts.

obviously I also put him on ignore once I’d been subjected to his shite.

i gave up on this forum a while ago. Pop in (anonymously) to see if there is understanding of anything St Mirren related.

There are glimmers but mostly….  it’s still all about him. And that's shite. (Did I mention that?(

 

i wish you well St Lucifer - great poster.

[faraway saint]

7 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I refuse, ABSOLUTELY refuse to take you back off ignore fartaway, but let me guess. You probably said something like, "You don't agree with me so you're wrong/ you're stupid, because I know far more than anyone about anything and, just to be contrary, I think Collum is a god who knows everything because he agrees with me". Am I close?

That's right, you keep telling yourself you have me on ignore.

 

6 hours ago, antrin said:

Signed in, simply to support your understanding of the shite efforts from the never-SMISA-attending, ex-*** (a deid club)’s posts.

obviously I also put him on ignore once I’d been subjected to his shite.

i gave up on this forum a while ago. Pop in (anonymously) to see if there is understanding of anything St Mirren related.

There are glimmers but mostly….  it’s still all about him. And that's shite. (Did I mention that?(

 

i wish you well St Lucifer - great poster.

Oh, you're still lurking about,. but have nothing to offer apart from your usual bile.

Littered with errors, I suspect one shandy too many but that's ok, it doesn't matter, like you. 

Never mind, tick tock. 

[HSS]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/st-mirren-sfa-removed-var-34599843

[shull]

2 hours ago, HSS said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/st-mirren-sfa-removed-var-34599843

We'll done St Mirren 

This week's Gold Medal Winners at the Victim Olympics.

Overtaking Celtic and Sevco on the way to victory .

We should really be concentrating 100 % on trying to defeat Hearts in the Scottish Cup.

[shull]

 

[HSS]

Utd join us in being unhappy with VAR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4gw8q5vwexo

[beyond our ken]

That is quite an aggressive stance by United

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, HSS said:

Utd join us in being unhappy with VAR

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4gw8q5vwexo

So, who are they referring to in this part......................

It added some decisions "appear to be based on the opinions of panel members who, for the most part, lack significant expertise in the laws of the game."

[HSS]

 

[bazil85]

Recent poll of fans of top flight English clubs. 

Some of the outcomes 

- 75% of those polled want VAR binned 

- 85% of match-going fans “strongly disagreed” that “VAR decisions are generally resolved in a reasonable amount of time”

- 85% of match-going fans “strongly disagreed” with the notion that “VAR makes watching football more enjoyable”

- Only 18% agreed that “VAR has improved the overall accuracy of refereeing decisions”.

- 79% “strongly disagreed” with the suggestion “that the match-going experience is better with VAR”.

At a recent SMISA meeting & the continued message from the SPFL & SFA is, we want to work to make VAR better. To make it less impactful on match experiences & faster at more accurate decision making. 
These results are based on a technological investment in the EPL we are nowhere near. If this is the view of fans in the EPL with the gold standard tech,  what chance have we got for meaningful improvements in the short to medium term? 
 

The issues of officials competence & bias are also really clear on social media. That for me is a red flag for changing our officials or upskilling (not that it is on the cards anyway) 

For me it’s time for a fan led vote on retaining or binning VAR. If people want to keep it or not, surely there’s no debate that the fairest way is to let the democratic views of your biggest stakeholders (the fans) decide?  

Edited March 30 by bazil85

[Scott-Leeds]

BIN IT 

[lenziebud]

37 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Recent poll of fans of top flight English clubs. 

Some of the outcomes 

- 75% of those polled want VAR binned 

- 85% of match-going fans “strongly disagreed” that “VAR decisions are generally resolved in a reasonable amount of time”

- 85% of match-going fans “strongly disagreed” with the notion that “VAR makes watching football more enjoyable”

- Only 18% agreed that “VAR has improved the overall accuracy of refereeing decisions”.

- 79% “strongly disagreed” with the suggestion “that the match-going experience is better with VAR”.

At a recent SMISA meeting & the continued message from the SPFL & SFA is, we want to work to make VAR better. To make it less impactful on match experiences & faster at more accurate decision making. 
These results are based on a technological investment in the EPL we are nowhere near. If this is the view of fans in the EPL with the gold standard tech,  what chance have we got for meaningful improvements in the short to medium term? 
 

The issues of officials competence & bias are also really clear on social media. That for me is a red flag for changing our officials or upskilling (not that it is on the cards anyway) 

For me it’s time for a fan led vote on retaining or binning VAR. If people want to keep it or not, surely there’s no debate that the fairest way is to let the democratic views of your biggest stakeholders (the fans) decide?  

VAR is the engame of fans, players, managers and media never accepting decisions and that referees are human. So we end up with the utter hell of VAR.

Referees are the best they have ever been in terms of fitness and constant review of their decisions. The game is 1000 times faster and players way fitter than they were in the past so getting decisions pefect gets harder. TV reviews decision down to the last millimeter and last frame. Refs and assistants get 1 look.

So if VAR is ever taken away and it won't be you just end up back at square one.

I hate VAR personally and would love to bin it but the same old refs are biased, incompetent, better in the old days etc would just start again. Never ending

[bazil85]

16 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

VAR is the engame of fans, players, managers and media never accepting decisions and that referees are human. So we end up with the utter hell of VAR.

Referees are the best they have ever been in terms of fitness and constant review of their decisions. The game is 1000 times faster and players way fitter than they were in the past so getting decisions pefect gets harder. TV reviews decision down to the last millimeter and last frame. Refs and assistants get 1 look.

So if VAR is ever taken away and it won't be you just end up back at square one.

I hate VAR personally and would love to bin it but the same old refs are biased, incompetent, better in the old days etc would just start again. Never ending

I think a lot of fans did have this view. Almost that VAR was the lesser of two evils on making decisions & ref competence. Indeed, when it was introduced, it passed a SMISA fan vote. 
 

But we are now in a position we weren’t before. We can see football with & without VAR. I would wager that if there was a fan vote now on binning it, it would pass as some fans have changed their position now that they can see just how bad VAR is. (EPL poll does seem to back that) 
 

For me a vote achieves the endgame. If fans vote keep it, then that’s it done. No point arguing & debating the keep/ retain because it’s democratic on what VAR actually looks like. 

If they vote & say bin it. We chalk it down to an education piece & it (hopefully) never darkens our door again. 
 

Two absolute key things if there was a vote for me though. 
1. Clubs strongly advised to engage fans on how they vote (season ticket/ ownership polls, etc) 

2. Fans are fully informed that they’re voting on what VAR ACTUALLY IS. Not on pie in the sky, empty promises & wishes of far better technology & unbias/ better trained officials. That is simply, NOT in the plans for VAR in Scotland.

[Scott-Leeds]

For me a vote achieves the endgame. If fans vote keep it, then that’s it done. No point arguing & debating the keep/ retain because it’s democratic on what VAR actually looks like. 

If they vote & say bin it. We chalk it down to an education piece & it (hopefully) never darkens our door again. 
 

^^^
Don't bet on the Indy mob accepting it 😀

Like you say, ask the fans , accept the decision, end of 

Edited March 30 by Scott-Leeds