The Final - England v Spain 14/7/24

[faraway saint]

23 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

You could add America to this. It's not their major sport but I think, if they continue on the trajectory, they will be serious contenders in  a decade or so purely due to the pool of players they will have.

America are already serious contenders according to the world rankings where they are 11th. 

They have spent billions on the basic infrastructure and their facilities are second to none NOT purely due to the pool of players they have. 

Edited June 20, 2024 by faraway saint

[faraway saint]

16 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

There is also the question of strength throughout the team, for instance when was the last time Scotland had a good defence, midfield and attack in the same 11, 1974 or 78??

Possibly as we had a player, Dalglish, who could walk into almost any team in the world and a single world class player can elevate a decent team to a very good team. Even then we failed miserably at major finals. 

The fairly recent success that Wales have tasted was largely, IMO, down to Bale.

We haven't had a player like any of the two above for many a year. 

[stlucifer]

22 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

There is also the question of strength throughout the team, for instance when was the last time Scotland had a good defence, midfield and attack in the same 11, 1974 or 78??

AFAIC, in 1974, we were naïve. IF we hadn't played Zaire before Yugoslavia we would have known what was needed and I really think that squad was capable of going deep into the competition. We had even better players in '78 but we fecked it up thinking we were big time Charlies and assuming we were going to win.  

[shull]

Scotland's National Sport is alcohol.

Many many Scottish people are so happy and proud that they can drink bucketloads then boast that they were f**king wasted the previous night.

[StanleySaint]

15 minutes ago, shull said:

Scotland's National Sport is alcohol.

Many many Scottish people are so happy and proud that they can drink bucketloads then boast that they were f**king wasted the previous night.

I've got a Master's Degree in history so I'm qualified to make sweeping statements with little basis in fact 🙂 what's your background.

[stlucifer]

3 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

I've got a Master's Degree in history so I'm qualified to make sweeping statements with little basis in fact 🙂 what's your background.

He's drunk

[faraway saint]

Just now, stlucifer said:

He's drunk

Very rare, something amusing, well done. 

[faraway saint]

Spain 1-0 Italy, should be 3 or 4 as Spain have been all over them.

It took an OG, another one, to break the deadlock.

 

[shull]

12 hours ago, shull said:

Tally 

1/15

1/18

[shull]

Friday Guesses 

Slovakia 3 Ukraine 0 

Poland 2 Austria 2 

Holland 2 France 2

[beyond our ken]

13 hours ago, stlucifer said:

AFAIC, in 1974, we were naïve. IF we hadn't played Zaire before Yugoslavia we would have known what was needed and I really think that squad was capable of going deep into the competition. We had even better players in '78 but we fecked it up thinking we were big time Charlies and assuming we were going to win.  

The midfield in 78 was built around Don Masson and Bruce Rioch, both of whom had already peaked and were in obvious decline in the matches in Argentina.   Hard domestic seasons and a mental home international campaign were steps too far for those two so close to a world cup.  Most of the other midfielders were getting on as well.  McLeod also passed over players in the ascendency such as John Robertson, who was finally proving his class.  Apparently Mcleod never went to see an opponent before a game and was totally blindsided by the likes of Cubillas who had already shown his class in previous campaigns.  It really was mostly Ally's fault but apparently Ernie Walker's handling of the Willie Johnston episode took the heart right out the team.

Potentially one of our best defenders was Derek Johnstone who was also scoring freely was underutilised although he was at the start of his serious drinking by then and Gordon McQueen was injured.  By that time, Iain Munro really should have been in the side.  I think the players who missed it might have pulled things back to earth a wee bit.  McLeod was later considered to be displaying the early signs of the dementia that got to him only a few years later.

[stlucifer]

59 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

The midfield in 78 was built around Don Masson and Bruce Rioch, both of whom had already peaked and were in obvious decline in the matches in Argentina.   Hard domestic seasons and a mental home international campaign were steps too far for those two so close to a world cup.  Most of the other midfielders were getting on as well.  McLeod also passed over players in the ascendency such as John Robertson, who was finally proving his class.  Apparently Mcleod never went to see an opponent before a game and was totally blindsided by the likes of Cubillas who had already shown his class in previous campaigns.  It really was mostly Ally's fault but apparently Ernie Walker's handling of the Willie Johnston episode took the heart right out the team.

Potentially one of our best defenders was Derek Johnstone who was also scoring freely was underutilised although he was at the start of his serious drinking by then and Gordon McQueen was injured.  By that time, Iain Munro really should have been in the side.  I think the players who missed it might have pulled things back to earth a wee bit.  McLeod was later considered to be displaying the early signs of the dementia that got to him only a few years later.

There was so much wrong in that campaign. Was it not reported that the team base was a bit of a shambles and the SFA treated the players like second class citizens. Though I'm sure John Robertson was in the squad. Derek Johnstone was essentially a striker who had scored 38 goals for Rangers so, yes, he should have been used better though we had Joe Jordon as our No. 9. And Rioch and Masson were 30 and 31 respectively so hardly over the hill.

Edited June 21, 2024 by stlucifer

[beyond our ken]

4 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

There was so much wrong in that campaign. Was it not reported that the team base was a bit of a shambles and the SFA treated the players like second class citizens. Though I'm sure John Robertson was in the squad. Derek Johnstone was essentially a striker who had scored 38 goals for Rangers so, yes, he should have been used better though we had Joe Jordon as our No. 9. And Rioch and Masson were 30 and 31 respectively so hardly over the hill.

As far as Rioch and Masson were concerned, their legs told a different story to the one told by the calendar.  They simply weren't at the races in any game.

John Robertson did get the whole game against Iran, but I think that was only because Johnston was already home

[stlucifer]

1 minute ago, beyond our ken said:

As far as Rioch and Masson were concerned, their legs told a different story to the one told by the calendar.  They simply weren't at the races in any game.

John Robertson did get the whole game against Iran, but I think that was only because Johnston was already home

I think the performance of both can't be looked at in isolation as, as a group Scotland underperformed. I believe the were both subbed in the first game and didn't play in the second so I suppose McLeod must have felt they lacked something. Rioch did come back in v Holland when, at 3-1, the buggers made us all start to believe again. One more goal. One more f'n goal. Only for Rep to spoil the dream once more.

[Saint@Johnstone]

Although I didn’t see other than the goals from the England game, they have 4 points from 6 , more or less through and still have the likely easiest game to play. Their fans are calling for the managers head generally,as expectations are very high. In contrast, Scotland, with one point from six, and having suffered their worst ever euro defeat, have one game left to salvage things. It’s been made clear that 4 points was the expectation for qualification. Hope they can get the win v Hungary, but it looks like , if they do, Spain lies in wait. 😬

[beyond our ken]

3 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I think the performance of both can't be looked at in isolation as, as a group Scotland underperformed. I believe the were both subbed in the first game and didn't play in the second so I suppose McLeod must have felt they lacked something. Rioch did come back in v Holland when, at 3-1, the buggers made us all start to believe again. One more goal. One more f'n goal. Only for Rep to spoil the dream once more.

I don't know why I'm going through all this again.  That campaign got me down for months after

Scotland owe us big time for that

[beyond our ken]

2 minutes ago, Saint@Johnstone said:

Although I didn’t see other than the goals from the England game, they have 4 points from 6 , more or less through and still have the likely easiest game to play. Their fans are calling for the managers head generally,as expectations are very high. In contrast, Scotland, with one point from six, and having suffered their worst ever euro defeat, have one game left to salvage things. It’s been made clear that 4 points was the expectation for qualification. Hope they can get the win v Hungary, but it looks like , if they do, Spain lies in wait. 😬

And we should worry about Spain?  They will probably throw a point or 3 just to avoid us

[stlucifer]

39 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I don't know why I'm going through all this again.  That campaign got me down for months after

Scotland owe us big time for that

I know. Am away fur a swallie noo!

[stlucifer]

43 minutes ago, Saint@Johnstone said:

Although I didn’t see other than the goals from the England game, they have 4 points from 6 , more or less through and still have the likely easiest game to play. Their fans are calling for the managers head generally,as expectations are very high. In contrast, Scotland, with one point from six, and having suffered their worst ever euro defeat, have one game left to salvage things. It’s been made clear that 4 points was the expectation for qualification. Hope they can get the win v Hungary, but it looks like , if they do, Spain lies in wait. 😬

I would think the English fans were watching it through nervy fingers and the team walked away with the point in a swag bag.

[faraway saint]

Holland 0-0 France, half time.

Disappointing overall, in flashes some great play but at other times, well, the passing is woeful.

The Dutch are powderpuff up front and the French overplay it at times.

Like many of these games it needs a goal. 

Must say, another very good referee, allowing play to go on wherever possible and no theatrics. 

Oh, also VAR has been almost non existent, proving it not VAR that causes some issues, more the people in charge. 

[guinness]

24 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Holland 0-0 France, half time.

Disappointing overall, in flashes some great play but at other times, well, the passing is woeful.

The Dutch are powderpuff up front and the French overplay it at times.

Like many of these games it needs a goal. 

Must say, another very good referee, allowing play to go on wherever possible and no theatrics. 

Oh, also VAR has been almost non existent, proving it not VAR that causes some issues, more the people in charge. 

Really really boring. Some great skills on show but  absolute!y no intent. 

[guinness]

Holland score but VAR chalked it off because of an offside interfering with the goalkeeper who made  no attempt to dive. Complete crap. 

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, guinness said:

Holland score but VAR chalked it off because of an offside interfering with the goalkeeper who made  no attempt to dive. Complete crap. 

Overall I agree that it was harsh BUT he was, despite Jermaine Jenus saying otherwise, in the line of sight of the goalie.

The bigger problem for me was, as it usually is, the time it took. 

[guinness]

12 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Overall I agree that it was harsh BUT he was, despite Jermaine Jenus saying otherwise, in the line of sight of the goalie.

The bigger problem for me was, as it usually is, the time it took. 

He was , if anything, behind t he goalie. I know you are an advocate of VAR but honestly I think you will be in a minority of 1 if you think that was offside. 

[faraway saint]

27 minutes ago, guinness said:

He was , if anything, behind t he goalie. I know you are an advocate of VAR but honestly I think you will be in a minority of 1 if you think that was offside. 

Eh? 

He, clearly WAS offside, the issue was if he was interfering with play.