The Final - England v Spain 14/7/24

[shull]

14 hours ago, shull said:

Friday Guesses 

Slovakia 3 Ukraine 0 

Poland 2 Austria 2 

Holland 2 France 2

1/21

 

[StanleySaint]

9 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Eh? 

He, clearly WAS offside, the issue was if he was interfering with play. 

Exactly and they did comment on the fact that it wasn't a coincidence thst the time it took was related to the English officials looking at it, same issue we've highlighted before, nothing wrong with VAR just who operates it.

[faraway saint]

8 minutes ago, StanleySaint said:

Exactly and they did comment on the fact that it wasn't a coincidence thst the time it took was related to the English officials looking at it, same issue we've highlighted before, nothing wrong with VAR just who operates it.

I heard that it was close on 5 minutes, really?

Unnecessary, albeit this instance was less than straight forward.

FWIW I don't think he was interfering with play enough to chalk off the goal.  

The side view did look as if he was close enough to be a factor in the goalies lack of movement but the view from behind the goal showed quite a distance between them and it was more than likely the goalie wasn't set to move enough to stop the shot.

Right, I'm away to wash my referee kit, another 3 tight games to officiate today. 

[shull]

Saturday Guesses 

Georgia 1 Czech Republic 0 

Turkey 2 Portugal 2 

 Belgium 1 Rumania 1

[StanleySaint]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

I heard that it was close on 5 minutes, really?

Unnecessary, albeit this instance was less than straight forward.

FWIW I don't think he was interfering with play enough to chalk off the goal.  

The side view did look as if he was close enough to be a factor in the goalies lack of movement but the view from behind the goal showed quite a distance between them and it was more than likely the goalie wasn't set to move enough to stop the shot.

Right, I'm away to wash my referee kit, another 3 tight games to officiate today. 

Haha, that's a sight I don't want to see, I agree I don't think it should have been chalked off but it didn't need the length of time it took to discuss it, is there no monitor at these games, quickest thing would have been have a look and make a quick decision on the field but hey hoo few games down and only 2 moments of concern for VAR vast improvement.

[shull]

The Georgia V Czech Republic match sums up men's professional. Absolutely shite.

Non stop diving and cheating in every match.

Association football is fecking ruined.

The total jessification of what was the Beautiful Game.

 

Mega cringe at most of the goal celebrations also.

Feck the Euros 

Feck the teams and feck all the players.

Game over until VAR intervenes to send the jessie culprits off and the cnuts get suspended for many matches 

[faraway saint]

Portugal 2-0 Turkey, half time.

Yet ANOTHER OG, and what a disaster from the Turkish defender.

How many OG's have been scored so far, seems like 4 or 5 anyway? 

[faraway saint]

Croatia 1-0 Italy, Croatia, rightly, get a VAR penalty but the national hero Modric misses then from the resulting clearance Croatia get the ball back in and, who else, Modric scores. 

56 mins.

[faraway saint]

Holland 2-2 Austria, been a great 2nd half

Oh, just as I type the Austrians score a cracker.

They, Austria, have been a breath of fresh air and well worth a watch,.

81 mins. 

[faraway saint]

England 0-0 Slovenia, half time.

The first 25, or so, minutes England were very poor, slow, safe and no one really willing, or capable, of taking a chance.

The last 20 minutes livened up a wee bit, but not a lot.

Slovenia have had their moments so 0-0 probably about right. 

[faraway saint]

9 hours ago, faraway saint said:

England 0-0 Slovenia, half time.

The first 25, or so, minutes England were very poor, slow, safe and no one really willing, or capable, of taking a chance.

The last 20 minutes livened up a wee bit, but not a lot.

Slovenia have had their moments so 0-0 probably about right. 

Despite upping their game after half time, and introducing several subs England stutter over the line.

What's gone wrong, hard to say but they are certainly struggling.

2 goals in 3 games in a group that's anything but spectacular.

[stlucifer]

Well. Agent Southgate is not quite doing his job right. But he's getting there. Hopefully.  Their coming home,..... empty handed.

Edited June 26, 2024 by stlucifer

[WeeBud]

Home from a very memorable and fun couple of weeks at the Euro's. Ultimately Scotland weren't good enough but the fact that with only one minute left of our final group game we were still in with a shout of going through (I know it's best placed third place now but that's the rules) against three countries, arguably better opposition than ourselves, meant we were at least competitive. Reality is we don't have the quality and depth of squad for Tournament football at the moment and the loss of key players through injury (stupid suspensions too), left us weakened, I think we saw what a big miss Dykes was in the end. In the Hungary game we saw the number of good chances they created when we went more open in the last 15 minutes, had we started like that I think we'd have been out before HT, the Swiss game was an opportunity missed.

Campervan was brilliant and a fantastic way to tour a country......

 

[HSS]

Have to disagree Wee Bud

We went into the Germany game expecting to lose

We showed a bit more ambition in the Swiss game by playing for a draw

The game against Hungary we didn’t go hunting for a goal until time added on

Clarkes tatics were shocking and he should be shown the door immediately 

 

[WeeBud]

23 minutes ago, HSS said:

Have to disagree Wee Bud

We went into the Germany game expecting to lose

We showed a bit more ambition in the Swiss game by playing for a draw

The game against Hungary we didn’t go hunting for a goal until time added on

Clarkes tatics were shocking and he should be shown the door immediately 

 

Happy to disagree HSS just my opinion, sacking the guy who just got us qualification to two Euro's back to back and promotions in the Nations Leagues is just folly. Give him the next Nations League games, baring in mind we're in a very tough group, and see how we go. If it's a disaster then fair enough to empty him then.

[beyond our ken]

33 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Home from a very memorable and fun couple of weeks at the Euro's. Ultimately Scotland weren't good enough but the fact that with only one minute left of our final group game we were still in with a shout of going through (I know it's best placed third place now but that's the rules) against three countries, arguably better opposition than ourselves, meant we were at least competitive. Reality is we don't have the quality and depth of squad for Tournament football at the moment and the loss of key players through injury (stupid suspensions too), left us weakened, I think we saw what a big miss Dykes was in the end. In the Hungary game we saw the number of good chances they created when we went more open in the last 15 minutes, had we started like that I think we'd have been out before HT, the Swiss game was an opportunity missed.

Campervan was brilliant and a fantastic way to tour a country......

 

I disagree with that bit, it's not a fact at all.  We never troubled them at all.  The moment for action had passed and we should have changed at 70 minutes and we should have used the stoppage to tell the team to really go for it and get stuck in as soon as the ball was placed for the restart.  I think that would have finally rattled the Hungarians (we hadn't done that anyway).

We were out with 30 minutes to go and it was irrecoverable from 20 minutes out, I'm afraid

[beyond our ken]

3 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Happy to disagree HSS just my opinion, sacking the guy who just got us qualification to two Euro's back to back and promotions in the Nations Leagues is just folly. Give him the next Nations League games, baring in mind we're in a very tough group, and see how we go. If it's a disaster then fair enough to empty him then.

The Nations league has proved to be a lifeline and I don't think we can leave it to chance to risk a "disaster" (it's only fitba' after all).

If Clarke wants to stay and can give a cogent argument to his employers as to how he intends to respond then I'd say trust him but ask him for a succession plan and a longer-term strategy for the national side.

The real problem is, of course, the state of youth development and coaching in Scotland and every person in charge of the SFA should just take a hike right now so that we can get some professionals in who can sort it out for us-definitely not prats like Malky McKay.  I have heard great things about the dutch guy who set up the pyramid structure at Queens Park over the last few preceding years.  He left to go to a high-profile role in his homeland but that is the calibre we need and maybe there will be some hope in 7 years or so from the current crop of 12-14 year olds who are still saveable and might deliver for Scottish football in the next decade.

[HSS]

32 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Happy to disagree HSS just my opinion, sacking the guy who just got us qualification to two Euro's back to back and promotions in the Nations Leagues is just folly. Give him the next Nations League games, baring in mind we're in a very tough group, and see how we go. If it's a disaster then fair enough to empty him then.

I can understand you getting caught up in the atmosphere of the occasion and making your glass half full but we were rotten mate Clark let the Country down with his tatics and should be right out the door 

[WeeBud]

33 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I disagree with that bit, it's not a fact at all.  We never troubled them at all.  The moment for action had passed and we should have changed at 70 minutes and we should have used the stoppage to tell the team to really go for it and get stuck in as soon as the ball was placed for the restart.  I think that would have finally rattled the Hungarians (we hadn't done that anyway).

We were out with 30 minutes to go and it was irrecoverable from 20 minutes out, I'm afraid

Not to be pedantic but the only thing it is is a fact, we were still in a position where we were in with a shout of going through.......I do accept that we could have changed things earlier.

[WeeBud]

27 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

The Nations league has proved to be a lifeline and I don't think we can leave it to chance to risk a "disaster" (it's only fitba' after all).

If Clarke wants to stay and can give a cogent argument to his employers as to how he intends to respond then I'd say trust him but ask him for a succession plan and a longer-term strategy for the national side.

The real problem is, of course, the state of youth development and coaching in Scotland and every person in charge of the SFA should just take a hike right now so that we can get some professionals in who can sort it out for us-definitely not prats like Malky McKay.  I have heard great things about the dutch guy who set up the pyramid structure at Queens Park over the last few preceding years.  He left to go to a high-profile role in his homeland but that is the calibre we need and maybe there will be some hope in 7 years or so from the current crop of 12-14 year olds who are still saveable and might deliver for Scottish football in the next decade.

I fully agree with your last two paragraphs.

 

 

[WeeBud]

3 minutes ago, HSS said:

I can understand you getting caught up in the atmosphere of the occasion and making your glass half full but we were rotten mate Clark let the Country down with his tatics and should be right out the door 

 

[WeeBud]

Nothing to do with the atmosphere Buddy, just my thoughts based on having watched and played football for over 45 years. I'm happy enough that we see things differently, it's healthy and brings balance. I've followed Scotland home and away for 30 years and felt way more despondent at various times, that said I didn't think Craig Brown or Strachan should have been emptied so I do have previous form for my position 😂😂

[stlucifer]

40 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Nothing to do with the atmosphere Buddy, just my thoughts based on having watched and played football for over 45 years. I'm happy enough that we see things differently, it's healthy and brings balance. I've followed Scotland home and away for 30 years and felt way more despondent at various times, that said I didn't think Craig Brown or Strachan should have been emptied so I do have previous form for my position 😂😂

The atmosphere was the ONLY plus in a dismal campaign. Clarke didn't set the team up to win in the third game. Or the players didn't want to do it for him. (Even worse).  If he had he would have started with two up front and had the attacking players in the team, some of whom he didn't even want in the squad, on. He fecked it up, royally.

Craig Brown's race had been run and he left Vogts with a poison chalice as he refused to blood in the youth.

I know this is never going to be a popular view but, as many players retired just as he was coming in the door, I wouldn't have minded him staying to the end of his contract with the players he brought in, though he didn't set the heather on fire in his subsequent managerial berths. Working with a squad of fledgling players en masse at international level due to the previous incumbents refusal to bring them in, coaching them for a few months a year? It couldn't have been easy. He, after all, had won the European Championships with Germany and took them to two WC quarter finals, hampered, I believe, by the reunification of the country which must have been circle difficult to square.

Can't argue with the Strachan point though, although Billy Stark remains our most successful manager. 😇

Edited June 26, 2024 by stlucifer

[WeeBud]

17 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

The atmosphere was the ONLY plus in a dismal campaign. Clarke didn't set the team up to win in the third game. Or the players didn't want to do it for him. (Even worse).  If he had he would have started with two up front and had the attacking players in the team, some of whom he didn't even want in the squad, on. He fecked it up, royally.

Craig Brown's race had been run and he left Vogts with a poison chalice as he refused to blood in the youth.

I know this is never going to be a popular view but, as many players retired just as he was coming in the door, I wouldn't have minded him staying to the end of his contract with the players he brought in, though he didn't set the heather on fire in his subsequent managerial berths. Working with a squad of fledgling players en masse at international level due to the previous incumbents refusal to bring them in, coaching them for a few months a year? It couldn't have been easy. He, after all, had won the European Championships with Germany and took them to two WC quarter finals, hampered, I believe, by the reunification of the country which must have been circle difficult to square.

Can't argue with the Strachan point though, although Billy Stark remains our most successful manager. 😇

Again happy to disagree but the second we went with the bit in bold Hungary had four really good chances playing against that formation, they are even more of a counter attacking team than Scotland )and St Mirren for that matter) with far better forward players. My own thoughts are that if we had been more open we'd have been out by Half Time.

Vogts was shite (for us anyway) but definitely came in at a time that the age of the squad was going against us and the quality coming through was nowhere near as good as previously.

BoK was absolutely correct in his assertion that Youth Development and Coaching at that level in Scotland is nowhere near good enough, again only my opinion and others may differ.

My Grandson has already been picked up by Morton as a GK, he is 8 years old and is now being scouted by Rangers, I was asked my opinion by his parents and suggested leaving well alone.....it's madness and with a couple of emotional setbacks he could be lost to any level of football by the time he's a teenager irrespective of what level he may have got to later. There's part of me that's for Pro-Youth and Development but it needs serious restructuring. We rightly rejoice in the likes of McLean and Morgan coming through our academy but how many get booted by the OF and don't go on to anything else because they feel so disheartened and on the scrapheap. The flip of that of course is that more than a few have got into the first team, through the academy from a young age, at St Mirren. However, if you look at the lack of amateur football being played time from 18's onwards it feels like big tome or bust and that not only disheartens so many potential late-bloomers, it also heaps enormous pressure on young kids and takes away their enjoyment of playing and their development within the game.

 

 

[beyond our ken]

53 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Again happy to disagree but the second we went with the bit in bold Hungary had four really good chances playing against that formation, they are even more of a counter attacking team than Scotland )and St Mirren for that matter) with far better forward players. My own thoughts are that if we had been more open we'd have been out by Half Time.

Vogts was shite (for us anyway) but definitely came in at a time that the age of the squad was going against us and the quality coming through was nowhere near as good as previously.

BoK was absolutely correct in his assertion that Youth Development and Coaching at that level in Scotland is nowhere near good enough, again only my opinion and others may differ.

My Grandson has already been picked up by Morton as a GK, he is 8 years old and is now being scouted by Rangers, I was asked my opinion by his parents and suggested leaving well alone.....it's madness and with a couple of emotional setbacks he could be lost to any level of football by the time he's a teenager irrespective of what level he may have got to later. There's part of me that's for Pro-Youth and Development but it needs serious restructuring. We rightly rejoice in the likes of McLean and Morgan coming through our academy but how many get booted by the OF and don't go on to anything else because they feel so disheartened and on the scrapheap. The flip of that of course is that more than a few have got into the first team, through the academy from a young age, at St Mirren. However, if you look at the lack of amateur football being played time from 18's onwards it feels like big tome or bust and that not only disheartens so many potential late-bloomers, it also heaps enormous pressure on young kids and takes away their enjoyment of playing and their development within the game.

 

 

It's been true for decades that Celtic & Rangers sign youth talent, up & coming young players and somewhat older players who are starting to shine purely to deny the smaller clubs the chance to develop their own and over time challenge the duopoly.

My vision for saints would be a sugar-daddy, not like Rossco or similar dumps who use their wealth to sign journeymen and others who are little better to  keep them in a league position,  but to purely to invest in coaches, facilities and to compete with the mad offers that the old firm make to kids just to stifle the opposition.  I'd be happy if that person were to be due a player development cut of any transfer fees as well.

 

I don't know what Haughey gets back from his bankrolling of youth at Queens Park, I doubt he does it for love of the game or the club, but he is doing it right.  A friend's son is an 8 year old training there and Saints have already made an informal approach for him to sign up to our academy, however i really don't know if our set-up is equal to or better than QP