ktf
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Posts posted by ktf
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The irony is that could be a fantastic result for 10000hours if only they would withdraw their bid.
Sorry mate, you've lost me... Howzat?
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Mon you Bud, Screw the Nut ! I will take you and Sid to a BURGH game, You are only doon the Road, And Sid is just a stones through away ? Let's Pray for Liquidation for SMFC , Same as I have never wanted anything to do with this somewhat Shady CIC ?
Burgh... Aye ok mate! If this goes through, I'll be withdrawing all involvement with SMFC. It's the juniors for me from now on!
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If this goes ahead I would seriously consider cancelling direct debits for me and the mrs, withdrawing my 87 club pledge and asking for a season ticket refund. I'd hate to walk away from football but I would think seriously about it.
You're not the only one mate. If there are others, it might be worth doing it as a collective - louder voice. I'm with you.
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I'm watching the Euros tonight. A welcome break from the disgusting shite I've had to read on here today. I'm sickened by the whole thing. Could it really have been a pre-planned fix all this time...?!
C'mon Germany! And if all this proves to be true, f*ck off St Mirren and the SPL, I've supported you for the last time. Think I'll start supporting Athurlie.
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As much as I have disagreed with Somner9 on pretty much every post for the last 2 years, I do agree with him re this thread. The whole thing is a disgrace. I'm seriously considering returning my full season ticket unused to the club as a symbol of protest regarding this.
If this goes ahead, 2 DD mandates will be cancelled and never again will I step foot in St Mirren park.
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Did we ever get to find out the truth about the original mk1 CiC social funders dropping out?
Officially no. Maybe someone should book a surgery appointment and ask them that...
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Aye, bit it wis a sarcastic "seriously? - she just missed out the question mark.
Seriously, comma, interested parties, interobang.
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Do we? Seriously.Of the clubs in the SFL who have expressed an opinion I haven't seen one which looked favourably on Sevco's bid for League entry so, unless Green does go down the "Harlem Globetrotters" route how can the hope to keep a team, any team, together?
The end may be nigh for the blue brigade.
I never thought this was possible, but it looking more and more likely that this is a definite possibility! Yes, there is a huge latent fan-base and a massive brand attraction but if a football team has no league to play in, no rivals, no players and no official association membership - it isn't a football team - it's a pointless company that own even more pointless property that is heading towards administration and liquidation faster than you can say OVD cup!
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Brian Lawson takes a roasting off the cnutcil leader in the PDE:
It looks the two foreign bidders have been reduced to "interested parties" again.
at the quote!And Sid, tut tut!!! "SERIOUSLY interested parties"!
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All we are getting is noise and personal attacks....and some dafties like you have the brass neck to shout about keeping politics out of football. The personal politics in this nonsense is unbelievable.
I've never at any point said that politics should be kept out of football. I don't even know what that phrase is meant to mean - same as saying religion and football don't mix, I'm not really sure what a person means when they say that. All I have said is that I don't trust politicians, that I think it's bonkers that some people are more excited about this "bid" than one that we have 3 years worth of info on and that I don't see at this stage this it is sustainable or viable. Everything else I have said is opinion.
At least I have the common courtesy to admit I am working on opinion and making the rest up.
Guess what... I looked through the constitution too. I also found a lot of issues with it. I have raised the ones that I feel are relevant with the appropriate people in the relevant manner. I have chosen not to bitch about it on here - and for that my views are suddenly less important or informed than yours? Get over yourself - frankly, - I'm embarrassed for you.
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In the name of Christ, please let the season start. I just want to sit on my arse in the West Bank and cheer/groan as St Mirren dazzle/disappoint and we trounce/are trounced by Club 12.
Delete selections as required.
Me too thoroughly disenchanted by the whole thing.
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And another thread about a valid topic descends into bollox about who called who a bawbag.
My point put more succinctly.
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Don't understand what the need is to suppress any debate/discussion on cic matters, and the insult/jibe/abuse that goes with it. If 10000 hours don't want the memebership to have open debate perhaps that needs inserting in the daft constitution. It'd never happen in a co-op!
I actually do think that, to a greater or lesser degree, Somner9 adds something to these forums and this "great" debate. Anything and everything is stronger after being put under pressure and having heat turned on it. This is no different, the CiC/fan ownership/the f**king awful SNP idea/whatever ends up happening to end this shambles, will only be better if it's put under scrutiny now. Ok, a lot of Somner9's contributions could be labelled as mischief-making, irrelevant, belated or whatever, but at least he's doing it and taking an interest.
What I don't get from him though is the constant accusations of abuse... If you look at how I, and many others, are treated by the likes of Chic Slexic [sic] and yet just take it, then perhaps you'd see that it isn't just the pro-CiC folks that can use somewhat forceful language.
I agree, it would help the debate if it was more mature and less aimed at taking pop-shots at every turn, but if this is how it's to be, there's no point crying over it.
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What an odd response.....I am posting that we should allow Brian and Kenny an open platform to present their information. You rant that I have no evidence to that opinion on.........and then agree that there needs to be more information.
Me thinks you need an enema.
No... You have done nothing but rant on and on about how there will be no fan involvement, how we will be stuck with a BoD that we didn't vote for, how we won't be able to away the process or shape the constitution etc, etc. You have as much evidence for that as I have for my opinions on the SNP nonsense move. The only difference is, I have said that mine is an opinion, you're trying to pap yours off as fact, and in the meantime convincing dafter forum members to go along with your hearsay.
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The paragraph quoted exemplifies the issues we are currently facing in terms of bollox being spouted. We have Balfy rightly asking for more information. Within a heartbeat we have the nutter above posting assumptions about how the CIC will work and assumptions about how the mystery cnutcil bid will work. And yet he has absolutely zero evidence to base either of his assumptions on.
We have very little information on how the CIC will work and it changes on a daily basis. No assumptions can be made about what will happen after the deal is approved as 10000 Hours haven't actually committed to anything. Currently the only legal document fans have had visibility of is their direct debit mandates. All we have is ill-informed Internet nutters backing 10000 Hours like it was a St Mirren cup run.
Constitution should always be in play before any financial transactions are made. 10000 Hours are pushing through a draft constitution that fans have had no influence over. They asked for comments and they were provided - and yet no revised constitution is being provided prior to the shareholding being bought. The process is f"k'd. If it was cnutcillors trying to push this through I wonder if ktf would be so blinkered.
Ah, I see! My opinion is bollocks because I have zero evidence to base it on. Yours is perfectly valid because you have... Oh let's see... Zero evidence to base it on.
What I have stated above is just as likely a every attempt at inducing fear that you have posted. Without the information we can't possibly tell, but restoring to rubbishing other posts as "bollox" is simply another way to scaremonger and try to make others look small in the hope that you will somehow look bigger. For all your dislike of councillors, you have a lot in common...
On one point we do agree - there needs to be more information. We need to know a plan, preferably in the form of a timeline, from 10000 Hours on how the first 5 (?) years of their ownership will be mapped out. And it needs to be presented as an agreed upon and voted in documents that is then legally bound. We also need to see guarantees and methods of adjustment or exceptions to certain clauses of the constitution. This also should be presented and voted on. There also probably needs to be more clarity as to what is a quorum of membership for a valid vote and what carries a vote in terms of percentage - it should probably differ for different levels of decisions.
I still believe in the fan ownership concept and I still believe that 10000 Hours can deliver it. But I'm far from completely satisfied with what we currently have. However, I'm almost certain that we'll have more influence this way than with a dark and dingy council making clandestine decisions behind closed door whilst patting each other's backs.
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That's assuming that they are interested in being bought.
They are not SPL clubs and have never had much money - most of them anyway.
Already 2 have said piss off and we can expect more.
Rangers have pissed off many SFL clubs over the years.
They may not even get into Div 3.
I suspect however that a classic Neil Doncaster "package" will be offered whereby the changes talked about will only occur if Rangers are given a home in Div 1.
I think you're right on this, there's a strong, and growing stronger, possibility that "they" whoever they are won't be playing in any league anywhere next season - which may be enough to see them die completely...
On the Doncaster point, he won't last forever! Neither will the SPL. If the clubs can hold out for a few more years, he'll have been sacked or his job will just disappear and we'll all get the reconstruction that we want, without the strings attached. That will be a fine day
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There's some pish poor stuff on this thread regarding the cnutcillors. I am not a fan of any cnutcillor, and certainly not the cnutcil; however if they have proposals that might be to the benefit of St Mirren they should be heard. We thought hard so that a non-St Mirren fan could be heard by the support. Are we really going to turn on fellow St Mirren fans before they have even had the chance to outline their plans?
Personally I think it will be a lot of shite; however we cannot be sure of that until we get to see the information. We went to great lengths to give 10000 Hours a platform to provide us with information and they have chosen to abuse that with scaremongering and hiding behind confidentiality whenever it suits them.
We should keep an open mind on both proposals. The one we do have information on appears to be grossly underfunded at this point in time and the fan empowerment is pish poor. Both bids want their respective organisations to have BoD representation along with fan representation.
Like others I would rather keep the cnutcil and cnutcillors are far away from the club as possible. However, St Mirren's well being should come first in this and surely we owe it to the club to let Brian and Kenny's proposals be heard.
Using the same scaremongering employed by 10000 Hours, if their CIC bid fails then the cnutcil might be the one thing standing between us and the mooted foreign bidders.
Pretty balanced Sid, and all fair enough. Simply because of the nature of their job though, I'd be very wary of councillors being involved in our club. I have already stated my reasons why but maybe the key one of those is that, it might be "Brian and Kenny" today, but it could be "Walter and Billy" or "Finbar and Shaemus" next year. The year after that it could be "Morag and Sheila". None of whom is likely to care too much about the club and may just wonder, when there is zero finances available to do up the town centre or host a fireworks display of fill in pot holes (
), why do the council part own a private football club that is a huge drain on public resources. What may then happen to the club, no-one knows.If nothing else, at least with 10000 Hours we know that in 5,10, 15 years time, the ownership will still be in the hands of the people who care most about the club.
One of the main issues here over the last month or so has been that BII have a clause meaning that GLS, REA need to stay on the CiC and club boards for a period of time - as if this is actually a bad thing! However what we do know is that when that period of time is up, both boards will be democratically elected by the CiC membership from the CiC membership. With a council-run model, we may have some Saints fans on the BoD to start with but in a few years time, we will have no guarantee who will be on the BoD - like I said before, it could be anyone. The joy shown over this council "bid" shows that, even though folks have been able to see the bigger picture and think long term when it come to R*ngers, there is still a terminal and chronic case or short-termism when it comes to the ownership of the club.
If course of all this is based on surmise and guesswork and it's just my opinion - we need to hear officially form the council, maybe if it get the go-ahead (
) we wil... But until we do, I remain very skeptical and see no reason to think anything other than very cynically about this. -
It is becoming fecking tedious now. Dick gets his Internet turned back on after defaulting on a payment but pawning some of his gold chains to cash converters has allowed him to pay his broadband and phone bill and come back on, this means we all need to sit through this brain-hurting pish until he is either banned or can't pay his bill again...
In the mean time, look on the bright side, R*ngers are no more and their zombie newco will not be playing our, and maybe not any, league next season - THAT is good news!!!
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Nothing new here, a whole news article and subsequent thread on Q4 of the questionnaire... Wowzers!
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10000 Hours are hovering in the thread, so perhaps they'll be able to shed some light on this.
It would be interesting to hear something official from either the club, 1000 Hours or the essennpee. There is a lot the 1000 hasn't got right, we can all agree on that, at least they have attempted to engage with the fans and the club and gone public at the earliest opportunity. If this bunch try to sneak in the back door after doing the dirty, it won't be forgotten.
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This article from the ET yesterday gives a bit more info on their intentions.
Edited to provide the link:
Just realised Div had posted that link a few pages back. Still it provides a clear indication that it isn't an intention to support the CiC but to launch a rival bid if they are successful in bringing it down.
Can't see how it's possible though, as it will never be agreed by the rest of the council... It skinks of political manoeuvring i order to win favour with the St Mirren fans - "look we tried to save your club and the Labour didn't want us to!"
Poor, poor show but definitely not beneath this bunch of miscreants.
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This article from the ET yesterday gives a bit more info on their intentions.
The key line for me (in bold) is where he says "if the CiC fails, we'll step in". Well, given that they have done all they can for the last 2 years to attempt to make it fail, it seem to like like it's a rival bid. They just don't have the balls to stand against the CiC publicly so the have worked behind the scenes to try to bring it down so that they can step in. It is cowardly and downright despicable.
ST MIRREN football club could soon be part-owned by Renfrewshire Council.
A 52% share holding in the club is currently up for sale at an estimated £1.5million.
And the SNP opposition on Renfrewshire Council has put forward a motion asking the local authority to pitch in for a share.
The matter will be debated at a meeting of the full council on Thursday.
Renfrewshire Council is now run by Labour, who took the reigns from the SNP at the last election.
It is highly unlikely that the new administration will back the SNP call to spend council cash on the club.
While under the Nationalists, the council had to make about £75m of spending cuts across services to deal with a huge hole in its finances.
But Councillor Brian Lawson said the idea of buying part of the club was viable.
He said: "I have no wish for a council committee to pick the team on a Saturday, but the council should at least investigate how it can play a bigger part in the club.
"It would be a real shame if it was simply taken over by rich foreign owners who were only interested in the value of the ground and the players.
"The council is currently investing around £50m in new sports facilities and the possible addition of the St Mirren stadium and training ground to our facilities is something we should at least look at."
Councillor Kenny MacLaren, also SNP added: "This could be a once in a lifetime opportunity to increase the council's and the community's involvement in the club.
"St Mirren is Paisley and Paisley is St Mirren. Unlike many other football clubs St Mirren is in good financial health with no real debt.
"We have been following with interest the attempts, over the past two years, to launch a community interest company (CIC), and we will wait to see what happens with that bid.
"However we feel that there may be a place for the council to step in if the CIC bid fails. In an ideal world perhaps no one individual or company should have majority control of a club."
St Mirren did not respond to the Evening Times' request for comment.
However, a statement issued by St Mirren on Friday said productive talks have been held with a prospective buyer for the club shares.
The bid has come from the fan-backed '10000hours CIC.'
Because of the ongoing controversy surrounding Rangers and the SPL, however, the statement adds: "It was agreed by both parties that it was prudent to wait for clarity surrounding the commercial revenues of the SPL before committing to any potential deal."
ewan.fergus@ eveningtimes.co.uk
Edited to provide the link:
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/mobile/news/council-could-buddie-up-to-help-buy-saints-shares.17952809
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You're a nutter.
The principle is exactly the same though... His motivation may or may not be pure, but they doesn't make it ok. It's council money. And besides, as I've already said, coincillors are transient - when he's gone, who's to say the next tranch of SRTBs will be trustworthy with our club?!
If the CiC is a risk, this is a million times greater. It genuinely concerns me. Not for political or personal reasons but purely because it has far too many dynamic variables that could alter at any time, all of which could put our club onto seriously dodgy ground.
I'd honestly rather have Massonne than this bunch - SNP, Lab, Lib Dem or anyone.
What We Didn't Get A Vote On!
in 10000Hours Archive
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Well yeah but not if an overwhelming percentage of members withdraw their support. BII would be out. 10000 Hours have no income to buy anything. Company dissolved. End of.