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ktf

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Posts posted by ktf

  1. ktf.....the exposure for Bii is very low. If 10000 Hours defaults on the loan they will still have a 52% shareholding in a football club to sell on. Bii are a very different animal to the previous investors that were involved. For a start they do not do any grants - they provide loans based on capital provided by the big banks.

    The chaps that would have been taking a genuine risk with the £750,000.00 grant have already left the building along with other social funding companies. We never really found out why?

    That's your understanding of it. Mine is that it is unsecured and can't be recalled in a similar way to a bank loan. You waxed lyrical about this very fact back in the mk1 days :)

    We don't know the reason why the essennpee minister refused to sign off the grant funding element in mk1, this is true. But I think you and I are agreed that it was more to do with the Insecurity of the essennpee than of the CiC.

  2. ktf stop making stuff up. The £7,500.00 per month includes single members who are paying more than the tenner a month. REA stated that one of the members has signed up to pay £500.00 per month. That's 50 members off your total already not to mention all the fans that are going to double the tenner - remember the "whatever you can afford" pitch. There is zero evidence of any community groups signing up - only StuDicks Wishaw footy club so far. The community group membership was withdrawn when the grant funding disappeared. The former club directors that will be involved are the ones that are running 10000 Hours at the moment.

    The announcement that none of the consortium Directors would be involved in the club was a big disappointment for me personally. Some fans will be pleased about it. Previous communications were that the consortium guys would be staying on board in some capacity. Yet more shifting sands. Its got to the point were you just can't put any faith in anything being presented to us as it will change within the next press release. Throw the fact that their is no formal documentation, to go along with the verbal blah, blah / online blurb, and billyg's comment is more than fair.

    Ok, so maybe I have presented the facts slightly in favour of my argument. You'd never do that, would you...?

  3. Whether it goes ahead or not getting fans to commit to £5,275.00 per month is a helluvan acheivement. It would be interesting to see the adjustment to the sell price required for this to carry on. Drop the price to £1.2Million? That'd be £75K off the bonus payment for each consortium member.

    REA says there's little chance of that being accepted... My instinct tells me otherwise :)

  4. I can clarify that you ARE confused. Even in your own very odd statement above you blub - "it can be altered and shaped if it isn't what was expected." My issue is that fans have absolutely no idea whatsoever what to expect. I could go on and rip your decision to support the CIC to shreads; however I won't. I have already said that I would respect other fans decisions no matter what they decide to do. It would seem you won't.

    I have every respect for your decision, I am simply pointing out that I believe you are wrong with your assertion that we aren't getting fan ownership and governance and that (even) if we don't get that fully, there is nothing we can do about it. We will, and even if we don't 100%, it can be altered.

    I know what to expect - an interim period where the CiC and the club are steered by experienced and safe hands until respective AGMs where votes can be made on the board members going forward. One or two of the 'safe hands' may need to stay on due to funder requirements but that isn't forever and even if it was, you've said yourself that you would rather have REA involved than not.

    Hey ho, we don't agree and that's fine. Just don't make assertions as fact that are simply opinion :)

  5. It's been a botched attempt all the way along IMO ! Begs the question , if 10000 hours can't get this right , are they worthy of running the club anyway?

    FFS Billy, you know this! 10000 Hours right now is REA and whoever else help him voluntarily. If the deal goes through 10000 Hours will be 750 members, however many successful business people, a good number of community groups and existing and former club directors.

    It's hardly the same thing!

  6. Well what do they think happens when they toddle off to the bank with there paper DD in hand? That it just goes in a huge filing cabinet with everyone else's DDs?

    10khrs effectively becomes the bank, and saves all the details on a secure system, just as the teller at RBS would.

    Couldn't agree more. There is no hope for such technophobe types - my missus is one.

  7. It would be priceless; however that is not being offered.

    Come on John, you know that is what is being offered! You also know that once it is underway it can be altered and shaped if it isn't what was expected.

    The info re the payment is all there, the structure too - more of less. If I get you correctly it's about personnel that you have an issue... Is that right? What I don't get is that you moan about BII insisting that REA/GLS are on the BoD (whichever) for a period but at the same time put up other posts saying you'd be happy for REA et al to sta at the helm.

    Can you do me a favour and clarify your position, as I'm confused.

  8. Back the bid to buy our club - become activly involved - sign your direct debit - or never again moan / complain about how our club is run

    This is what worries me. If we get someone in who is no use and drive the club to the wall, has nothing to invest, passes on debt and undoes all that has been done (I said IF) then there will be complainers and moaners and "sack the board" ers etc - all of whose voices will mean nothing cos the one chance we had was squandered in doubt and dithering.

  9. You are upset that the community aspect of bid MkI is diluted, while many over the last two years voiced concern that it was all about the community and not nearly enough about the football club.

    Aye, you certainly can't please all of the people all of the time.

    Exactly Bud! Although, I think that is a good thing. The differences in the values of our supporters means that no one element would get too much sway. The corporate folks won't, the community folks won't and the "pick the team" types won't either! We have all that is needed to make this work - it just needs people to show a little faith and sign up!!!

  10. Unlike you Bud - You had more Information , You where up so many Anus's, Sucking so many Knob's, preaching The Richard Prayer book and playing with the Webmaster's Toy's - You forgot to involve The Fan ? YOU sir and your CIC,are a Fcking farce ! You and your " Fandans " Fcuk off . SMTID punk.gifpunk.gif

    Well done Charles, you managed to go so long without being abusive and offensive! That must be some kind of record for you, eh Bud!

    I only had the info cos I made the calls, sent the emails and asked to meet. Nothing more than that. I cared about where the club might end up and into who's hands it would fall - so I put in the leg work. You can't blame me for that, can you?

    The truth is, I loved CiC mk1, cos I'm involved with a community group who I thought could really benefit from that kind of relationship with the club and vice versa. I was disappointed when it failed but made a decision to stick by the fan buyout concept. After a subsequent one or two changes, I am even more disappointed with what we have a model for fan buyout. Not because I don't think it will deliver - it will, but because it doesn't require and so doens't have the community at the heart.

    I think this is a crying shame but was probably the only way that it could now be delivered. Anyway, it's really a good thing that we have folks like Chic and Somner (whoever he is) and Sid AND folks like Poz and Div (who really ARE up REA's anus :P ) because the diversity in the support will make fan ownership stronger and healthier, if and when it goes through.

  11. Fair enough Ktf.....History will tell!......I am still in for a tenner btw but I think our chances for a true CIC are long gone.

    I don't disagree. I think it's unfair to claim it's REA's fault... Anyway, you're right, history will tell - it could go either way!

  12. I don't know who you speak of, but in my book anyone thats invested heavily in smfc when we looked like disappearing is entitled to get the value the shares should be worth.

    My issue is the perception that one guy for reasons best known to 10000 hours gets a distinct advantage that perhaps has not been offered to all the 48%.

    if there are two more sizable shareholders getting an equity deal what debt will that add to the cic? and what extension to the term of repayment might it entail?

    I'm glad this is your issue, as it was answered on Thurs eve and on the Q&A thread here. It has been offered to the other main shareholders in the 48% and is open to all shareholders.

    The deal for them would be the same as the one for GLS. They would begin to receive payments when all the social funder loan is paid off and the CiC has a certain amount of funds in reserve (for GLS this is £100k).

    Satisfied...?

  13. I don't really see the sense in stepping out of the protection of the 10000 Hours Q&A thread at this stage of the game. I also see no sense in trying to undermine fans throwing out ideas as they try to make sense of what is a nightmare catch22 scenario for them - not of their own making. Fans are nervous about this and you are going to have to depend on the support of people who still have concerns about 10000 Hours being swayed by the information currently available + the Q&As. No one was looking at the OP posters "proposal" with any level of seriousness. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by attacking their ideas. We have seen similar stuff to that over the last umpteen months and it does no one any good. No doubt you won't be happy with my response in turn - which isn't going to influence anyone. At best debate like that will only radicalise opinions, which is not the best strategy for you with only a few day to go. You need to take the high ground at the moment - get sucked into trading blows with fans trying to talk out their concerns / ideas with other fans will do nothing for you. The light handed guidance and a touch of mis redirection is more important for you at this stage.

    Most fans are taking a step back from the debate at this point out of respect for their fellow fans so that they can make up their own minds. It is going to be a decision based on emotion rather than facts - as facts are lacking. Take a look at the debate on the sale of Love Street - guess what - there wasn't any. There was an initial press conference set up by a few dafties trying to start a stop the sale of Love Street campaign. There was no raging debate - no public meeting after public meeting. It wasn't required as it was crystal clear that we had to move. There were massive risks involved. We'd seen other clubs trying the same thing end up in the shitter financially. Everyone was very nervous about it. However, the bank had a gun held to our head and the club was toiling and needed CPR.

    We went through all that pain - we were all shiting ourselves about whether the BoD would pull off the ground move with us still having a club at the end of it.

    This is a different situation altogether. The club is doing well, better than any other our size. The debt has gone, we have great training facilities, we're looking like we will stick in the SPL for the foreseeable future. The drivers for this are very different.....the BoD can't be arsed any more and want a big pay-off. We are being asked to enter into £1.5Million of debt to fund that. It's not inspirational stuff really is it?

    FFS John, you have too much time on your hands!!! :o

  14. another not adding anything but ridicule

    He invites it. He has offered nothing constructive. He has accepted no answers given to him. He has taken offence at the smallest things. When I have added constructive comments to his thread they are either completely ignored, purposefully twisted or half a sentence is highlighted and argued.

    When he has run out of negative things to say, he jumps on another bandwagon. He used to offer good counter-debate to this topic but sadly that had gone. Is this what the "anti" brigade are reduce to, taking offence at what annoymous Internet aliases post on a football forum?

    I have added plenty, both positive and critical to this debate - so your accusation is entirely false. However on a thread that is all about someone imagninery being pretend offended by other fake people, I will offer very little in the way of serious comment.

  15. And there I think you have hit the nail on the head!!!

    We don't have a fans forum to debate this proposal, the official site closed down the debate, this site is So-ooooo 70's russia it defies belief. " The Communist Party (10000 hours) have entire threads given to them by a party political forum team. Don't get me wrong its up to all to make their minds up, be we on this site are being treated like saps. "Support 10000 Hours or we wil DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Please.... you think the rank and file will continually swallow the brown smelly stuff???

    We're StMirren till we die........ we aint never been 10000 hours for f**kology

    Another day, another bandwagon...

    snore.gif

  16. Remove the level of debt and you remove the pressures on the fan ownership / social funder control element - that is clear. However, it is a plus that social funders are also required. I think the community aspect was a lot stronger when we had grant money in the deal. Somefow fans have managed to be disadvantaged by having a healthy, well run club. Fans appear to be getting f"k'd no matter what. In a traditional sale a private bidder would be building their business plan on fans standard investment. Somehow with this version we are paying to keep our club on an even keel twice. W support the club through its financial difficulties, and yet end up paying a premium once we finally get the club back in a decent position. If this does happen I hope the first thing we do is award all the CIC members a £20 discount on their season tickets.

    Agreed! Which was the reason for my social funder/community questions on Thurs eve. The answers for which still weren't 100% clear except to say that I think the best solution to ensuring that the community element is a success (which is to the benefit of the club and the deal as a whole) is to have someone on the CiC board who has the community stuff at heart. Preferably a bud too!

  17. The fact remains, SG has 3 bids on the table. How long has he been trying to sell his shares?

    He would be a mug not to sell now.

    The fact is, one of those bids will see the paying punters at the gate taking control of the club.

    Only one offer allows the fans to influence the course the club will take.

    You have a choice, pay 10 pounds per month and st mirren will truly be your club, you can decide its destiny.

    Does that scare you? It would scare me! But it's bloody exciting!

    For so long the cries have been that clubs need to listen to fans, read this poll, read that poll. This is how we feel. they are only interested in their blazer and club tie.

    You can change all that, you can be that voice, you can vote on who represents the fans in the boardroom. You could be in the boardroom in 6 months.

    It may be a difficult decision. Life changing for the club. But this could be the closest you come to it. Don't fall at the final hurdle!

    When the fan of another club can see this, it surely means it's time to act. Good on ya Dave!

  18. And sorry did I miss the bit where the self elected board explained why they have promised out all the revenue generating opportunities to organisations that won't be returning any prrofit to SMFC?

    If you had been there you would have known whether that was mentioned or not. The fact that you weren't there but still attempt to assert so large a say, without any real knowledge, discredits anything of substance that you do contribute and devalues your opinion.

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