chico
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Posts posted by chico
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Dunno Div, I believe in supporters directly owning a share in their clubs as SMiSA and the supporters direct model. The CiC isn't quite that, but will see hopefully at least a fan on the St Mirren FC ltd board and more through the CiC
I'm not convinced a supporters bar would turn enough if a profit and I wouldn't sign up for that alone as I'm not bothered about having a drink pre/post match. Although st least the CiC have thought through alternate during the week uses.
I've read some of the criticisms and comments on the main thread and I'm not convinced by the arguments against the CiC, but I'm sort of getting meh about why the CiC is the only show in town. I'm very meh about the £2M asking price and paying £10 a month just to pay off the current BoD.
I think not getting the emails through is a niggle, would have been great if they came straight through. As i said I will get around to it, but my enthuasim has waned just that wee bit.
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Didn't get the email. I'll probably get around to doing it.
Must admit to being far less enthused about the CiC.
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The bar is the most mentioned subject in the Cic.
Are people pledging for a bar membership at £10 per month or because they want to help the Club?
I thought the point of the cic was to pay off gilmour and the BoD.
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Howdy again…
Firstly thanks to all who have sent us telegrams of support. Some from far off haciendas many days ride away, special thanks in particular to you at the ole double (you know the letter) Ranch.
As we sat round the campfire after the ride east to the Hibees Hacienda, five of us trailblazers discussed what is likely to happen next. In the wagon on the trail home back seat 7er had suggested that, at the up and coming pow-wow at SMP, Bossman Gilmour would say that demotion wouldn’t be so bad as there would be more pesos from el SPL banco if Saints were demoted. This led to a heated discussion that lasted until we crossed the Rio Cart in town. Eventually all five agreed that the promise of dollars would be used to make relegation under the CIC more financially acceptable to the fans. Later in the saloon it was pointed out that with Saints ham-strung by the CIC project that the club would have to accept its place as it would not be able to raise cash like a normal commercial business. This would, to use a popular phrase, ‘asset lock’ St. Mirren into the First Division with no prospect of funding our way back to the top league – indefinitely. Season ticket sales would then drop. Gate charges would drop to First Division levels and fewer fans would visit. The CIC has stated that we would have to live within our means. That would mean First Division income only - as the CIC would be unable to contribute due to its debt level. The fans would be busy paying that back. We would be by-standers as the street cleared and the likes of Morton, Dundee, or Hamilton decided to shoot it out for promotion. As the fans then get fed up they drop by the wayside, CIC income drops. It would be a vicious circle.
Another telegram then came in telling us that there seems to be problems with some of the investors. That is to say there have been some very recent knock-backs.
Greedy eyes are being turned to cash stashed away by some fans’ groups according to one of the seven who is acting as lookout elsewhere.
Getting some of this booty will perhaps help fill yet another one of the business £10k places. This will no doubt be heralded as a triumph but if it does come to pass will just be yet another chip-in from WITHIN the club or from businesses associated with the whole project. We now wonder how odd the promoters of the CIC amongst the fans will find it when the list of 12 is finally pinned to the tree in the village square and is made up so. We laughed at the Stranger’s explanation as to why 12 – because there’s 12 unused seats in the directors’ box.
At the Thursday pow wow at the big house, before the Stranger spoke the Bossman suggested that Saints fans may prefer to play Falkirk and Morton rather than struggle against Killie and Aberdeen in the SPL, that the football might even be better. He also in effectIf as he suggested we might be happier playing Falkirk and Morton there would be no real TV money anyway. Well I’ll be darned, of course, the club would receive an extra fistful of dollars if relegated. So why bother then with r*agers and c*ltic at all? In every explanation the Bossman included the words r*ngers and c*tic.
The club then lives within its means, this presumably means that if relegated we accept our mid-table place in the First Division.
Local churches pay £500 a year to use SMP, that’s £10 per week. The club takes the bar profit, what a barrelage deal we must have with the brewers.
So if the CIC experiment fails it will be THEIR fault and theirs alone.
By then that won’t matter as they will have saddled up their ponies and headed west, leaving St. Mirren lying in the dirt
The Mysterious Stranger has now successfully taken us into May as he works away panning for taxpayers’gold and hoping that if it is not forthcoming that the fans will provide the paydirt required.
One suggestion that is particularly out of order is to put £10 on the cost of a season ticket in due course to ‘spread the load’ according to the Stranger. This would be outrageous. Fans wishing to pay directly into the CIC should do so that is fine. If season tickets are priced up in order to TAKE EVEN MORE MONEY FOR THE CIC FROM THE FANS the club will suffer. Those not wishing to contribute may choose not to buy season tickets. Football is expensive enough. How ironic would it be that the CIC costs Saints money by effectively imposing a CIC levy - which is exactly what this would be - on those who do not believe this to be the way forward, so much for community. This can only be opt in not opt out.
All we face is a majority shareholding being put up for sale. WE DON’T HAVE TO DO THIS.
As the tumbleweed rolls by and the whistling of the wind replaces detail, timelines, information, any semblance of real transparency, any word of real progress and the secret funders and secret companies on the list remain just that - a secret - after TWO public meetings, we hope the CIC doesn’t ultimately stand for Cowboy Investment Company!
£120 per season to help a Mysterious Stranger experiment on your club, it’s amazing what well meaning villagers will buy from a travelling salesman from the coast. His suggestion, (apart from the three board set-up) that the other 48% of shareholders gang together will split the club in the true sense. It would also create a fifth or even sixth group within the club. 52%, 48%, Exec board, CIC Board, SMFC board then the rest of the fans. Divide and rule stuff right enough.
The only thing that matters is our FOOTBALL club. It’s been kicking about since 1877. It deserves better than this. If the directors have had enough then we suggest they resign from the board, ask the other major and indeed smaller shareholders to hold an EGM and then appoint a new board. Then just put your shares up for sale in the normal way.
It’s banding together to form a group sale that is hindering the sale of any of the shares at all. IT IS THIS THAT IS PUTTING THE CLUB AT RISK - together with the experiments of the Stranger.
WELL that’s aS FAR as we GO for the moment. The stage is pulling out.
To be continued…
I enjoyed reading that and there's a couple of decent points in there.
I agree with the view on relegation, I'm curious as to SMiSA buying in and he's right about £500 going a long way. And he's made a valid point regarding St Mirren FC Ltd's internal workings.
I'm still supportive of the CiC, but I think it's worth keeping an open mind.
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At beer festival last night with a couple of mates.
View was very much that meetings were announced with short notice making it difficult to attend.
One guy had left email address with 10000 hrs and never got mailed the presentation ( neither did I, but I looked at it off a link on here)
Another comment was that all info had been online and too much work reading through the shite on b&w to get to the nub of the thing.
usual comment about all the stuff just being aimed so far at those that read the forums and know how to find stuff online.
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Been told the church's pastor has found this thread a right good read.
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That’s the bit I have an issue with. But how do you define what the club is worth.
If the Consortium put in £2m is the figure fair.
If the Consortium put in £1m over 10 years ago is the £2m fair
If the Club had not got Planning and not got Tesco to buy the land not got the new stadium, not written off the debt. But did have its debts called in by the Bank. The club folded and the Consortium and the shareholders lost all their money would that have been fair.
Maybe someone can advise how much the Consortium has ploughed in to the club in pure cash and exclusive of their time and effort in keeping the club afloat.
All good points. I also thought that the consortium members with other board members got paid back with interest, the 'camscott' loan taken out to cover the debt that Barr had. Could be wrong and happy to be proven so, but can anybuddie confirm what happened with that?
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The CiC isn't the issue for me, it's the 2 million quid selling price.
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That's not the point I'm making mate.
JDL is saying now that SMiSA have come out in support of the CiC then supporters who are undecided/anti CiC should follow SMiSAs lead.
Why JDL?
Yup see what you mean.
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Why would SMiSA backing the CiC change peoples thoughts on the subject?
I don't see the benefit of SMiSA just disappearing into the background for the CiC. No doubt there can be cooperation, but as the supporters trust, it still has a role to play advocating for supporters and it has to be independent of the majority shareholder.
I guess it's for the SMiSA committee to decide what level to go into the CiC.
I don't know the percentage shareholding of SMiSA in the club, but if the CiC makes the 48% 'worthless' then maybe it's an opportunity for SMiSA to increase it's share in the club too.
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Well done Div.
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Div, I don't see how you can divorce these two Boards. With a 52% controlling interest, the CIC can pull the strings at the football club. The football club Board will have no autonomy. It will operate under the jurisdiction of, and within parameters set by, the CIC Board. Without football-minded people in charge of the CIC we are stuffed. Would you describe Richard Atkinson as a 'football person' with St Mirren FC in his blood ?
Good point but we need business minded people on the board and with the CIC to earn the dough and save cash where possible in order that its therefor the football people to use.
Ideally, both the CIC and main football club boards will have that mix.
For me it needs to be a mix.
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Yes really, the debts were listed as
Loans (due within 1 year) £30,000
Hire Purchase (due within 1 year) £7,756
Trade Creditors £216,519
Social Security & other taxes £72,840
VAT £6,281
Other Creditors £5,742
Wages Control £20,484
Accrued Expenses £414,335
Loans (due after more than 1 year) £82,500
Hire Purchase (due after more than 1 year) £8,015
Total £864,472
What are the accrued expenses? Sound a bit vague.
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Cannae wait to see the reaction when St Mirren hosts its first gay wedding.
hopefully as positive as when it hosts any other event. -
What is your point exactly? I know that you hate Gus and you'll do anything to knock him but both Carey and Barron were good at left back.
Carey, we paid a small loan fee and c*ltic covered some of his wages. Barron, converted into a top class left back and won most of the end of season accolades.
Bringing Carey back would be fantastic for next season and it would also be good if Barron stayed on.
Hate gus? Why would I hate a manager that took us back into the top flight and kept us there?
I hate the hero worship of him and constant use of his name to slaughter Danny Lennon.
Fact is that gus was fallible, made mistakes, he did a right good job, but at the expense of the eay Saints played for the tenure he was in charge.
He never nailed left back IMO, despite bringing through Barron.
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Because that is what the consortium has decided their shares are worth, and hence the sum they will sell for.
The value of anything can also be defined as what someone's willing to pay. Surely if the CIC is the only game in town, the definition of value isn't just a set figure by the board.
My point is that the BoD majority shareholders surely have a great interest in the CiC succeeding and must their pric be £2m and are they walking off into the sunset or are they going to be involved in the CiC going forward?
Certainly Mr Gilmour has experience of league and SFA committees and with the future shape of the SPL structure unresolved, wouldn't the CiC benefit from someone like that still being involved or being able to phase in somebody else to those discussions.
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£2 million. Why's it have to be £2 million?
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Carey & Barron both played well at left back under Gus.
Plus, Ian Harte 'signed'
Carey was an expensive loan. Barron was 'converted' from right back and regularly slaughtered whilst learning the position. Even experienced players around him never helped. Barron learned the hard way.
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2.81MB. Light reading
I thought yul brenners post was okay. Interesting.
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http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/31099-paul-burns/
The guy that posted on Twitter sits next to me at work.
Journo. Meh.
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Paul Burns of QoS has spoken with Saints and Motherwell according to a twitter thingy.
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What about Ralston ? I think we have a plunge pool there. Could we not have baptisms for born agains in that ?
As long as the Paisley and District wifeswappers don't leave any ..ahem substances in it from their timeslot with it.
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Church groups do a fair bit for community, my wee one goes to playgroup at one a couple of times a week for example. If it uses part of the ground on a day when the club don't use it then fair enough,
it's not going to be forced baptisms in the dressing rooms or anything wacko.
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Just heard Chick talking about it and he seems very upbeat about it.He mentioned Church Services at the ground:............it'll be good to hear a bit of singing!!!Chick also revealed a car is being built for the 300 members who sign up.I don't know about this as it could create a them and us situation.What happens if more than 300 want to be members?
A few weeks back i heard a rumour about a church group in Paisley that'd be relocating. Makes sense now.
Wonder if a Sunday game causes problems..
Speculation Thread
in The Rumour Mill
Posted
Is he better than Barrowman? If it all turns to a shitefest next season, it may all come down to us signng marginally better players.