spirit of 77
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Posts posted by spirit of 77
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There is one thing that is getting ignored, the CIC will not have the furtherance of SMFC as it's sole aim. It couldnt attract community funding if that was the case. It has as it's aim the improvement of whatever community is defined in it's articles.
Put simply, not all of the money generated by it will be given to the club, some will go to Kibble and other causes/projects. Also, any money the CIC makes will be in competition with the club. Lets say i approach the cic and ask to hire out conference facilites. They take my money, tell the club to organise the needful in terms of venue, staffing and catering. Once the external bills and staffing (unless Kibble kids are used for free) are paid (i'm assuming they'll be paid) then there will be a residual profit. The CIC will then decide how much of my employer's cash will be used for the furtherance of SMFC and how much will go the gay muslim richard madely appreciation society of inchinnan.
or maybe i could just go direct to campbell kennedy and make the booking with SMFC copping for all of the profit. Assuming that the CIC executive board havent ordered CK to refer all requests to their remit.
Can anyone tell me how SMFC will make MORE money in the above scenario? Will the CIC magically uncover additional streams of business that a full-time, experienced and seemingly very able commercial director & staff cannot find purely by dint of their status?
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Are we a crew now?
I've actually been involved in a scheme very much like this and, to be honest, really can't see why a Saint Mirren fan wouldn't want to be at least supportive. Obviously people might not want to be able to afford it, but that's pretty much the only reason to not get involved.
I've read your post on page 80 and it doesn't really say that much, to me there's nothing there as to why you'd change your opinion. The consortium could be losing patience, but could they not also just want to get their money having taken out loans, mortgages or invested some life savings. Is it also not possible they were as quick to assume an investor would come along as some have been on this thread?
No your a cult-your all Dickophiles
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Ok so you have done your 'homework'. Do tell us what untold disaster awaits if this goes through. And also tell us what viable alternative you have to Richard's proposal.
Until you can provide positive answers, then I'd pipe down if I were you.
You want him to pipe down , or what?
The hysteria coming from the zealously pro-CIC community is now developing into implied threats. this is turning into the richard atkinson personality cult and the members need to be referred to by a collective name that suits their hysteria. You will henceforth be known as Dickophiles.
This is meant to be a debate, Yul posted some contentious points in a humorous style and animal has contiuned to make serious and important points. I dont see a lot of what they ask being answered by 10000 hours people, just a playground swarm of Dickophiles rounding on anyone that questions the validity of the whole thing. Your all so desperate to protect your "close to the action" status that you are happy for the potential prospect of the club being ruined to not be questioned.
In theory, the CIC seems a reasonable idea to me, however the vehicle that they want to use does not seem intended for the running of a multi-million pound enterprise and the grants, loans etc are not yet certain to materialise.
10000 hours, i have 2 questions.
1 if anyone signs on as a member, falls on hard times and defaults on their £120 pa commitment, will you then call on credit management companies to take action and recover the funds owed?
2 If the model fails to deliver the necessary income required to pay off the loans, then what does "going back to the funders" really mean? Would that be a request for more voluntary contributions or would the members be legally liable for a portion of the debt?
Come to think of it, there is a third question.
3 If public funds are sought then these will be in the gift of governmental and non-governmental organisations, which are usually headed up by former politicians, civil-servants etc. What happens when we default on the payments ( i think this is almost certain to happen)? Am i right in thinking that the creditors can then take ownership of the shares and then try to sell them off to recoup their outlay?
Answers, please.
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Rememeber that there will now be two bars within the club one owned and operated by the club and one fitted out and operated by the CIC. It is worth noting that the CIC will pay rent after a time to the club for the space that the bar is in thus making the club money too
Excellent Question i have been waiting for someone to ask
The CIC elected board would be able to decide what to do with the surplus. We would expect this would mean that the CIC members board would look to put something back into the Club within the rules of a CIC
Does that now clear it up fully?
10000hours
Something, but not necesssarily all.
Why do i feel nonplussed by that statement?
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The Executive Board may well have spent time on this but we are being asked to pay for this fairly risky financial experiment. And we are being told that the 'community' has some kind of power in this scheme.
Don't get me wrong, I have to admire Mr.A for dreaming this up. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayer's money to be obtained in grants. Maybe a million in loans, and 300 supporters paying off the loans for them, while not putting a personal penny at risk. A touch of genius here !
The only reason the community is involved is to gain access to grants and loans.
I agree 100% with your sentiments, these are valid points and it is right to be sceptical.
I also find it reprehensible that the 10000 hours plants(i.e. any muppet with a tenatative connection to the media) have rounded on you in such a unified manner
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The public meeting tonight will include a few slides, these can be downloaded now on the tweetcast page at;
http://www.10000hours.org/live
Some of the slides won't make a whole lot of sense until the meeting itself, but you do get a much bigger picture of the proposed members bar
If you are attending the tweetcast please download the slideshow beforehand, as I will reference it in the tweets so you know what is being discussed.
If you are attending the meeting it might also be good to print off a copy of the slideshow and bring it with you, so you can definitely see what is being talked about as it could be busy !
The information is so sparse that it is hardly worthwhile printing it-nothing new here at all.
In theory i am in favour of the CIC, and remain suspicious of the motives behind those who are setting it up. The very simplistic presentation of facts and the activities of obvious "plants" on this forum re-inforce the suspicion that the message is very much "you dont need to be aware of what is happening-you just need to agree to it"
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The suggestion that Provan Sports were ditched as the club's retail partner because they refused to back the CIC plan, while Carbrini @ JD Sports won the kit contract because they did is possibly the biggest load of old shite I've read on here in a long time.
Who said that?
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Do you know this to be a true reflection of events?
Alan Provan's endorsement of the CIC is in the information booklet, perhaps the new owners did tell him he was unlikely to win the new contract when they asked for this endorsement.
perhaps.
JD sports also endorsed the project and subsequently won the contract.
wan in, wan out, as they say.
PS are JD sports lined up as a corporate member of the CIC?
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I think actions speak louder than words and the action of setting up provan sports to endorse 10000 hours (what a posey title) then ditching the company is a clear indication of the character of the persons seeking to take control of the club.
I'd advocate resistance, but it's probably already too late.
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Maybe in future, if the cic is extremely successful, there would be a seperate 10000 hours charity pot fund - funded from the cic income - for the community members to apply to use for various events, ie maybe a church group would have a kids Xmas party paid for from the fund. Any applications would be decided by the members board, just like any other funding body - it would probably operate like a credit union.
Nobody takes anything financially from these community groups anyway so to imply that they would be profiting out of it without any evidence is a bit of paranoid scaremongery.
Even without the possibility of this until maybe a year or two down the line, for these community groups, even being part of the cic could be to their advantage. The contacts network within the cic could be put to good use - a skills trade for example - and they would actually be contributing towards a greater community, which has maybe been lost lately, as opposed to being an isolated group.
Some of the major criticisms of community companies formed using public money have been the level of salaries paid to directors, the apointment of family members as employees on inflated salaries, the misuse of funds and questionble decisions made regarding the placing of contracts. i would suggest that quite a lot of money can be made in these circumstances
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I posted some bits & pieces about the draymin a coupleof years ago when half the band were working in the same factory as me and looking for colleagues to spread the word. They disappeared for a while when Fraser penman went to work offshore but they have been taking it seriously for a year or so now and are currently negotiating with (possibly all signed up now) Universal.
Theyve matured quite a bit and developed their sound. well worth checking out.My link
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Expect a move into management soon - his blogs show he talks a lot of sense, thinks about the game and understands what makes people sick......
Fixed it
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A few observations about yesterday. As others have said, the first half was crap, apart from a good shot that came back off the woodwork. Second half was much better, but still not great. We need to remember who we were playing - these guys are still part timers in pre-season. Still, a win's a win! I thought McGregor looked pretty useful, as did McGowan and McQuade. Wardlaw looks like a poor man's Higdon. Dargo scored with a deflected shot that left the keeper stranded, but otherwise was sh*te. The rest were pretty ordinary. Saints fans were in good voice as usual. Ballymena have a good wee set up - nice stadium with improvemens goin on, several other pitches in the complex, a good wee soial club and a bar in the ground.
Could there be a more damning assessment of a player's ability?
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Pitty we don't still strangle and burn people...I could pick loads from that end of the town that deserve to burn!
And you'd do it yourself, no doubt?
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I couldnt go to the service due to a long-standing work commitment. My wife and son, who both knew Derek, went in my absence. i have to admit to choking up a little when my wife called and told me about the Johnny Cash and Satch'mo tunes.
A helpful soul asked me why I was upset, after I explained the circumstances he mouthed the obligatory "well I'm sure your friend would have wanted you to carry on", which made me smile as I replied "no, Derek would have told me to stuff work, throw a sickie and get my arse down the Tile bar"
Sorry I missed your day mate, but I'll be missing you for a long time anyway.
RIP Derek
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Think Derek would now be saying I wish I had took the missus every week.....
Derek will be so proud that Maureen was there and he was there with her sitting from above cheering us along to 3 points..... Well done Maureen and Dell boy from above..... Thoughts are with you Maureen
My old mans going in for a serious op tomorrow (could affect his life in a big way) naturally I will be saying a few prayers tomorrow while hes under the knife but I'll certainly be saying one for Derek .... and also one for Maureen
Well done tonight
Raymond
Hope all goes well for your old man today
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Sorry to add another post but this is such tragic news, and wonder if theres something we can do to make our feelings felt?
Some of his closer friends might have an idea and I'm sure we'd all support any idea.
I'm not trying to over dramatise my place in this, never met him but, strangely, feel very very saddend by this,
Not strange, the derek you knew through here was very much the derek we all knew in person, there was some talk of a collection for a brick at the new ground on the wall of fame and i'm sure the tile bus brigade will sort something out. Everybody is missed when they go but somehow this loss seems to cut quite deep. We are measured in this life by the friends we have and derek certainly was rich in that respect, whether they are friends in person or via a football forum.
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Hi Raymond , just spoke to Big John Conway a friend of Derek's. He confirmed the tragic news that Derek collapsed in Well St today on his way to the game , he never regained conciousness and died. A true St Mirren supporter and friend who I first met at an away game in Stranraer in 1973.
I am shattered by the news and thoughts are obviously with his family. RIP Derek
Derek, We were even missing you in the tile before NSS and Feegie saint came in to break the tragic news.
Like you Billy, Derek and i go back a long way Lost contact with him for a good few years and was happy to have re-acquainted with him over the last dozen or so years. Derek was a diamond, not a bad bone in his body. of many memories my favourite is of the day we last won the 1st divison at love st. I ripped my shirt getting into the car on the way to the game and bought a very white polo shirt at braehead en route, after the game Derek was so excited he balanced a pint of his beloved guiness on my head and started pogoing, i was drenched and the shirt ruined but he and spirit junior near pished themselves and you couldnt get angry with the old bugger. It just wasnt possible.
He will be missed, that's for sure. My thoughts are with Maureen and his family. A wee light has gone out for many of us.
RIP Buddie, sleep well.
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Interesting point here is the number of people who have only recently joined the forum and are posting only on this topic.
My big question is, where is "upmarket" Ralston? Is it anywhere near the spam munching hordes who arent good enough to live in Pennilee?
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I'm not sure the dug will ever get used to it though
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First, the playing field already has planning permission so sod all can be done about it.
Secondly, as it was an existing playing field the proposal automatically met the criteria of "Renfrewshire Local Plan Policy and the objectives of SPP11, in that it will protect and enhance active recreational open space use of the site".
Thirdly, it was noted by the case officer that there would be an increase in use of the facilty and, as such, recommended that a curfew of 2130 be imposed and that floodlights must be switched off by this time. Consequently, in order to protect local amenity, this was imposed as a condition of the planning permission. (the residents had requested a 2100 curfew in a letter of objection).
Fourth, the residents requested that the facility be restricted "to the exclusive use of St. Mirren F.C. with all activities being overseen by their officials to prevent inappropriate language or behaviour which could cause distress to local households". They also raised concern, "with regards to the conditions of the lease and the potential for the playing fields to be operated by St. Mirren FC as a commercial venture"
As neither were issues that Planning could impose, St.Mirren out of courtesy agreed to it.
Fifthly, the planning committee actually asked that the fences be raised. St. Mirren indicated that they would be raised to five metres, which is in-line with other council playing fields.
The case officer suggested that this be reviewed after six months if balls in gardens proved a problem (Excuse me missus, can ah huv ma baw back?).
They had the opportunity to object and they did. The planning approval took their concerns in to consideration. That's the point of the democratic process furfuxake.
It was a midden beforehand and St.mirren have come in and spent money on and probably improved the amenity of the area.
The funny thing is, the bowling club next door has a a licensed bar and is used until much later than half 9. It's probably worse in terms of being an anti-social neighbour.
There are two grounds (at least) for the residents to cite as a reason for restricting activity. the first and most obvious is that the operation is creating a nuisance that the residents could not have foreseen when objections were being lodged-they will argue that they have never had a soccer academy next door so they couldnt predict how bad it would be. They may have to go to court but if their concerns are deemed valid and unforeseeable before the opening then the club would be forced to take action.
Second would be to make an allegation that the planning consents have been breached (unconsented use) which could potentially force a temporary closure or ioperating restrictions until the disputes are resolved. Seems more to do wth the folly of siting the complex in a residential area. These neighbour issues were foreseeable and the residents probably do have some rights to force changes.
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of course, the complaint isn't about the lights being on but the fact they are often on until after 9:30 in the evening.
You'll probably find the club has permission to burn the lights till 22:00, as i said i'm sure the club will be happy to compromise.
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Burning Gus at the gas-fired stake?
They have a valid complaint if we do that, we dont have an entertainment license.
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They are a bit late with their pish. They should have got themselves organised a bit better when it was in the planning stage. In five years time most of them will be dead anyway. Crinkled old cadavers.
now it's open, the only way they can affect the running is to bombard the polis with complaints and also try to beef up spurious allegations that the planning consents are being abused.
I hate these cocks who think because they have a desk job they have the ability to influence absolutely everything, perhaps their biggest loss is that they have to clean their labradoodles shit off the pavement now that they lost their unofficiel doggyloo.
The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours
in 10000Hours Archive
Posted
"I'd pipe down if i were you" implies a consequence. I'm always careful not to print anything on here that i wouldnt be happy to back up in person, it'd be nice if the dickophiles thought before following the school bullies as they pursue the kid that doesnt want to conform to their norms.
Secondly, he (or she) doesnt need to present any alternatives. That is for the current board to do, the valid role of fans is to air their views and have them debated, that is what a forum is meant to be about, not a vehicle for ramming the views of a supposed cognoscenti down the throats of the populace.