animal

""what will happen to the 48% shareholders if the CIC plan doesn't go ahead."" - life will go much as it has done for over 100 years. No one is saying the present position is perfect or that a sole owner of the 52% would be guaranteed to be 100% bad or good. What concerns me is the CIC model is being presented as a life saver, but with little or no evidence to back up this claim, and a very curious lack of information on its progress or financial background. Time will unfortunately tell which one of us is right.

I am not keen for this to fail I just don't see how it will work and nothing you have said so far has convinced me otherwise. If the CIC scheme fails to get off the ground St. Mirren will go on as it has done for over 100 years. But the CIC has the potential to destroy our club by the introduction of large amounts of possibly unserviceable debt. I have been a supporter and a season ticket holder for over 40 years, and a shareholder for over 20 years.

I did not use an assumption of £10 a month. I simply used the possible £150 figure a year to illustrate the point. If I did use your £10 a month figure that would reduce the income to the CIC even more. By £15,000 I think. At least the 'unknown entity' might possibly buy the shares with his (her) own money and not a mixture of public money, fan's money, local company's money and massive amounts of debt.

You asked ""Is there a basis for your outrage or is it just your standard state of mind when in a position of voluntary ignorance."" I am just outraged that someone should come up with a scheme which will possibly destroy our club.

Do you really think for £150 ish a year you will get 'a real say in the decision making process of the club' ? Dream on.

How soon ???

Well OK you give me a better guess. Preferably one that does not involve the Club or the CIC or both in deep debt.

No Jd and Carbrinri had not escaped my attention. But the last time I looked they were not small COMMUNITY businesses. This decision will cost jobs in the local COMMUNITY. So much for COMMUNITY interests Mr. A. Will Jd be selling the full range of St Mirren merchandise that Provan's did ? I think not.

Having to do a lot of guesswork here but say 500 fans at say £150 per a year plus 20 businesses at say £10,000 EXTRA a year is about £275,000. Even this is very optimistic. I say EXTRA as the 20 businesses are probably already putting their hand in their pockets (corporate hospitality track side ads etc.) and 500 fans at £150 a year is asking quite a lot. Say £300,000 in one off grant from the Scottish Investment Fund. Looks like a lot of debt to make it up to £2,000,000. The whole scheme is very dependent on the fans and businesses to keep paying for a long time to come. Am I wrong ?

Forgive me if I don't fancy the comparison of St. Mirren and Ebbsfleet. I have looked at their web site and I can't even work out which (minor) league they are in. Anyone who thinks there is a lot of money to be made by running a bar for a few hours, every second week (apart from the summer) at Greenhill Road is living in a financial dream world. Where will you 'find money for the playing budget' ??? When all this fantasy falls apart and the lenders come looking for their money it will be goodbye St.Mirren.

So most of the £2,000,000 will be funded by debt then ? I notice you are trying very hard not to mention the word DEBT !

""When I spoke with Richard"" So did he not tell you how it works ? If not why not ? If you do have all the details why not let us all know. ""get in touch with Richard and let him know, he is from Ayrshire so doesn't know the scene"" He has been a director of this club for nearly a year. God help us if he still doesn't know the local business scene. The only business I know he has had dealings with is closing - hint - sports shop not far from Paisley Cross !

OK Mr. Atkinson (Richard) What can I do to help ? Please tell us.

The only one not answering any real and important questions is your friend Mr. Atkinson.

The only thing that is getting a bit tedious is the various friends of Mr. Atkinson telling me to get in touch with him. Why won't he come on here and tell EVERYONE how it all works ? What does he have to hide ?????????????

It's not a threat it's a fact. I'm not outraged but just very concerned that the club is possibly heading for disaster. Almost a year gone and no public explanation of how this financial wizardry will actually work. What is the problem with Mr. A telling how he plans to find £2,000,000 in the next few days. Or is it the end of March 2111 he was taking about. Still no answer to the question what happens to the 48% shareholders. How can you support a scheme when you have no idea how it really works ? The latest rumor I hear is that Mr. A has cobbled together £300,000. Is this true ? If so where does the remaining £1,700,000 come from ? Was in Provan shop today - very sad - bargain basement sale of St. Mirren items. So much for COMMUNITY businesses Mr. A. I presume the shop will soon close. Didn't want to ask the staff. Do you want the same to happen to the Club ?

I don't think I will either unless the cloud of secrecy is lifted to reveal a sound financial scheme. Can someone (maybe even Mr. Atkinson) please tell us how much of the £2,000,000 in the bank. Or is it as I suspect, all fantasy football on a grand scale. Time to put up or shut up Mr. A. PS. I am still waiting to hear how tho 48% of us - the other shareholders fit into this fantasy.

Well said that man. 10 days until the end of March and no word on how all this will work. The 49% of us 'other' shareholders are being treated like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed on S**T. Does anyone know the number (or percentage) of shareholders needed to call another AGM ? I feel we are sailing slowly to towards a disaster. The CIC scheme only makes (even a very little) sense if we are in the first or even second division. Is that the grand plan Mr. Atkinson ? I think we deserve to know NOW !

I am really fascinated by this constant suggestion that I should get in touch with Mr. Atkinson to get the full details of this 'deal'. I presume that if I did and then posted details of what I was told, DIV, ST SID, and KTF who seem strangely keen on this deal - (do they perhaps have any eyes on a seat on the Board ?) would then tell me that this is not the real story, and shout a few more sad insults. Ktf do you talk to your 'wee one' like you write on here ? The solution to all this is very easy. Please Mr. Atkinson come on here and tell me how wrong I am. Please spend 10 or 15 minutes telling us all how it would all work, how much debt of what sort is involved, what's in it for you, and answer the many other genuine questions that I and other have asked over the last few days. Just to add to the list of unanswered questions. How does any SIMISA money fit into this jigsaw ?

Here we all are 5 days, 250+ posts, 9000+ views later. Still NO definitive answers even more ifs / but / maybe / as far as I know / as far as I am aware / heard that / think it / could be etc etc etc. Still NO word from Mr. Atkinson. Lochwinnoch Saint is right, when the club was about to go under only a few hundred supporters were willing to put their hand in their pocket. So not much chance, I suspect, of thousands wanting to put up £10 a month or local businesses putting up £10,000. Lot of posters seem to want to wait until the deal is done (or the full details made public) until they make up their mind. The fact of the matter is that both will happen at the same time. One morning in the not too distant future, we will all wake up to a press statement in the papers or the morning radio / TV news. The club will be sold and Mr. Atkinson and a couple of his associates (I can't even remember their names) will control our club. No doubt he has already applied for the loans and grants and is just waiting for the green light from the Bank of Taxpayer. It's time to waken up and smell the sh*t. I will check back in a couple of day to see if any anything concrete has arrived - not holding my breath - even if some of you would like me to !

Really glad I started all this. Its been well worthwhile. Even putting up with the usual abuse. Here we all are 3 days, 200 posts, 7500 views later. NO definitive answers but lots of if / but / maybe / as far as I know / as far as I am aware / heard that / think it / could be etc etc etc. NO word from Mr. Atkinson I see. I did not want to see his deepest secrets - just the financial mechanism which he intends to use and what will happen if any loans cannot be repaid. I will check back on Monday to see if any anything concrete has arrived.

It is not my accounts I was referring to but that of a company whose accounts I am preparing, and looking at the viability of a fairly complex business plan. I do this quite a lot - it's called a job, you should try it sometime instead of spending your life on here defending the financial plans of someone else. Especially when you don't seem to have the skill set needed to make the assessment required. Have you not heard of Companies House ? Lots of info here if you are interested in accounts. Reid Kerr have some pretty good courses in accountancy for beginners if you want to learn more. For example http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8031052277c4b848a8e5b0863e4d2fa8/compdetails As a shareholder I have a copy of the recent club accounts I was not looking to see Mr. Atkinson's accounts, that would be meaningless right now. i suspect there are none. Just an explanation of how he plans to get his hands on £2,000,000 of public money. PLEASE don't feel the need to reply to this. I want to get back to my real work.

Judging by this you are no doubt a person of great intelligence. Your talents are clearly wasted on here. Perhaps you could manage a football club. I am glad I started what has turned into a worthwhile discussion (mainly). All this could be put to rest if Mr. Atkinson could tell us in detail the way he intends to raise the money. Which fund is it coming from and what is the mix of loan and debt. Please don't try to say its all a bit sensitive at the moment - this has been on the go for many months now. Remember that this appears to be public money being used to buy shares in a private company. All he has to do is read through this thread and answer the questions posed. My work here is done. Goodbye and goodnight.

Well I was hoping to have a discussion about it. Is that not what the the forum is for ? You were quick enough to try to 'explain' to us all how the deal would work earlier in the thread. How about you asking Mr. Atkinson to come on here and answer the questions that I have put, or even him posting couple of pages explaining the deal IN DETAIL would not go amiss. I will leave it here for tonight as well. In contrast to this, I have some real company accounts and sound financial proposals to look over before tomorrow.

I have never said I was clever but I seem to know a wee bit more about this than you. However I did not know about this 500K 'contribution'. I have looked on the web site of the SOCIAL INVESTMENT FUND http://www.socialinvestmentscotland.com It seems to talk only of LOAN FINANCE. Is this 500K a LOAN or a Grant ???? Have I got the right web site ???? Just to be clear the SOCIAL INVESTMENT FUND is not the same as the SCOTTISH INVESTMENT FUND - which is it ? Or is there a contribution from both . Grant from one loan from another ?