stlucifer
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Posts posted by stlucifer
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I was led to believe that HMRC, or ticketus for that matter, could force the amdinistrators to allow BDO to start the break up of assets?But Rangers haven't and won't be liquidated until the Newco is set up and in place .
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The Administrators are still suggesting that Green can buy the grounds for a fraction of their worth stiffing the taxpayer out of millions. At the end of the day HMRC will get F'all out of Whyte and Murray so surely the assets THEY owned should be auctioned off piecemeal to the highest bidder to maximise the return. Anything less is criminal AFAIC.
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It seems that the new CEO of Rangers, (his words, not mine), is already displaying the Rangers' mentality in thinking that they are above the law and can influence the taxman,
Green has urged fans to exert political pressure to ensure the tax authority accepts the reduced payments on offer.
"Fans should be urging their politicians to apply some pressure so that the CVA is accepted," he said.
And so the arrogance continues.
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For me the most significant revelation in this whole saga for quite a while is the fact that Duff and Duffer had been usurped as liquidators and BDO put in their place by HMRC.
I think this would mean that Green would not have carte blanche to take Rangers fixed assets for a pittance and that the grounds may be sold off to maxaimise the return for the creditors. This may raise enough to pay those owed as much as 90 pence in the pound. A big difference to the 2, 3 or up to 8% the CVA was destined to return.
I also suspect that more revealing facts as to the relationships between Green&Whyte and Duff&Phelps is set to come to light.
I do hope Whyte's sentences run concurrently as he has been so good to us!
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Sounds like an election in a third world puppet democracy!There's more than that. There is all the Debentures TBC. My dad bought his house about 10 years ago from someone with the same Surname. He recently recieved a letter asking him if he wished to accept the CVA as the previous occupier had been a debenture holdier. The guy is deed and has been for about 15 years. I wonder how many of the debenture holders are still around. I believe the debenture is no transferable (but don't know for sure). Their inclusion on the CVA is a blatent attempt to load the dice in D&P's favour.
I do hope you are right as, should it come to light, jail sentences may follow...... follow!
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It appears the Beeb are quite confident with their smoking gun.
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Back on topic!
The Herald's article http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/what-is-the-true-colour-of-greens-money.17671567
suggests that a decision on Rangers might not be needed by the SP(ine)L(ess) chairmen!
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That would just mean the SFA and SPL would add to the list of creditors.Would be interesting to know how much it is costing the SFA and SPL to run their investigations into Rangers given that judges are involved in some of it and how much RFC continually appealing decisions costs the rest of Scottish football.
We are reaching the stage where we should be saying to RFC / Duff & Phelps that if they want to appeal any more decisions by the SFA or SPL they pay the full costs of the appeals win, lose or draw!
After all. Rangers don't do paying their way!
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Blue Knights bid is rejected!
Wasn't that what I said?They put the Blue knights in,
The blue knights out,
The blue knights in and they cry a lot and pout.
They pull them out againand shake their fist at Duff,
That's when we've had enough!
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They put the Blue knights in,
The blue knights out,
The blue knights in and they cry a lot and pout.
They pull them out againand shake their fist at Duff,
That's when we've had enough!
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Yes. I agree. But, AFAIK, a newco Rangers, under present rules, would have no voting rights in the first few years. This would allow the ten to fight the one for voting rights enabling a fairer system to be put in place.So if it isn't achievable you would rather they go the newco route and be admitted into the SPL that way? Unfortunately Rangers will survive in some form or another.
As an aside I received this from a Saints supprorter and thought I was getting a lesson in history.
"The tragic loss of life at Pearl Harbour was indeed a solemn and sobering event; a devastating attack that plunged families into anguish and despair and catapulted the world into total war the like of which had never been experienced before. What was to follow, however, was to be so catastrophic, so unimaginably brutal and horrific as to shock the world for generations to come."
It actually turns out to be more a lesson in histrionics
It comes from an article written by a Rangers fan as an apparent analogy of the treatment of his club as he goes on to say,
"For many the demise of Rangers Football Club would be a spectacle to revel in; a media event to be enjoyed. Indeed, for some it would be the fulfilment of a life-long desire and the culmination of years of work. All those who nurse a consuming hatred for Rangers Football Club believe that the day they have waited and worked for all of their sad and sorry lives may now be close at hand. For them the demise of our great club will not be a, ‘date which will live in infamy’ but, rather, a date to be celebrated much like the sneaky Japanese attack on sleepy Hawaii."
Pontifical nonsense of the highest degree.
And they wonder why so many are enjoying the self inflicted debacle while not one of their lot admit to it being "their fault" and I include the fans as they bayed for more and more investment in search of a wholy unattainable goal.
Hell mend you Rangers and your fans as you slip into a coma at the very least.
I had to go searching and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to read the whole article but I assure you, It IS comedy gold!!!
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Not yet out of the deep pit as all bids appear to hinge on a CVA being approved.
From the HMRC site.
Introduction to Voluntary Arrangements
Occasionally exceptional reasons will cause us to decline proposals.(For a CVA)
Examples might include
•operating a policy of withholding payment of Crown money
A CVA might not be agreed by HMRC.
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The new dawn broke, Wee David Blue in,
To be, "Simply the best? T'was a shoe in!
Threw cash here, there,... and everywhere,
The source of which, the fans didn't care.
As the years flew in, it became so clear,
That the follow brigade, had lots to fear.
So off went SIR David, the club sold on the cheap,
And the weearra peepul, followed like sheep.
A new saviour stands, on the steps and declares,
That he, Craig Whyte, would help save the bears.
A few months on and it comes to pass,
He was talking through, a hole in his ass
Like a flash, he was gone. A thief in the night,
Leaving Rangers, so deep in the shyte
With a tax bill as big as the post office tower,
And Rangers chasing, t'wards their final hour.
They brought Duff'nPhelps in, the like we've not seen,
Administrators, who it seems, don't count the beans?
Next through the door, from "over the pond"
A man of whom fans, were less than fond
Though beggars and choosers should spring to mind,
It mattered not, as those same fans would find.
After perusing the books and reading them right,
he decided buying the h*ns would leave Miller light
Now the end is nigh, those fans want to Hurry,
And sell the dying club, to a different Murray.
But since we know now, that Rangers are skint,
The new price might be, just one Murray mint
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McShane will let no one down if given the opportunity.
Dargo would have to be on second string wages, if we took him back at all, as Nigel would always be above him in the pecking order. As would Thompson and, perhaps even McShane as well.
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Delighted to hear it. Like I said above the middle ground is always the best place to be.
You were a little more cautious earlier; what has changed your mind?
I actually bought into the concept quite quickly but slowly wavered due to the lack of real information and the format of the D.D.
I have still to be totally convinced again but I truly believe the catalyst for the recent new direction and spate of quality signings is within the CiC group.
That beiing the case I feel they must have some interest in what is best for the football club.
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Good to see you have about turned and joined the CIC membership stlucifer.
Not quite about turned. More, moved to within a whisker of the dividing line.
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St Sid.
You have convinced me about the presidency.
I vote for POZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited to add...............................
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No I dont have privy to anything that is not already out there. The CiC offer is the only game in town so its the only one I can consider and its the only one that is allowing the fans to be involved. The selling consortium rejected the other offers so its not a point for any further discussion and was irrelevant to the supporters anyway in that they had no influence one way or another. If the consortium had accepted another deal then we would just have had to accept it as well. No discussion. No debate. No involvement.
That's as maybe but it doesn't fall into the " the CiC looks on paper to be the best deal for everyone concerned" category.
I don't know if the other offers are still on the table. In a way I hope they are in case the CiC, which is dependant on many fronts, falls flat.
The objective of the CiC is very admirable - helping the local community as well as the club - and many who have got to know RA vouch for his enthusiasm and ideas and believe him to be honest. Any outstanding issues anyone may have can be addressed personally to the man in a one-to-one meeting. Not many take overs would offer that level of personal discussion.
Theory is wonderful and no one can doubt RA's commitment in seeing it through but my doubts lie in his ultimate goal being in the best interest of the club at least in equal part to the community.
At the end of the day you either buy into a dream or you dont. For any dream to be realised an amount of faith is required. Div alluded to the need to keep momentum going. In any situation you have to make a decision then back it to the hilt until you find further challenges then you review and change accordingly. Doing nothing but fretting on the sidelines creates negative energy and nothing changes.
It appears that you have indeed "bought into the dream" but, unfortunately, my faith has withered somewhat as the debate continues
Not so much different questions as much as wary of the answers I'm afraid.I suggest that anyone who has unresolved questions either posts them on the Q&A thread or takes up RA's open offer to meet. Make a decision and if its a yes then go for it with enthusiasm.
Perhaps hearing it from the horses mouth rather than reading protracted claims and counter claims would move me in the other direction but, until then, call me a sceptic.
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My kids are happy enough with the odd trip to Xscape and a new DS game every now and then...
Made me chuckle.
Have a dot of the green variety!
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I sent mine off. I buy into the whole Community thing as much as helping SMFC. Yes there are risks and uncertainties but nothing in life is guaranteed. We have got to give it our best shot and resort to Plan B if Plan A doesn't work out. At the moment the CiC looks on paper to be the best deal for everyone concerned. Lets go for it!
Unless you've been privy to the other deals offered I don't see how you can make an informed judgement on that.
I'm not saying it isn't. I just can't say it is as no one has made public the details of any other offers that were put to the outgoing consortium and what was claimed by those bidders, re their objectives and desires for Saint Mirren FC.
All I know is the outgoing shareholders are getting their asking price if the CiC succeeds in getting financilal backing.
I won't vote here as I said I changed my mind on the OS poll.
My decision is based on a lot more than the rantings of hotdiggity and Yul, in case you ask.
This could change again depending on the suggested meeting touted by div.
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One of my concerns is that, if the CiC were to fail and there were no offers for the club. Or at least none that suited. Would RA/the CiC board be able to sell the shares on the cheap? Perhaps even to themselves?
Now. I don't know Richard from Adam and in no way suggest that he would do this but if it is possible then, feasably, 400+ fans and many businesses might pay a lot of money toward someone acquiring 52% of SMFC at a very reduced figure while the present consortium still managed to get away with their pockets fully loaded to the extent they wanted.
This might constitute an incentive for someone to start the project to begin with.
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Personally, I think Div made a mistake in writing about RA's investment in this post.
And as it's now become the subject of an extensive debate I think he should withdraw or clarify his original post.
That said, I don't believe for one minute it was his intention to mislead or deceive anyone as implied above.
Hardly implied ds10.
I merely asked if any of them represented his intentions.
If not then Div can certainly explain what he did mean and what he did know....... If he so wishes.
If not. Then surely it is still valid to ask the questions.
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Have you been listening to people on this forum?
If so then you shouldnt be trusted with your own bank card never mind an adult decision over something like the cic.
Get it filled in, get it posted and behave yourself!
1) I could hardly LISTEN to people on a non vocal forum, and
2) Why would it be that you couldn't be an adult to decide against the CiC? Is it akin to the emporers new clothes? Only the clever will see what's not there?
That's quite a diatribe of a statement, not proven in fact.
I am being influenced by all sides of the argument. pro and anti CiC.
I am being influenced by all I read about the workings of a CiC.
I am, first and foremost, making my decisions based on MY interpretations of all I have read.
Is that OK Mister?
Poor R*ngers Theads Merged.....
in Other Football
Posted · Edited by stlucifer
SFA impose a punishment. The appeal fails. Rangers ignore "football bodies rules", takes the case to the courts and claim no organization is above the law of the land.
Now he says that if the players don't transfer to any Newco they will be in breach of contract.
Well Mr. Green. Stick this in your pipe........
Protection of employment regulations suggest that employees must be offered but are under no obligation to accept the terms of transfer to a new company.
AFAIC, You can't have it both ways.
Edited to add.
On another front.
Given that part of the reason for HMRC's opposition to a CVA was to facilitate an investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial affairs which would include the administrations of David Murray and Craig Whyte.
Would it not also include Duff and Duffer themselves, as they have been responsible for the company’s financial affairs for the last four months.
If so then perhaps the sale of assets is not such a "done deal" after all.