animal

Anybody want to work out how long it will take with say 400 @ £10 a month, 30 @ £3000 and nobody coming up with £25,000 ? (that's a question Sid).

I did ask the obvious question which everone should be asking - am I missing something ???????????? The model we are being asked to accept does not seem to add up. There is not the money in the pot to buy the shares at the current price, and with a week to go (and over two years gone by) there will not be. QUESTION Could Mr. A please tell us what bit of this scheme I have missed ?

The problem for you my friend, is that the pot is so big, with so little in it, that your £10 will not make any difference to the financial model.

I have looked at the 10000 hours site to see who has signed up for what. It looks like only about half the £10 a month subs have arrived. After 2 years and with a week to go it seems unlikly that the £90K figure will be reached. I cannot now see the figure for 87 club members (how strange) but I thought is was 33. So it's unlikley that target will be reached in a week. The figure for the 1877 club members was a big fat zero the last time I saw it a few days ago. So not much chance of 9 people daft enough to sign up in the last week. Mr A says "Other revenues come for the CIC trading of the void (this facility also makes the club money too) and other social enterprise activity such as use of the normally unused Physio facilty within a Social Enterprise. The aditional £600k is repayable between 3 and 5 year depending on other circumstances" I cannot see how any (legal) enterprise in the void can raise anything like the money need to bridge the vast gap in the financial model even IF (AND IT's A VERY BIG IF) the 3 member categories were fully subscribed. What are "other circumstances" ? There is no way this scheme can possibly work. Anyone with a calculator can see that - unless I am missing something ?????????????

A member of staff told me. Am I wrong ??? Please tell me so. I almost hope I am. It would worry me greatly if the great Mr. A has such a lack of interest in football. It would raise the obvious question in my mind that he has another agenda. Sid has seen the light. This is an attempt to get fans and taxpayers to pay for Mr.A and his Executive Board friends to take over our Club. I won't make it back in time for the 7th. Perhaps someone else can ask this question at the public meeting.

I did not return with any "facts". I simply asked how many home games Richard Atkinson attended last season. That seems a reasonable question to ask. If, as he claims, to be genuinly intrested in the the Club that might be a good measure. So KTF can you tell me the answer (or Mr. A if you are watching this).

Bon jour mon amis, Its been a while I know, but I have been keeping an eye on things over the past few months while I, Kermit, Piggy and the gang were promoting the film. Now here at Cans in the South of France. Weather really warm - especially if you have this much hair ! Well things have moved on a little. Version 4 a of the CIC is the latest. Gordon Scoot has joined the CIC gang. St. Sid has seen the light ! He now is more against the CIC than I ever was. Others have noticed that they will be paying their hard earned cash to have Mr. A and co run the Club via an Executive Board. Yet another public meeting- the last I hope. I might manage back in time - have to get my new season ticket - my real investment into the club. The PDE run stories of boogy men waiting in the wings to asset strip the Club. The gates of Hell await us unless we cough up our £10 a month or £3,000 or £25,000 if you have the cash. No real control of anything for your £10. Can't belive anyone is daft enough to spend £25,000 for the prospect of a seat (maybe) on one of the many, many boards. So sad to see Tony Fitz is still part of this scheme - a real nice guy, but please don't give him a third shot at managing the team via some Board. Gordon Scoot involvement is a strange thing. Call me a cynic (I know you will) but at present he has a bundle of worthless shares (part of the 48%). I forget the exact number he was putting into the CIC but I think it is enough for 9 or 10 daft bu*gers to pay £25,000 for blocks of 1877. I assume this might raise about £250K to help pay off the CIC debt burden. Tell me if I am far off the mark. If the CIC fails (even if it does not) he becomes a creditor - so he goes from having a bundle of worthless shares to being a creditor in something - to be honest I'm not sure what the something is - CIC or club or what. Aurivwar. PS. Maybe some of the CICers could confirm how many home games Mr. Atkinson attended last season ? a) 1 2 c) 3

I hear today that the "room full of nodding heads" numbered less than 25 and included 4 at the top table. Is that correct ?

The people are very real and you are very wrong. I challenge you to provide evidence. I also challenge you (for the third time) to provide evidence that your CIC scheme was somehow stopped by councillors, It is quite clear that you simply made up this claim to shift the blame on to others. The scheme was clearly stopped because the funders see it for what it is - how to get control of a football club without putting your hand in your pocket and getting the taxpayer and supporters to pay off the debt burden created.

Having talked to some of the people who actually run the street football scheme (not councillors). I can tell you that the main funding comes direct from Renfrewshire Council (£200,000). Cash back funding is £38,000. You can come on here and call me a 'diddy' and swear at me all you like, but that is a fact. The scheme does run well and would not benefit from the involvement of Mr. Atkinson. Everything he touches turns to dust eg. the Club shop, and frankly judging by your foul mouthed input to this web site, the last thing it needs is the involvement of you with a new CIC / Co-Op crown on. I am still waiting for evidence, preferably in writing (scan it in and download it to us) that Councillors stopped your beloved CIC. Surely your good 'buddie' Richard has a copy he can lend you. If you cannot suppy this I will have to assume that you simply made that bit of the story up to cover up the fact that a national funding body did not want to touch the idea with a 20 foot barge pole.

Hi Sid, I note you have not refuted my accusation of a financial incentive being involved in your worship of Mr. Atkinson and the CIC / Co op. I note you have not produced any evidence (writen or otherwise) of your claims that councillors stopped the CIC plan. No evidence of your claims on the planning issue either. A phone call to the Council (as I did) will confirm they provide around £200,000 to the street football scheme. About £38,000 comes from the Cash Back to Communities scheme. Financial input from others is minimal - please feel free to phone Wisemans and ask. I think they do help sponsor a separate SFA football scheme. The Council had no involvemnat in running the Club at any time (can you prove otherwise ? ) and lent the Club a very large sum of money at very low intrest when financally the Club was very near to going out of business. So Sid - Time to put up or shut up ! Stop trying to shift the blame to others and at least try and get at least some of your facts right.

"he has contributed a lot to the club behind the scenes since he and Chris joined the board" - Please tell me what on earth he has contributed - the back of a postage stamp will probably do.

You seem to worship the ground that Richard Atkinson walks on. I have to wonder why that is ? Is there perhaps, as I was told at the game yesterday, a little incentive involved here ? I think we should be told the truth Sid. You seem determined to shift the blame for the failure of the CIC and the Co-op mark 1/2/3 from Mr. Atkinson to some unnamed councillors. If you have any proof of this I think we should see it. In writing please. If not I again have to question your motives in all this. The only person I see on here opposed to the Black and White knight's fantasy football schemes, and who mentions political parties, is a guy by the name of Ed from Glenburn who says he votes Labour ! Why would local councillors, from any Party, have a say in deciding the funding of Mr. Atkinson schemes ? Is it not far more likely that the funders took a cold hard look at the schemes and simply said - no way ? I seem to remember that it was SNP councillors who, with a couple of Labour ones, voted against official advice, to grant planning permission for our new ground. Without that decision St. Mirren would have gone out of business a few years ago. I also seems to remember the Council lent St. Mirren a large sum of money in a low interest loan for a long number of years which kept the Club going when things were really bad. You only have to look at the Club web site to see the many things the Council and St Mirren are doing in the community together. The street football scheme is a good example of this. I don't know how much income this puts through the Club's books but it's probably quite a lot. I am sure that no one, including even me, wants to "scupper" REAL fan ownership but I cannot support Mr. Atkinson's schemes. All in all, I think you are too keen to shift the blame away from your good friend Richard and on to someone else.

It would seem that SMISA are having similar communication problems with our black and white knight.

OK. For the third time....................

You are well named. That was very tedious Tom. I am not against a fans co-op controlled by the fans. But in this scheme it is clear that despte what he now says, this one will be firmly in the grip of Mr. Atkinson and certainly NOT the fans. This is not so very far removed from events down the road. The Co - op will rely on public money borrowed by and controlled by Mr. Atkinson.

Perhaps the attached file will make their position clear. God help us all if Mr. Atkinson has his way.

Hi, Been away for a few months makin a movie. It's really good fun you should all go and see it. Looks like no further on with the takeover scam, sorry scheme then. How long are yu all going to wait ? It is not time for Mr. A to announce his latest cunning plan (number 3 I think). Kermit says Hi cos being green he's a Hi bi supporter. Ha ha ha ha !

In my opinion the supporters of this fine Club have been misled. Time will tell, but if the CIC scheme does not come to pass serious questions have to be asked. The Club's AGM cannot be long away (November I think), perhaps that will be the place to put an end to this. Mr. Gilmour told us all on TV that the process would be completed in 7 to 10 days. That was 14 days ago. I seem to remember Mr. Atkinson told us it would all be done by August. How long do we have to wait ? If there are a number of supporters willing to 'donate' £10 a month to the club then perhaps a better scheme can be produced which would give them a real share (or shares) in the Club without robbing the Taxpayer or running up massive debts. The sooner the CIC scheme is brought to a conclusion -one way or the other - the better. I understand that Mr. Gilmour and the other directors may want to cash in their shares, but there are many business owners who are in a similar position. If they want to sell they should consider reducing the valuation of the shares. If they don't want to do that they have to stay in post, or perhaps resign from the Board and let us appoint some new directors from existing shareholders. Life - and St. Mirren - will go on regardless.

Hello Drew. Are you well

Glad you are now starting to see the point Mr. Sid. Few 'capable' people would want anything to do with the detailed setup of the 100000000000 hours CIC. Few people with any real business experience would want to help promote a scheme where supporters are encouraged to pay off the debts run up by a third party so that the third party (Mr. A) can get contol of the Club. Perhaps Mr. McGeoch could give you a hand. :D

Michelle Evans has been a good friend and supporter of this Club for many years. It is a sad day when so called fellow supporters like you turn on her. It is now clear that anyone not supporting the CIC are to be treated as second class supporters.

Yes you are. I simply asked a few relevant questions and all I seem to get is abuse in return. God help us if this the kind of treatment ordinary (non CIC) supporters can look forward to when you and your friends have taken over the Club I have supported for over 40 years. I do not look forward to being a second class supporter. Is is so hard for Mr. Bell to tell us all:- If Mr. Gilmour met with SMISA and persuaded them to change their minds. A simple YES or No would do. For Mr. Atkinson to tell us:- Is it true that the CIC funders will not hand over the cash unless a supporter's organisation will back the bid ? I really have to wonder if SMISA members understand that every penny of their money will simply go to Mr. Gilmour and will not financially benefit the club in any way. ?

OOOOOOOOoooooooooooo hit a wee nerve here I think !

Heard an interesting story today at the game. Can St Sid or anyone else or even 1000000000 hours (the length of time this deal is taking) confirm or deny it ??? 1) SMISA had first agreed to hand over their £50,000 to Richard Atkinson with unknown conditions. 2) SMISA had a change of heart and said sorry but no thanks. 3) Mr. Gilmour met with SMISA and persuaded them to change their minds again. Is it true that the CIC funders will not hand over the cash unless a supporter's organisation will back the bid ? Does it seems OK for Mr. Gilmour to be asking SMISA to hand over their cash to Mr. Atkinson so that he can pass it right on to Mr. Gilmour ? Are you there Mr. Bell ? Why does the SMISA web site not work ? Is any of this true ?