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I can only speak for myself but I believe strongly in fan ownership, which is why I backed 10000Hours first, and then BTB. This proposal delivers fan ownership. SMiSA are literally asking their members if they want to proceed. If the members say no then it won’t proceed. That is exactly how it is supposed to work.

You said SMiSA currently has no power, yet they own over 25%. Apparently Kibble, with the same shareholding, are going to run riot and have the club on it's knees! Which is it?

My question about Kibble would be what about existing spend they make with the club. I believe they spend quite a lot hiring and using the facilities at the stadium at the moment. It would be good to put a figure on that level of revenue and then to understand how or if that would be affected if they were part owners.

The original and current BTB deal would have seen SMiSA eventually own 71% of the shares. A majority shareholding. The proposed new deal will see SMiSA owning 51% of the shares. A majority shareholding. 51% fan ownership is the model that the whole of German football is based on. Owning 71% or 51% makes little difference. SMiSA will have control over the football club. In the same way that Gordon currently has control. The major decisions that are listed as all parties having to agree on are all the sort of things that you’d absolutely expect all SMiSA members to be consulted on such as changing the name of the club, putting in AstroTurf, issuing new shares and taking out massive loans. Bringing fan ownership in 5 years early isn’t really the big selling point here IMO. Fan ownership will happen with or without Kibble and I don’t personally think it will actually take as long as 5 more years anyway. The crux of this IMO is for the members to decide whether Kibble bring something worthwhile to the party or not.

It says there that any "major decisions" can only happen if all three parties agreed. Those "major decisions" are defined in section 2.9 though; But you are right, that does need clarified because with the best will in the world partners will never all agree on all things at all times. As the majority shareholder I'd expect SMiSA to be the only one with the full power of veto. One to ask at the meeting I think!

I haven't read that bit. Kibble have a veto on any major decisions? Where did you read that mate?

Everyone is free to terminate their membership at any time as far as I am aware? I'd be very hopeful that the reverse is true. More St.Mirren supporters should be looking to join the trust now that they know fan ownership is now just 2 years away rather than 7. Assuming SMiSA membership drops from £12 a month to say £5 a month (just an example) from the end of 2021 instead of 2026 all those SMiSA members will save themselves £420. They will be furious!

The St.Mirren Independent Supporters Association will own the majority of the shareholding under this proposal. In short, the fans will own the club. Subscriptions have been ring fenced which is why we are able to commit to finishing the deal by the end of 2021 having already paid up £300K. The extra money loaned for the Astro park was approved by members, and is close to being repaid through the £2 sacrifice that members again approved.

It's not a merger. SMiSA will own 51% of the shareholding of the football club if this goes through. That is the same level of shareholding that every club in Germany operates on. SMiSA will appoint 75% of the directors of the football club board. Kibble will have 25%. The SMISA members are being asked to approve the proposal. If they don't, it doesn't happen.

That's why the members are being asked to approve it I guess? If the SMiSA members don't want it to happen, then it won't. They are the folks who have put up a 10 year commitment to pay for the majority shareholding of the club so that seems fair enough to me.

End of the day it's good to have constructive debate on this as it's a big deal. My question I guess would be what is the difference between SMiSA owning 71% as opposed to 51%? Apart from having two Kibble directors on the board, what is the actual material difference to what BTB promised? I'm open to be persuaded either way but it's difficult for me to see a downside in this as it stands right now?

The members of SMiSA will get to appoint 75% of the directors who sit on the board once the takeover is complete. "Sidelined" indeed.

So what you are saying is that it's your opinion that a 27% shareholder, with a quarter of the seats on the board, will be running the club as opposed to the shareholder with 51% and three quarters of the seats on the board. It's important to differentiate your own opinion from facts that are written down on the website.

Kibble will get two places on the club board, starting in the interim phase and continuing thereafter. Under the terms of the legal agreement if the board was to expand in future the number of directors would reflect the percentage shareholdings – so Kibble will always have at least a quarter of the board and SMISA at least half. Kibble are making a substantial investment in St Mirren – both financially and in terms of staff time – so their board reps will oversee how that is managed. We see this as a positive – Kibble are a massive Scotland-wide organisation for whom good governance is crucial. They can bring substantial skills, experience and contacts to St Mirren’s boardroom. Whoever Kibble choose to fill those places would have to be mutually agreed with SMISA. So, erm, it doesn't say they will be running the club then?

Can you point out the bit where it says Kibble will be running the club please? Much obliged, I must have missed it!

They are a non-profit making organisation, That just means any profits they do make are re-invested back into the organisation rather than paid out to shareholders.

To put the Kibble investment into context, at around £300K...... Two years ago they spent £3m setting up a Go-Kart track in Hillington.

SMiSA will own the majority shareholding of the football club. 51% is a majority shareholding. Maybe you missed that bit in the proposal.

So a shareholder (SMiSA) with 30% has had no input, and this is the basis of your argument that a shareholder (Kibble) with 27% will have "effective control" of the club? Well, that sure makes sense!

Are you still a Smisa member? Left the Smisa commitee Have a read through the 10000Hours archive and show me how you "saw it through"

For an opening post this is quite an incredible mis-reporting of what is being proposed by the way. Gordon isn't going anywhere. Kibble aren't taking over. Kibble are merely buying shares from Gordon that SMiSA don't need to complete fan ownership of the club. That brings fan ownership into reality 5 years earlier than planned and brings us the expertise of a 160 year old Charity who have a turnover 10 times that of St.Mirren.

Run that effective control part past us. I'm intrigued by how a shareholder with 27% will have "effective control" whereas the trust, with 51% will apparently have none. Spin that record for me!

Hates SMiSA. Hates Gordon Scott. Hated 10000Hours. Surprised to see LPM being opposed to this. Very surprised.

Beyond grateful to everyone who first of all pledged to join in and then dug deep to donate, especially just three days before Christmas. We've got a truly amazing group of supporters, who all have the right values and right priorities. The 5 point tally gave us a pledge total of £13240 and as you can see we've already smashed it. JustGiving is showing £13464 donated already. Quite incredible. Donations continue to come in. Totally overwhelmed! THANK YOU! https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/12pointsofchristmas

There always someone looking for a negative angle on things. i genuinely made a bit of a fun post on Monday challenging the team with the hope of raising a few quid for the FoodBank. Ive done this before with goals meaning donations to the NorthBank. The donation was made on behalf of the website, not me personally. The site raises a wee bit every month through advertising and this is me giving back. I didn’t ask anyone else to join in, but it completely blew up and before we knew it 500 had joined in and pledged. After getting spanked on Weds night with the wind taken out our sails a wee bit I opted to just go ahead and open the donations page early. A few days on and £2K already guaranteed in donations. Im proud of that, and desperately hope we get thousands more. I’ve spoken to Ian today as I’ve been very surprised by some of the stuff that’s been written about this. He’s someone I know well and I’ve always found him to be a really nice bloke so I’m not entirely sure where this has all come from tbh! Hopefully I’ve clarified things with him and put his mind at ease. This was never supposed to be anything but a positive but you know, negativity is never far away.