ktf

The principle is exactly the same though... His motivation may or may not be pure, but they doesn't make it ok. It's council money. And besides, as I've already said, coincillors are transient - when he's gone, who's to say the next tranch of SRTBs will be trustworthy with our club?! If the CiC is a risk, this is a million times greater. It genuinely concerns me. Not for political or personal reasons but purely because it has far too many dynamic variables that could alter at any time, all of which could put our club onto seriously dodgy ground. I'd honestly rather have Massonne than this bunch - SNP, Lab, Lib Dem or anyone.

I'm sorry, but if you don't read the article then it kind of invalidates your point. L*wason said they they would bid "if the CiC failed", which is a wee side project they have been working on for 2 years now - the failure of the CiC. Hey, I'm thinking of running as a councillor in the local election in a couple of years' time. I am also really, really interested in ferret baiting. There is thriving ferret baiting community in Renfrewshire and one of Paisley's leading ferret baiters, Franco "the master baiter" Wanko is is has floated his ferret baiting team (the Wanko Engine) on the FTSE 250. 52% of the shareholding is due to be up for sale in a few years when Franco retires. It's valued at about £1.5M. If I get in when I run in a couple of years, I'm going to table a motion for the council to buy the 52% shareholding in the Wanko Engine as I think it is a worthwhile investment for the cash-strapped council to make. After all, it's perfectly reasonable for me to table that motion to spend millions of pounds of the council's money on a personal hobby of mine, isn't it?! It's especially good as it isn't my own money... I won't have to put a penny in.

I have said "yes" to Q4 on my personal membership. I'll be saying no for my community group membership - for exactly the reasons you state.

I spat my flat white, made in my gaggia classic with bottomless portafilter, using bei & nannini gold roast ground in my iberital MC2, across the room! Sid is doing everything he can to distance himself from everyone now in the hope that it makes him seems more... Aloof? Mysterious? Cool? The SNP (let alone the majority Labour contingent) will never agree to funding the CiC. Add to this the fact that, if by some miracle they did, it wouldn't be "here have a wad of cash, use it wisely". It would have more strings attached than an episode of Thunderbirds. Our club and the CiC would be hamstrung. Sid knows this is the most awful idea that has been spoken of regarding St Mirren since StuDick suggested some text message service... But he's not wanting to be pigeonholed as it goes against his renegade image! Fair play Sid.

You're right. There is scope for political groups to be involved in football. To boost the interest and think seriously about grad-roots involvement. However, a political party/group should never own a football club. They are a transient group and the people who are there today will not be in 5 years time. What happens if the council leader hates football or is more interested in, oh I don't I know, making the High Street more attractive to retailers or is a m*rton/C*ltic/yeolder*ngers fan and has no interest in diverting council money to keep the club afloat during tough times? It's incredible that some people have been critical of the CiC an REA and then rejoice at this nonsense!

This is spot on! Added to that the fact that these particular "politicians" worked tirelessly to bring down the first CiC model - the one which was closest to true fan ownership and that had even more folks in favour of. The reason we are at mk3 is due to the SNP - no-one will believe them if they claim they are support of community ownership. Oh, maybe they are also too thick to realise they don't have a majority on the council anymore - labour will tell them to get tae! They can then blame labour for not being in support of community involvement and fan ownership and try to score political points on the back of our club. They are shameless individuals with no other agenda than political points scoring. The content of their characters are seriously in question.

If you read Brian Lawson's statement, it's pretty clear! They have no interest in funding the CiC. They have been dead against it since the start - actively working to see it fail. It was SNP's intervention that brought down CiC1. The will categorically not get involved with the CiC, if they progress with this hair-brained idea it will be a rival bid. There will be no fan involvement and the club will be run on political agendas. The nature of the CiC means that it will attracts investment and over time the revenue streams will increase. There will be no option for that under these plans. This is quite probably the worst possible thing that can happen to our club! And besides, the council are labour led now, not SNP, so I don't even see how they could actually manage this.

Actually fellow Buddie, far from it. My problems with this are many but here is one - I simply don't trust politicians. Particularly ones who aren't good enough to be MP/MSPs but instead piss about on local councils. Politicians have an agenda, they always have an agenda. They are driven, not by a genuine concern for the people but for a wonder-lust of their own ego. They need to keep their seat and so they are short-termist. They can't make decisions autonomously because the are driven by partisan values and beliefs and their own head or heart is over-ruled by party politics and election manifestos. Politics is possibly the least transparent sphere in our society where no-one is held accountable for anything and if it looks like you might have done something stupid you sack an aide. If people thought that 10000 didn't provide enough information, REAs communication will seems as clear and transparent as a sworovski crystal champagne flute compared to what you will NOT get from this bunch of self-serving n'er-do-wells. This is quite possibily the worst f**king idea I've heard on these forums in the years I've been posting here. I'd rather have Angelo Massonne buy the club than this bunch of gormless, ill-meaning f**ktards.

Not the bridge mate, I'm not the type, but the thought is f**king abhorant to me. Reprehensible, disgusting individuals!!! There will be an official inquiry as to why the SNP councillors in Renfrewshire put pressure onto John Swinney not to sign off the Social investment grant for CiC Mk1. If it is found to have not been signed simpy because they had their own agenda to buy the club and not on any genuine objection grounds, head will role. That will be worth seeing.

I changed my mind and voted no, no, no, yes. Everyone should be allowed a "reborn saint moment"'

I'm sorry but these questions are loaded and quite frankly very disappointing. I had expected information upon which to base my decision, not baseless rhetoric that allows no-one to make an informed decision. I am abstaining from this vote.

At this moment in time, nothing is going to move on this issue. The consortium are not going to sell to anyone - let alone the council, Ticketus, Charlie Green or whoever else Aninal is getting exited about. For whatever reason (BII or simply financial prudence) 10000 Hours aren't going to buy the club right now. We have a stalemate type situation and that won't change until the majority of SPL chairman (our own included, hopefully) vote No to Newco. At which point we'll have info from Sky and the other corporate sponsors on what they intend to do next. We'll know then whether the club will be sold to 10000 Hours or someone else. The stage we are at just now is rather unfortunate as it is frustrating and no-one really knows what is going on - opening it up to wild speculation and more ridicule. In, however, this could be the perfect opportunity for 10000 Hours to wok hard on the 3k and 25k memberships. It could also be used to spread the word further afield for folks interested in the standard membership. Info should be getting released about the benefit to local businesses, charities and community groups should be getting contacted to inform them of the possibilities available to them if 10000 Hours gets club ownership. 10000 Hours should be finding a way to get the information that is being asked for on here and by others like SMiSA to them in the most confidential way possible. Regular fans who have signed up and believe in the model should be gathered, given information and leaflets etc to hand out to family and friends and the pub and wherever else. In short, Everything should be happening to get as many people on board and make this work. This wee delay in the selling process (to whomever) is the prefect chance for these things to happen. We appear to be in a situation now where the deal will be accepted or rejected no matter what happens with the number of sign ups. It seems to be all down to BII and Sky. This surely removes the need for confidentiality, allowing the likes of SMiSA to get the info to their members for a ballot on whether to join and also so the likes of Sid can be fully informed. One of the main problem, for which REA has apologised, is that 10000 Hours haven't informed the fans (now potential members) what is going on at each stage. Lessons must be learnt. There is a chance to rectify this, get more people, community groups and corporate types on board and potentially influence the lenders even more that this is what the fans and community want. This chance can't be missed. 10000 Hours and the club must also make a statement about the Newco situation. They need to be clear to fans what they intend to do, either way. Make no mistake however, a YES vote would be extremely detrimental to the 10000 Hours cause and would ultimately be fruitless as it seems the majority of other clubs are now NOs anyway. Sadly this delay time has been used as a good opportunity for mudslinging and a game of who can shout the loudest. It now needs to be turned into something positive and used to get as many more fans etc on board as possible, get as much information out as can be practically done and inform the St Mirren support on the Newco intention. 10000 Hours, please don't waste this oportunity. I'm available, you know my number, contact me to do any of the above - I'm sure many others are in the same position - we just need the tools and the info to do it.

Yeah well, have some answer about monetizing something or other stuff anthat innit!

Forum clown...

Mental reborn is reborn!!! Div was simply showing us what 'Well are providing thier fans by way of questions. We'll get something similar. Again, Div gets abused for sharing info. Bang out of order.

Son I'm not the one who can't comprehend that someone would work for nothing because they believe in a cause... Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean everyone else is as selfish. You contribute nothing to these forums except abuse and it is dished out without thought or prejudice. You name call and are very offensive towards other posters then when you are quoted on it you get even more abusive and defensive as if you are allowed to express your views in whatever language you like but no-one else is. Oh and I almost forgot, when you realise you have Ben defeated in a public discussion you PM members asking/threatening then to "meet-up". Very low.

Not everyone is a self-serving, selfish, self-centred ego-maniac... There are people in they world who give up their win time and money to help others simply because they believe in the cause and that it is the right thing to do. I supposed if you have never done that or considered being less self-centric then it might seem impossible to you.

It's downright disgraceful how Div has been treated on these forums. Oaksoft, Sid, Chic appearing out of nowhere with once of his many aliases, and other too - you know who you are. Div has and continues to work tirelessly for the St Mirren community (got that now Sid) and has decided that he is in favour of the 10000 Hours bid. Because of these two things he has been a bit more involved at this stage than others have - is that any reason to accuse him of lies? Some people on here need to take a long hard look at themselves and think seriously before posting another thing on this site. Some of the things levelle at Div have been downright disgusting!

Most importantly? REA and CS have a legal standing within the club in that they are both directors and one of them is an official officer bearer as secretary. GLS also has a legal standing within the club as he owns a significant number of shares - enough to see him on the board of the football club is he chose to stand. As you continue to insist that 10000 Hours isn't the 1000 strong fan base that has sign up as members but the two or three who have put it together, by your own rationale 10000 Hours have a perfectly legitimate legal standing within the club. It's good to have cleared that lie up. Secondly, what is a legal standing to be representative of the St Mirren support? Ok, I'll answer that, there isn't such a thing. But morally, who has the right to claim that privilege if not 10000 Hours with their 1000 members? SMiSA with their 80 odd members? The things is, the selling consortium and the St Mirren BoD have decided to consult the fans on the NewCo issue. That was their choice, the fans have no right to this consultation. The BoD/Selling Consortium have chosen to ask 10000 Hours to carry out this consultation. Again, there is no obligation and so the fans have no right for complaint who carried it out. 10000 Hours are interested in buying the club and once they have they will have to have a system in place to gather the views on their members on loads of different issues. What better way of trialing this system than with the NewCo consultation that they have been asked by the BoD to carry out? Why would 10000 Hours then compromise a good chance to trial their systems in a live environment by opening it up to anyone who is interested in registering an opinion, like 2000 R*ngers fans? Or alternatively, why would they open it to those who have chosen not to sign up as members, who have not committed to supporting the company and, some of whom, are openly confrontational and abusive about the individuals who are at the centre of the company? John, if I could be bothered, I could do that with every one of your posts, but I don't have the time or the inclination. You stated in one thread a couple of months ago, before you sit the dummy and became a turncoat, that you could sink the CiC in a matter of days if you chose to... Conversely, you have helped contribute to 1000 members signing up in a matter of days! Everyone of your posts is lies, spin, nonsense, emotive drivel, inane ramblings and pish-soaked-bawbaggery (your own phrase ) It's become boring and repetitive and you have lost all of your forum credibility. To save myself the time that I would doubtless spend rubbishing another of your posts in a few days time when I have read enough of your shite again - I am putting you on ignore.

I realise we haven't been given all the info in order to make an informed choice. However on this occasion, all the info in the world won't change my mind. I believe we'll survive and I believe cheats don't. Do for me, it always has been as always will be: NO TO NEWCO

Sid is now in full meltdown mode and the extent of his pop knowledge on finance, business and constituted organisations had been stretched to snapping point.

Utter nonsense! So you're suggesting 60% of St Mirren's income sits in the bank unspent IN CASE Sky pull out? Or maybe they could spend it on flower beds for the area around the car park? If we didn't budget it we'd be relegated, and not just to the first! Remove 60% of St Mirren's income and we're competing with 2nd Div sides. Oh and we can sack 90% of the non playing staff too as there'd be no money to pay them. Elvis, you're the first to moan about players and poor performances when the team lose and now you are advocating a business model that will see us lose, most likely, every match next season and the one after, whilst stockpiling cash in the bank unspent!

Billy, sorry bud but this is bonkers talk! The reason R*ngers were liquidated, K*illie and the D*ng aren't far off and others are following closely behind is because they ended up with astronomically high wage bills in comparison to their income. The answer for St Mirren is not to stick their fingers in their ears and sing "nah nah" very loudly. The correct course of action is to be up front an honest. Which is what is happening now and why the sale hasn't gone ahead. And to reply to your post before this one, of 60% of St Mirren's income relies on TV and corporate sponsorship deals then that is simply that. "They should take what's coming to them" has nothing to do with it. I'm willing to bet that almost 100% of your household income comes from one source - job, benefits, pension etc.. Does that mean that you deserve all you get if your employer goes bust or the government changes the benefits entitlement or you pension scheme goes tits up? St Mirren, as all clubs have, have budgeted the TV and sponsorship money into the general running of the club. Are you suggesting they shouldn't spend 60% of their income in case the company providing it say bye bye? That would be ridiculous and see us relegated immediately as we didn't have good enough players to compete. In the same way that you would spend the large percentage of your household income that comes from one source, St Mirren have plans to spend they 60% of their income that comes from one type of source. It's naive to assume they'd do any different.

You accuse of emotive outrage M*therwell have put their consultation to the Well Society (specifically signed and and paying members of a organisation). If you can provide us all with the information on how the other clubs are consulting their members (every fan, as you claim) I'd be keen to see that. The CiC has sought to being the St Mirren community together. Some like BtB and (in fairness to him) somner9 have made their stance clear from the offset and have stood with the St Mirren community but from an opposing stance. You have actively sought to bring fracture to the St Mirren community. You know as much as I do that this is a diddy football fans' forum (sorry Div) and isn't the real world. However what is said on here has a very real impact in the real world. My suggestion to you, if you genuinely want to be heard in all of this, is to put your concerns and suggestions to the BoD by email, writing or phone. I'm sure they will be more than accommodating.

Disgraceful post Sid! I have ignored most of the nonsense written in this thread but this is complete and utter bollocks and you know it. The BoD of SMFC are asking the CiC members because, as the statement says, they form a 1000-person strong voice in the club. If 10000 Hours didn't exist, there would be no consultation. You don't want to sign up cos God know why and you make a big song and dance about not doing so and then you make a big song and dance about not being afforded the privilege that signed-up CiC members have. You can't have it both ways. Sign up and earn the right to have your say. Don't sign up and don't have the right. But you simply can't not sign up then demand the rights that are given to those who have. This is the future of our football club and you seem to think it is fair game to play around with. Of all the stuff you have posted, this is totally shameful!