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I tell you what it clarifies, that you’re as good at using the sub quote tool as me. 🤣. As for your response, I was reading it intently until you used the word separatists. I stopped reading then and heaved a very heavy sigh. Edited only to add. Being British and the United Kingdom are not the same thing. People in an independent Scotland would still be British if they do chose to be. Great Britain is not a Sovereign nation. The United Kingdom is.

Apologies if this is messy (don't know how to "sub quote" individually posts on here), but attempting to answer your points in order. Scotland may well have been bailed out by the construct of the union, but forgive me for basing my view on things that have happened since the birth of my great granny's great granny. Are you seriously holding up the events of some 300 years ago, as justification for how Scotland has benefitted from the union? Is that the best you've got? I don't know whether you follow a communist philosophy or a socialist one. Communism has been proven time after time to be a failed ideal (albeit a naively well meaning one in concept). As for socialism, I am certainly a socialist in the sense I believe firmly in social justice. Furthermore I believe Scotland to be a socialist country at heart and I strongly believe that in an independent Scotland, the government of choice would more often than not be a socialist one. I pay zero heed to the teachings of Christ (I am not religious in the slightest) nor the teachings of pontificating scholars AKA "philosophers". I make my own mind up about things. I listen to the "teachings" of everyday people. Even you Antrin! How on earth can the desire for Scotland to determine it's own future, be skewed to mean we are demarcating against the nationality of others? On the contrary, I want a Scotland that I have zero doubt would be considerably more open to other nationalities, races and creed's that rUK would appear to be. Also loving your use of the word "Nationalist". I have no doubt you are using it in the same tired and familiar way we have become used to from Unionists i.e. in a thinly veiled inference to right wing politics or fascism. What a load of nonsense. I am not even close to being a Nationalist in that sense and I would never refer to myself as a Nationalist. I am a supporter of self determination/independence. Not even close to the thing your are referring to. And trust me, rUK (and in particular England) is far, far closer to the right wing/fascist state you imply. That's what we're trying to get away from! Finally, as I have indicated above, as far as I'm aware I have never said categorically that "socialism can't work", but it does depend on the brand of socialism. I do believe that the pre 1980s, Citizen Smith/Comrade this, Sister that nonsense has died a death, but I do believe left of centre politics with a social conscience is the way forward and I believe that is how an independent Scotland would forever be run. It may surprise you to know that at the age of 15 I joined the Young Socialist Party and at the age of 18 joined the Communist Party (Govan branch). I then moved to Jersey and (in my opinion) grew up.

For clarity (perhaps the use of emojis would have helped) my final comment was tongue in cheek and not intended to be taken seriously. However, let me tell you what I think is simply comical. Your outdated, quaint, left wing notion of people working together for the common good. The ravages of capitalism indeed. That’s a cracker. You might as well say the ravages of human nature. When during the last couple of hundred years that you mention have you seen rUK (and in particular Westminster) working for the common good of Scotland. You to suggest that Scotland has “benefitted” from the union. I believe the opposite it true. I believe the union has benefitted from Scotland. Just another thing we disagree on that neither of us would be able to prove either way. Independence by definition is a leap of faith. In 2014 insufficient people were prepared to take that leap of faith for varying reasons. That I cannot dispute. But things change. Some bloody big things change. Federalism? Nah not for me. Simply an (albeit relatively significant) extension of the devolved or local governments we already have. We’d still be run by one central government and let’s face it, that would still be Westminster. Finally, why do you continue to suggest that my disagreeing with your viewpoint means that I think my opinion is “more worthy of expression” than yours? Surely I could just level that criticism at you too. Can’t we simply disagree on things. I think we both know that we are coming from fairly entrenched positions and debate it probably futile. But just to be absolutely clear, I DO respect your opinion. I just don’t agree with it.

Referenda may be blunt tools but without them we typically had either subjectification or war. How would you suggest a majority support achieve independence? Go down and ask the nice Tories in Westminster if we can have our country back? I suspect you probably think Scotland should just shut up and do what it’s told like most others down your way.

The game against West Brom remains one of the best games of football I’ve seen in my life.

Ordinarily I’d hear you loud and clear Oaky and I’d go as far as saying I’d begrudgingly agree with you. However, I struggle to get past the fact that the 2014 No vote was founded on at worst barefaced lies or at best false promises. Not just wee white lies either. Big whopping game changers. How can that vote be held up to scrutiny when so many (particularly swithering voters who need guidance) were so shamelessly misled. Realistically, even if one was called tomorrow it would be unlikely to be anytime soon. Let’s call it 2024. 10 years seems like a nice round number to me.

Fair play, we all have our own view on priorities. I put self determination front and centre. If I had a vote I’d continue to back the best vehicle for achieving that. Once it is achieved, then it’s back to a personal opinion on who you want to run the country. I’m far less wed to SNP than I am to independence.

I hope you’re right Oaky but I have serious doubts. whilst I would hope that any serious independence supporters could see past the machinations of a few rogue politicians, if this turn out to be true I fear oor Nic could’ve kicked the independent movement squarely in the bollocks. And IF it turns out to be true, I will be genuinely disappointed as I was daft enough to think that Nicola Sturgeon was a rare breed of politician who played with a straight bat.

To be honest I was thinking more about the players than the fans

Yes but in the event that Celtic won their last 7 matches and Rangers lost their last 7 matches then there’s a fair chance that a 22 goal difference would be turned around anyway. The bottom line is, no matter how unlikely a Celtic comeback might be, until it’s mathematically impossible, then Rangers can’t be crowned champions. Anyway, I’m sure they’d much rather win it in their following match.

Like I said, I’m a stickler for the facts. 🤣

No they don’t.

I didn’t think God was Shull. I thought he was Cap’n, Wendy, Hiram etc.

Yes but you said we would need to beat Hamilton. We wouldn’t. A draw could be enough depending on GD. I’m being pedantic I know, but I’m a stickler for the facts. 😘

There was talk of Rangers being able to win the league against us on Saturday, but by my calculations they can’t. Even if they beat Livi on Wednesday and us on Saturday, they can’t win the league until Celtic have played and lost and Celtic don’t play until the Sunday. Agreed?

In any case, Accies and Rangers victories would certainly be most welcome on Wednesday night.

Well if St. Johnstone aren’t going to win all three, why would we definitely need to beat Accies?

Accies away and Hibs/RossCo at home.

I think on reflection I’d rather we achieved top 6 this season by any means, if the alternative is simply to learn our lessons and try again next year as you suggest.

I can see them winning all 3 to be honest. In which case we’ll need to beat Accies and hope our GD is better...............unless we can get something at Ibrox.

Historically there have been a lot of complaints on here about JG and previous managers allegedly sending teams out at Ibrox with a view to simply not getting pumped ie. showing little change in ambition even after going a goal down. I’d almost always be in the category of I’d rather we got pumped having a go, than lose 1-0 sitting back. However, given how the land lies at the moment and the very real prospect of GD potentially deciding our top 6 status, is this one occasion where this approach would by acceptable? To be clear, I’m not promoting it, just putting the question out there.

Was out yesterday so only just got round to watching the whole game off Alba. Unless I missed it, I can’t believe no one mentioned the nailed on penalty on Shaughnessy in the first half. Absolute stonewaller. I definitely feel less lucky about the soft penalty we did get having seen that.

Whilst your scenario would probably play out 9/10 times, I would remind you that they scored first and early in the cup game. 👍

Aye, in fairness to Ronnie (who let’s face it is usually a glass half empty kinda guy on here), I think all he’s saying is that it’s unlikely we’ll get anything from those games and history/stats would suggest that’s probably a fair statement. I’m with FS in our best chance of post split points being against Livi and Aberdeen. Hibs will depend as much on what Hibs team turns up on the day as they are very inconsistent. We obviously have a chance against them. Celtic and Rangers I think we can all accept will be unlikely although of course not impossible. All that said......let’s just secure the top 6 slot first!!

Doesn’t European football pretty much pay for itself these days with the prize money even if you get punted out in the early rounds?