Stu

Too busy dealing with windfarms. I'll only speak to RA if he decides to stick a big turbine up at each corner to power the floodlights

yeah, shame on us for not attending the sole meeting so far that was announced at two days notice

Perhaps you could explain it to me seeing as I'm obviously been a thick gingy moron. Again From reading previous articles, it seems I was wrong on big issues being voted on by CIC members - fair enough, but I don't really think that is giving folk their say.

A meeting every week would be stupid, however one every month or couple of months to discuss things and put them to the vote is not asking a lot. Voting for a board of people once a year is not, in my view, having a real say in the running of the club. The executive board may be there to make sure nothing silly happens, but at the end of the day there is nothing stopping them ignoring the decisions made by the board of the CIC or of St Mirren Football Club and doing their own thing.

So we just elect folk on to a board who can then do whatever they want? A big part of this is that it will supposedly give fans a much bigger say in the running of the club, which it now seems won't be the case. And any decisions that are made can then be ignored by the executive board, who can still chose to do whatever they want.

Wonder if we'll make a move for Combe if Gallacher leaves. Without a club and was training with us (dunno if he still us).

I'm fairly sure that was something we were told CIC members could vote on, now we hear it's going to be left up to the football club's board? What exactly do the CIC members get to vote on?

So what's in it for Kibble? I'm assuming they will be getting free corporate/community membership, but what else are they getting out of the deal? Must be something or they wouldn't be doing all the work for free!

Does everything the CIC members vote for have to be ratified by this executive committee? So if they decided to vote for lower ticket prices or for the club to move to the Moon, it wouldn't go ahead without the executive board's say so. If so, is there anything stopping them knocking back that rejection then coming up with an idea of their own, such as raising ticket prices or opting for a move to Mars, without further input from members of the CIC?

There's a fairly simple solution - the club doesn't accept the CIC's bid and things carry on as before. Not great, going on the last few years, but a perfectly reasonable way to run a football club - there is no threat to the future of the club. A few of the CIC's ideas could be "borrowed" and put into place to raise more cash. All we seem to be hearing in detail is what will happen in year one - would be good to know what will happen in years two or three once things are running. It would also be nice to hear a proper contingency plan if a large number of the supporters, or four or five corporate members, decide it is not for them, pull out and can't be replaced. At the moment it seems the answer is to run around shouting "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK".

Is that not the one where Strachan made an Andy Grayesque comment about child birth after we'd turfed them out the cup?

According to the Daily Mail article from the other week (so possibly not reliable), there are two applications in to the Scottish Investment Fund - one for £1million (half grant, half loan) and one for a £300,000 loan as the maximum they give out in one go is £1million. The SIF website says it will typically be at 8 per cent. If we get the total £800k loan from then then I guess the other £400k is coming from elsewhere.

It does, but I've just realised a number of things (document, presentation, Twitter), have talked about under-utilised assets - plural - to pay the debt. What are the other under-utilised assets other than a big space in the ground that will be turned into a bar?

You should see the amount of badges they have in the QOS club shop. Any excuse for one - look: http://www.qosfcstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8&zenid=sbjeldr08r070igf04946kjkp4 They even had one when they made the semis of the Challenge Cup - suppose it's the equivalent of c*ltic releasing a DVD every 10 minutes. Can't wait for the director's commentary on coverage of the Neil Lennon candlelit vigil.

Well that clears it up slightly - however, many people seem to be getting excited about the prospect of a bar raising money for the club. That doesn't seem to be the case at all, instead it raises money to help pay off the loan. Out of interest, if 10000hours held so many conferences/events over the year that it made more than was required to pay of loans, running costs etc, what happens to the profit?

Alternatively, you can have a rather clear statement from the document released last week: "The upfront funding of the share purchase will come from organisations that specically lend to CIC type ventures. The funding to repay any debt will come from two main areas. Firstly, the enhanced trading of the assets of St Mirren FC - an area all recognise as under-utilised, especially since the stadium move. Trading can be increased by using new social enterprise businesses operated between 10000hours and a number of the community partners. The second area is the membership scheme of the CIC." I don't see anything confusing there - it clearly states the increased trading will be used to pay off the debt. The same increased trading we are later told in the document will be used to increase the player budget. How can this be possible? Edit: I'll even throw in two of div's tweets from last night to back it up further: "Richard explaining that the club has many under-utilised assets. 10000Hours intends to use these assets to generate extra revenue. " "This extra revenue will be used to help repay the debt. "

It would be handy if someone - preferably 10000hours - could make a list detailing exactly which organisation (the club or the CIC) the income generated will go to. From what you're saying it seems as if the current facilities will see money go to the club, but the new bar's profits to the CIC?

There are levels in the presentation that could be classed as the "executive board", however nothing that clearly states it. It's quite reasonable to come to the view it's been hidden - I'd been told there was a executive board level and assumed it had been left off the flow chart. Still doesn't seem to be an answer to how all this will lead to an increased footballing budget and allowing debts to be repaid - would have thought it would be one or the other. A lot of the stuff the CIC are proposing/hoping for is good, however the club should already have been doing it without a CIC.

Thanks for your answers div - an answer from the 10000hours poster would be nice now - unless that's you in disguise.

My internet connection has been fecked for the last few days and I believe my questions may have been unintentionally overlooked due to the forum reshuffle, so I'll repost them here: If the application to the Scottish Investment Fund (or whatever the Daily Mail article claimed it was) is unsuccessful, the whole thing falls apart? If it is successful, how will the loan be repaid? The document claims the increased income from the club's assets will help pay for the loan and lead to an increased footballing budget - must be a fairly big increase! What do the community organisations get for their £500 a year? I'm guessing they must be getting at least that much back or it wouldn't be worth their while, so where is that money coming from? How many corporate people have signed up so far. Is the earlier post suggesting that these are merely the five selling board members, Tony's Taxis (or whatever it's called), JD Sports and other companies with whom people at the club already have some sort of personal involvement anywhere near the mark? Fairly easy to draw that conclusion from the document.

Have a green dot for that one good sir

Perhaps another way to have increased community involvement would be to have women's football at the club. We could have a youth set-up at various age groups and they could progress on to a first team. Could potentially have hundreds of people involved at the club who weren't previously. Perhaps why that's why the person from Glasgow Ladies is involved.

So if the application to the Scottish Investment Fund (or whatever the Daily Mail article claimed it was) is unsuccessful, the whole thing falls apart? If it is successful, how will the loan be repaid? The doucment claims the increased income from the club's assets will help pay for the loan and lead to an increased footballing budget - must be a fairly big increase! What do the community organisations get for their £500 a year? I'm guessing they must be getting at least that much back or it wouldn't be worth their while, so where is that money coming from? How many corporate people have signed up so far. Is the earlier post suggesting that these are merely the five selling board members, Tony's Taxis (or whatever it's called), JD Sports and other companies with whom people at the club already have some sort of personal involvement anywhere near the mark? Fairly easy to draw that conclusion from the document.

Oh aye, he's on a fishing trip but I still think some of his points are valid - and it's certainly the case that the current selling members and Tony's Taxis (or whatever they're called) make up a large chunk of the corporate clients as it says as much in the document. Where does it say the CIC will distribute profits to the community groups? Norrie has said on the OS forum that neither Chris Stewart or Richard Atkinson will be paid - of course, that doesn't mean other directors will be. My question would be what happens if/when the CIC doesn't get the grants/loans it is after.

Despite my earlier post laughing at him, I agree. Shouldn't matter who it is that makes the post if it makes valid points, which that one does. There's also the fact that he's an anti-Gilmour man Yet is against a scheme that will get rid of him. Kibble will be one of the community packages, not the corporate ones. However, your second point is one I was thinking about earlier. What exactly do you get for your tenner a month? I know of numerous folk that will find no interest in a bar at the ground. Would also be good to know just what subjects you get a say in aside from kit choice (which other clubs already do) and ticket price.