salmonbuddie

Best description of Brexit ever, well done you!

I have read ALL of the preceding debate, my first post in this debate is #15, way back in June 2016 and before you got involved. Interestingly it was refuting the 'once in a lifetime' claim. I wasn't making 'points', I was responding to your (imo) erroneous statements. Alternatively, with my 'clever bartuard' hat on, I was responding to the points you TRY to make in your post.

Or, alternatively, they were doing their best to give their constituents what they voted for, never going to catch on, though, is it? Just like the UK in the EU then, just a pity Scotland doesn't have the same veto in the UK as the UK has (had) in the EU. I can understand people who don't want Scotland to become independent for social reasons and the like but anyone who still believes this is in denial. If you'd said John Smith you may have got some plaudits but Gordon 'Super Devo Max Federalism v2.0' does your argument no good. So you're saying that no matter what percentage of Scots want independence it's not going to happen? Really? Imagine the audacity of the leader of a party founded to pursue independence for Scotland pursuing independence for Scotland, that should be against the law. That's exactly what we're doing by seeking independence, trying to get away from BoJos and his like.

A majority of the members didn't vote against it is a statement with as much merit as this one (I voted against btw).

That's the best description of BoJos I've ever heard, well done you!

She's an exact match with the Labour Party in Scotland, then...

What you term Nationalist Scots, the vast majority of them anyway, have been fighting against what you call Capitalism since 1955, before most of us were born. We used to vote Labour then we got the red Tories, Blair and Brown. Then we saw that very same Labour Party stand shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives. Then we saw the other exploited parts of Britain that have been impoverished voting for BoJos. They rejected the Labour Party whose manifesto was promising things we already have in place in Scotland. What this tells me is that they have turned their backs on us, not the other way around. Scotland and England have drifted apart and we're getting further and further apart with every week that passes. Luckily Scotland has an alternative. And you're still not getting a vote. [emoji846]

I don't remember anyone saying you can't be Scottish if you don't live in Scotland on here, antrin, not saying it hasn't been said, just that I can't recall it. What many have said, and I'm one of the many, is that if you're Scottish but don't live in Scotland then you don't get a vote in how Scotland is governed or whether or not it should be independent. Personally, I welcome anyone with that perspective offering their opinion - I may not agree with it but I do think it's important to hear. Still doesn't give you a vote, though. [emoji846] I also think 'natsis' is beneath you, I'm surprised you seem happy to use it. ETA just read the BtB wind up, ignore the first para.

It's almost as if 75% of the electorate didn't vote for the party who specifically made their campaign about not having Indyref2...

I get where you're coming from but that groundswell has been there since I first voted in a GE over 49 years ago. Still hasn't happened - and won't while there are Tories in government. Which of the major parties in WM has zero representation in the Lords because it believes the system is wrong so won't support it?

We've been trying to change the UK political system by voting left of centre my entire adult lifetime (I'm in my 8th decade, you know), what has that got us, BiEK? An entire adult lifetime of Tory government, most of it blue, some of it red. But still Tory.

Only oaky knows what goes on in oaky's head, the rest of us mere mortals can only go by the pronouncements he deigns to pepper this medium with...we are not worthy.

We got the call for unity from Cameron - "Lead us, don't leave us" - and the first thing he did, the very next day, was introduce EVEL. We got promised a more federal system. Hasn't (and won't) happen. We got told the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. That went well. My view, and it's one I've held for a long, long time, is that an indy Scotland, a successful, left of centre indy Scotland, would be the wake up call the remainder of the UK needs. I think you know the definition of stupidity, we've been trying to have a particular style of government in Scotland my entire adult lifetime, we're still waiting. It's time for a radical change to prove we're not stupid and, imo, independence is the radical change we need.

Maybe not, BiEK, interesting position https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/01/westminster-cannot-block-scottish-independence

How about here though?

You'd win that bet. An indyref though...

Behave yourselves, you two, we can't have another indyref right now because some SNP (baaaaaad) people said 2014 was a once in a generation opportunity and everyone knows that "a once in a generation opportunity" is defined ( somewhere in someone's head) as "Not for another 50+ years so tough tumshy, Jock."

Like the Devo Max we were promised in 2014? "Don't leave us, lead us" they said, then the first thing they did was introduce EVEL thereby ensuring that no MP representing a Scottish seat could ever be PM. So much for leading, then. Tried to lead again by voting Remain in 2016, ignored again. Remind me, why would anyone believe them if they came out with shite like the federal system (again)?

I really wish you hadn't said that, just realised I am too...

Let me ponder that. Over a glass of red... [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848] Nah, f**kit, you're right, that's me been talked into opening a(nother) bottle of wine... [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Only between New Year's Day and the next game starting... [emoji846]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Thanks for proving my point. You don't care, but you have to reply to tell us you don't care... [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]