Dibbles old paperboy

... so you haven't got very far working with the draft constitution document that RA had passed on to you then?

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Richard Atkinson replied to an email today and is looking in to availability and was also asking a few questions about the number of people expected and made the point that 21st birthday parties can take many guises... so it is looking like the club are open-minded even although the CIC takeover hasn't completed yet and the new, purpose built suite presumably wouldn't be in place for the date in question. Richard's response was helpful and showed the club in a positive light.

could the same not be said about a wedding reception / christening party / 40th birthday / silver wedding anniversary etc? Not all 21 year olds are pissheads.

I have a friend who is having their 21st birthday party in November this year and they've not had much success finding a venue in Renfrewshire and was wondering if anyone knows whether St Mirren's suite could be used and what the rough costs would be and what the terms and conditions of a booking are?

I never have a spare £300 in my account in the summer so have never bought a season ticket. Find it hard to believe ther are lots of ST holders who had the money to buy a ST in one installment but can't pay £10 a month to the CIC. Maybe if you could pay your season ticket by DD in monthly installments we'd have lots more season ticket holders?

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2011/08/29/atkinson-hopes-deal-is-near-87085-29318869/

You were the one suggesting RA and co might impose a constitution on the CIC members without any chance for fans to have a say and you also said why wait until the takeover is complete before starting work on the constitution. Maybe the reason why we didn't sit down and spend a night scrutinising the 22 page draft constitution is because that might be a separate meeting and Thursday night was devoted to updates on where the funding / takeover had reached and hearing from RA, Tony Fitzpatrick and Gordon Scott. You weren't complaining about any lack of transparency when you came online after Thursday's meeting.

Pretty sure that RA invited suggestions for what should be in the constitution during the second public meeting a few months ago and was open to fans and CIC members having an input into it. If anyone has been in touch with RA since that meeting then who is to say that fans' / CIC members' contributions are not already included in the 22 page draft constitution that was brought to last week's meeting?

No mention of sponsorship at last night's meeting unless it happened in 1 to 1s after the main meeting finished.

Happy to retire from the debate for a while as I get the feeling that whatever is posted in a favourable way about last night's meeting that somner9 will attempt to rubbish or scoff at the progress being made, and when the CIC going through is now a formality it doesn't need me or anyone else posting here to defend its credibility from the mudslingers. Was happy to contribute by adding my memories of what was discussed at the meeting but I think between Sid, Div, Poz etc every topic and question and answer has now just about been relayed to the B&WA. Will take a back seat and will await more news from RA and co with interest.

As the first sentence of my previous post which you quoted made clear last night's meting was also helpful in updating us on where the CIC takeover bid is at and just about all the posts from those attending the meeting have said the deal is not yet complete and have also mentioned some of the factors which will influence the timescale and hoops which have to be gone through. It would be interesting to know when you consider the deal will be complete by the way. Is it when the final funder says that' your money ready and when the £2m is secured in a CIC bank account or is it later in he process when the consortium have been paid and their shares transferred to the CIC and after an interim board replacing the current BoD has been replaced by the 3 new boards and the full CIC set up is in full swing. When we are in full swing mode will you still be on here moaning we could have had more CIC members if only RA and co had done it the way you suggested?

I thought that the meeting was useful even though the deal is not yet complete because there were a number of issues raised which put rumours and grumblings to bed: eg Tony Fitzpatrick has lost interest in / fallen out with the CIC folks (not true), the CIC fell out with Provans or stabbed them in the back with the deal with strips and merchandising (not true), the consortium are split and losing patience with the CIC and about to seek another buyer (not true), we should be worried about RA setting up a company with SG (the reason was explained at the meeting) and concerns about merchandising and the club shop, the new bar etc were raised and answered on the night and more people handed in direct debit mandates and the skills audits where they listed ways they would consider helping the CIC. To imply that after the meeting we are no further forward than the day before the meeting is nonsense.

If I understood RA correctly most of the funding is in place but there is one funding body, and he hinted it wasn't SMISA (thus quashing another rumour), who they were waiting on to complete the deal. It sounded like RA was saying the CIC have been guaranteed the money from them and that it was a formality that the money would arrive soon but there was some technical issue at the funding body which was causing a delay. Also on the finance side a new funding body approached the CIC a few weeks ago and volunteered to give the CIC money. Some of the funders have already offered to release their money but the CIC are wanting to wait until the all of the £2m is ready to access as it will be cheaper and quicker to get one legal firm to do all the transactions in bulk than individually over a period of a few months. GLS said he would have to stand for election to the new boards and that he hoped he would get enough support from CIC members to be elected.

I think RA also said that the numbers would have worked if they only had half the target number signing up, and that with the number of fans pledging and taking out DD mandates if all the corporate members pulled out after 4 years the CIC would still have the funds to repay all the loan repayments. RA also said that he would expect 90% of those who have pledged their support to complete their DD mandate based on how CIC's usually work out and he also reckoned that more people would join once the deal had gone through and reckoned that over time it would be not unreasonable to strive to get 1250 individual members signed up (equivalent to 50% of season ticket holders).

On a serious note it is a price worth paying in the long run. St Mirren and other SPL clubs lose a few thousand pounds of UEFA money while r*ngers and c*ltic miss out on millions they were expecting... c*ltic had a big loss last year with a huge squad, massive wage bill and falling gates in the SPL and missed out on te Europa League group stages and are looking at another big loss this year. r*ngers only got a gate of 31k tonight for a crunch European game.

Another rumour quashed tonight was the consortium are losing patience with the CIC - they've had representation at the meetings with the different funders and appreciate where things are at. RA said the consortium would prefer to already have their money than not have it but are relaxed about progress.

RA also said the company that has been set up that he is on alongside the consortium members will be the method used for paying the consortium their money once the lenders transfer the money to the CIC. He estimated that between the final 1% of the jigsaw falling in to place and the lenders making their money available to the CIC and the CIC giving the consortium their money and the legal work required to do all of this we could be looking at a 6 week time frame or thereabouts and then admitted he was a bit reticent to make a predicted time frame given the track record of things taking longer than expected so far. He also said that the CIC could get up to £500k taken off their debt repayments as this figure would be seen by lenders as a return on the social investment or benefits the CIC were bringing to the local community and that some of the lenders were so enthusiastic they were happy to withhold receiving any repayments from the CIC for the first year and in one case the first five years. Tony Fitzpatrick also said the CIC had been in touch with Sir Alex Ferguson and while he had severed ties with the St Mirren board he had never fallen out with the St Mirren fans and it sounded like Fergie wished the CIC well... he also said that with the way the team had been playing Danny Lennon did not have to worry about Fergie being brought in to replace him once the CIC went through

Just back from the meeting. RA said the deal is 99% done and has been held up by a technical issue which has been dragging on for a few weeks and until the deal is done he can't share what the hold up has been but he is dying to explain it all once the deal has gone through. RA also said he has been told by the last funder that he should have no concerns about their money arriving and it is a formality. Tony Fitzpatrick answered questions and said he was aware of online rumours claiming he had fallen out with the CIC people or lost interest in it and said those were rubbish... it did sound as if he had been worried at one point that the deal might not happen or was frustrated by the delays but he is still very positive about the CIC being the way forward. Gordon Scott answered questions too and explained it has only been in the last couple of weeks that he has taken an interest in the CIC and reached the view that despite his initial ignorance of how a CIC worked and questions about how it could benefit St Mirren FC he has been won over and supports it and would consider standing for election to the new board when the deal goes through. He was asked about his own offer to buy the club and said he offered what he thought was a fair price and when he was asked whether he thought it was better that the CIC took over the majority shareholding or whether he'd been successful he said he preferred the CIC route and joked that this was because it saved him spending a fortune on St Mirren and on a more serious note he said that it can be frustrating being on the BoD and not be able to talk more to the fans about decisions and why they were made or why good things hadn't happened and he welcomed the CIC model as offering more openness with the fans as well as being able to use their skills and enthusiasm.

or what RA really said in his latest email: "Folks, Just to follow on with some more details regarding tomorrow night. Firstly as noted in the earlier e-mail we are advertising this meeting as for "members" rather than as a "public" meeting. If you are receiving this e-mail then for the purposes of tomorrow night you can consider yourself a member. The majority of people receiving this e-mail have not only pledged but also returned the completed Direct Debit form. If you are someone who has pledged but not yet returned the form then tomorrow night is your chance. You can still pledge at www.10000hours.org You can still download the forms (DD and Membership) from www.10000hours.org and we will bring a few blank ones along tomorrow. Secondly tomorrow night is not a Q & A for exploring the idea in itself, like the previous public meetings were, it is about updating those who are already committed to the cause and to start to put the flesh on the bones as to what will happen next. One of the core ideas of a Community Interest Company is engaging the individual of a Community to the benefit wider Community. In the case of 10000hours one of the aims is to harness the skills, time and contacts of the members to the benefit of the Club to this end we will send out tomorrow/make available on line, a Skills Audit Document that we would like you all to have a look at and consider returning tomorrow night. This is all just about learning who we all are and what time, talents and contacts we can bring to the table. It is abundantly clear that utilising the skills, time and contacts of the members of 10000hours for the benefit of the Club and Community represents the best route to advancing the fortunes of them both in a sustainable manner. Finally, while the purchase is not yet completed, tomorrow night will be about providing as much detail as we can about the status of the deal and the next steps. We hope the formal bit of the meeting outlined above will be quite short (although I have said that before!) and there will be plenty time to mix and meet one another as possible. Regards Richard Atkinson"

An online alias demanding that named individuals answer their questions in a straightforward transparent manner; you cannae beat it!

but a welcome respite from the usual drivel here

I take it you are the only non-nutter who has signed up to the CIC? We'll be glad to have you on board to stop all the St Mirren fans you identify as the weak link in the CIC making the project fail.