bazil85

I appreciate a lot of people don’t have time on here for posts that aren’t overwhelmingly negative

Surprised you read them, do you not usually lose your concentration after two sentences?

We have a winner with this post, surely 1. Okay so we budget for only income we can guarantee, why bother even selling players then if we aren’t going to use the income to get the club further forward? The money was there we have made it work for us and now have much more income this season given we’ve been promoted. You realise spending funds that come in (one off income or otherwise) and not more, is still living within our means? 2. So the stadium doesn’t really need big improvements, we have spent some money on it and volunteer groups have done some great work. Ralston has been improved over last couple seasons. We save money for a rainy day fund and stay in the Championship because we hvent invested in the player squad. So ultimately that rainy day fund is much less than the income that SP football can generate. Brutal business model so far and likely not one used by a single football club that has generated significant transfer income. But I’m sure you’re right and they’re all wrong... 3. What financial storm? This still remains a fantasy in your head and until you can evidence we’re going to have ongoing operational costs above our income over the coming seasons it remains a fantasy. Again what’s the long-term plan? Is it higher than the current plan to establish ourself as an SP team. How is staying in the Championship and looking at money sitting in the bank going to generate us more income to implement your strategy than the sponsor, tv, crowd, etc extra income that comes from being in a higher league? 4. So let me get this straight, you’d be happy with relegation and big cuts to our income stream as long as the board aren’t taking all these unnecessary risks that put out club in danger? All these risks that you haven’t been able to identify and certainly not evidence? You are saying our stability is at risk when we’re going to announce three years profit and increased our revenue. You’re saying that without a shred of evidence that we will have unaffordable operational costs going forward. Just think on that for a second. As for BTB fan ownership has not only worked for many clubs, it’s been a great success. This is yet more fairytale worry from you without foundation IMO well that was a fun read this morning, covered my train journey nicely. I think we can summarise by saying the strategy has worked, we’ve made profits and you’ve shared no evidence of a lurking financial ‘bust’ good job

The naivety in your post really is something to behold here. It would be like blowing a lottery win on hookers and coke if the hookers and coke started generating you even more money. Exactly what the spend has done for SMFC in getting us into the SP I gave you the example of nine years in the SP with next to no player sales. You are talking about doomsday events that recent history has shown, hasn’t happened. If you think we don’t have a strategy for relegation (for probably the first time in our recent history) please feel free to show evidence of this. IMO two things will happen this season. We stay up and have another year of SP income to play with, or we go down and implement a relegation strategy. You seem to be confusing our financial situation with club success now. We are a yo-yo club, our support level means it’s very predictable. Over the last 18 years we’ve been relegated twice, had good times and bad the difference in the second time was the financial situation we were in. It was much healthier. You are now suggesting that might not be the case now and if we get relegated this season it could potentially mean a financial bust, is that right? If so, again feel free to evidence. Because we were spending what came in, in 2014/15 as well. you say a business should be run to make a profit. The reality of SMFC making profit the last two years (when many of our rivals haven’t) set to make it this year, increased revenue income AND delivered on the football side, that being lost on you is really staggering. If you think football can be lumped together with other businesses and doesn’t have a lot more of an emotional element than others, then I’m equally glad you’re not part of our business decision making. You’ve also ignored we don’t have shareholders that take profits as their income. Another thing you are really struggling to grasp is the money was spent because it was there. Unless you have evidence we’d have/ will spend money that’s not there, it isn’t an issue. You’re talking about a doomsday that isn’t there and it is really baffling. To summarise, the board strategy has worked two years in a row resulting in profits, it is likely to result in another profit this year. This working strategy has resulted in not only profit but increased revenue streams that will mean should one off incomes not happen again, we are in a position to financially adjust. You are creating boom and bust financial fantasies by using an argument of the football bust that happens with relegation. Hopefully me pointing out the sound financial footing we were on with our last relegation may be a better indicator than what happened 18/30+ years ago is a better stat. Although feel free to show evidence that there is no plan for relegation in place or we’ll not be able to adjust our budget in the SP if we don’t sell players (like we recently did for nine seasons)

We’ll ignore you breaking two parts into three. If I was being as petty as you regarding holding onto a single use of a term and that showing a lack of ‘understanding’ on my part I might have used it. 1. I fully understand the importance in generating income and not being reliant on transfer income to move the club forward. It has nothing to do with our strategy of spending money that’s available to us to increase other revenue streams. That’s exactly what has happened. We’ve spent transfer income and we now generate SP level income as opposed to championship level income. 2. I clarified what I meant in my second post. You are the one that as above was so petty you wouldn’t let it go for about three pages. As was previously mentioned, terms were changed and it was an honest mistake, you have latched onto it as something more than it was now for the best part of three days 3. I am not confused in the slightest and the point is completely irrelevant to the strategy st Mirren use. A strategy that as above has been a success. If you think the strategy is we should sit on money and be happy in the Championship, fine. It would not be as financially beneficial as this strategy has proven to be so far. 4. I haven’t at all, you have casually ignored that this could be a completely reletatice term due to other income streams we now have from being an SP club. St Johnstone/ Hamilton two established SP clubs with similar/ lower income opportunities to St Mirren can currently afford to pay players more and survive at this level with their strategy. Strategies that also include spending money they have from whatever source. Neither have particularly large cash reserves 5. I have shown a frustration to the negativity that is systemic on here. Pointing out my belief we would have equal/ more negativity if we had recorded massive profits while languishing mid-table in the Championship 6. Again no confusion in the slightest. Running the club properly is prudent and can’t be denied given our profits and the fact no one at the club or on here has been able to evidence and of these potential disaster scenarios that we’re apparently so close to (if some posters are to be believed) the goal of SMFC will always be to deliver the best product on the park. I have simply pointed out us being in the SP is part of that. Something the current running of the club has achieved (plus profits and plus increased revenue opportunities) 7. Hopefully the above has clarified my understanding for you. I would be disappointed if you yet again return and jump on the single miscommunication which I’ve put my hands up to me quoting the wrong term. It is very much splitting hairs and petty. As I read your next paragraph it’s clear my point 7 should more or less be removed as you’ve continued with your childlike approach to this conversation. As I have pointed out many times I am in no way linked to the club bar season ticket and SMISA membership but I do work in conduct and compliance risk. If my boss or other colleagues acted in the manner you have over a strategy I support that’s been proved a success, they wouldn’t be asked to clear out their desk but there would certainly be raised eyebrows. To elude to tha tbeing fullish says more about your business acrimony than mine

It would hurt them least regarding survival as full-time clubs, it would hurt them most regarding financial loss. Football is a money business and the people that profit and run these clubs will be having absolutely none of it.

Don’t worry about it. You couldn’t possibly muster any sort of argument that it would be more financially viable to our football clubs long-term future, to still be in the championship. cheering away that we have the £300k in the bank from the Morgan sale and how that is so much better than having all the extra revenue that comes from being in a higher league. You could put that in crayon, pen, pencil or scroll it in your own dribble, it still wouldn’t make much sense to anyone with half a business brain.

Course it was. As a club (like probably all clubs at our level) we spend what we bring in. Still waiting for an answer what we should be saving for that’s over and above been a Scottish Premier league team? People are saying we should be saving money to build for the future, I’m not getting what this magic future target is.

The fact we can pick up and move on from AS shows it. If we had put all our eggs in the one basket and had no money at all left, we potentially couldn’t have sacked him, hired OK and allowed him to sign three players with more expected. Evidence that the board had a contingency plan surely.

Yet again i’ll ask, who has the crystal ball for what players would have been successful? That was the strategy used last season and it worked. Tried it again this season and it hasn’t worked, that has been down to the person signing the players this season more than anything else. It sounds like OK prefers a smaller targeted squad from the Q&A but it doesn’t mean one strategy is always right and one is always wrong. We could have signed fewer players last season and maybe he wouldn’t have picked up Hilson or Stewart but equally he might not have picked up David or Reilly.

Agreed fully. We got AS completely wrong, if anything it’s proof the board have a strategy in place that prevents against major financial events (which the wrong appointment of AS has become) in January we should run some of the new signings past the fortune tellers on here just to be sure though

And that’s your opinion, that’s not what I asked. I asked what should the strategy be? How would you have gotten SMFC, SP football this season, turned a bigger profit and given us access to all the additional income that comes with being an SP club this year? Or do you think it would be a better plan to save last season, not get promoted and only be getting championship income again this season? You realise that would have cost us money right? My point is I can’t get my head around people being critical of a strategy that has clearly worked. If you noticed earlier Billy shared a post showing we pay the second lowest wage budget (after Livi) in the league this season. So again it baffles me people coming up with these (IMO) complete myths about better plans to have us either where we are already or further up the league. If you knew what players would clearly be a success and clearly wouldn’t better than JR and AS, shame we didn’t approach you to be the manager for last/ this season.

And as has also been asked, who has the crystal ball that tells us which players would have added value and which wouldn’t? Yet again, people seem to have an issue with a strategy that has worked and return top flight football to Paisley and a profit. I’ll ask again (never received an answer to this) regarding looking at the long-term for SMFC, what should we be saving for to target that’s higher than SP football? Should we be saving for a title challenge? If someone could please tell me what strategy is better and more profitable than the current one where we have gotten into the SP and making much more money that if we were still in the Championship sitting looking at our pretty bank balance from a few good transfers, fighting Morton and Dunfermline for a play-off place. Im 100% sure if we were fannying about mid-table in the championship and announced a large six figure profit, we’d have fans moaning on here ‘why aren’t we investing in the player squad?’ As for it being boom and bust, I’m also still waiting for a shred of evidence we have spent outside budget and not money that was available to us. Happy to proven wrong on this but I’ve seen nothing so far that suggests the money we have spent risks a ‘bust’ Last part is catch 22. You’ll get fans that moan we don’t get enough money for key assets then the fans that’ll moan that we give players 2-3 year deals that turn out not to be good enough. See crystal ball comment above.

‘We will have trouble investing in the acadamey’ will we? Source please or like I say, is it needless and without foundation negativity?

Agreed

The lack of truth in this post is a touching tribute to Mr D...

Hopefully they will be. The new club call themselves Rangers now by the way...

Aye hold on while Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen jump right behind that one.

Well where were you getting the stuff about not investing in the youth academy? Was it more needless negative assumptions than actually based on anything? Again, please feel free to share your source where we are not spending/ planning to spend money on Ralston?

Brilliant to see and a brilliant message. Everything we can do as a fan base to move our club forward helps. Could be a factor in the next generation of McGinns, Morgan’s, Mallan’s, etc. COYS

I still hold out hope for the first two. No such luck on the last one and you’re right, more chance of winning the lottery than pinpointing the specific topic LPM will be moaning about on any given day never mind so far in the future. Who are the sorry souls getting the SD chat now?

Great insider knowledge there. Can you show us your source where investing in the youth team was not part of last years budget? We can ignore the £150k new pitch that the club has just put down in Ralston that youth players will use to train.

Obliged I do feel to ask you for a set of rules I should be following regarding an internet forum.

I just don’t understand how you can think we’re ‘sailing too close’ we’re a club making profit and we’re in the SP. we are also agile enough that if things went wrong we could adjust so very easily. There are many clubs in Scotland in much worse situations, with expensive, older stadiums, borrowing and in less favourable league positions than us. If that’s you done then fine but I’m still wondering what possible event could happen? Nothing likely (never mind something that we’re running dangerously close to as you’ve eluded to) from where I can see. It would have to be an extraordinary event and we wouldn’t be safe from such events even if we had banked the transfer money and sat battling it out with Morton for 4th place in the Championship. We’ve put the outputs from the academy to good use and got us into the SP. which is pretty much the optimum position for our club (bar maybe the odd occasion) so again I don’t see what more benefit you’d be hoping for from banking money. A title challenge perhaps or a European trophy... i’ll leave You with this, what would be your end goal in prudently looking after the money and would it be a higher aspiration that being in the Scottish Premier league recording profit for soon to be the third season in a row?

I think you'll find my understanding of the business that is SMFC is perfectly fine. We are a football club and as such our primary aim is to have the best footballing product possible. Our business model is to spend what we earn in order to deliver that. Transfer fees could be delayed but it's by far and above an exception as opposed to the norm. There have been 58 fee paying transfers in Scottish football (in or out) over the last two season. Can you name one that has been delayed due to issues with the club paying? Your argument (and to question my business understanding wit this argument is the beyond laughable part) is 'we should hang off on signing players because there's a chance some of the transfer money might get delayed' Or on the off chance other income streams get delayed. Are you serious? I'd also put it to you, what do you think would happen if one of our income streams was delayed? Do you think banks just foreclose on football clubs instantly or administration happens without a long process to repay sums owed? That's not how things work, not in football clubs not in other businesses. In saying all this, there is no evidence at all that we spent money before we got it and even if we did it would take a massive amount of bad luck, delays and other events to get us even close to trouble. We also never spent every penny we had, we made a profit both years. Yet I'll pander to you some more, please indulge me in what 'financial crisis' could have hit our club? Please remember that sums of these transfers would have been paid up front before we started spending last summer and the money we got for Morgan was from a club that raked in an eight figure sum in Europe. Also please let me know what your alternative plan is that would also gain us promotion and record a profit last year? I'm sorry are you the one with the crystal ball that knew for fact the players that didn't contribute would be duds and the ones that did would be worthwhile? Another fan taking issue with a strategy that's worked. Now that is absurd.