Magic Monkey

I keep saying this, but someone needs to get the boot into Sky. They are holding all the cards, but everyone's shit scared of dealing with them, apparently. Where's the public pressure on Sky? Does Sky TV support sporting integrity or doesn't it? I know it's a business, I know it's a particularly immoral one at that, but surely it must see the damage that supporting a Newco would do? Walking away from Scottish football because it has punished an organisation for not paying taxes would send all the wrong messages about what Sky TV values in society.

I reckon they could hold on to a lot of their players and develop the squad quite nicely, because I've heard you can free up an extra 20-30% of the playing budget if you don't pay any income tax or NI on the players' earnings. Nice little financial tip for Newco, right there.

Shambles, yes, but this was clearly not a good time to be attempting to negotiate a supporter-funded club takeover, so the delay is sensible. However, you have to ask: if the CIC was going to work, surely it would have done by now?

Why do you need a proposal to do that right now? I would suggest we wait. The timing sucks, but we can't hide from the fact that the Rangers fiasco is making the takeover bid far more perilous than it should be. Right now, there's a Cold War going on between the SPL, Sky, Newco and fans of Scottish football, and St Mirren and its takeover bid are caught right in the crossfire. I would suggest it's literally impossible to progress any takeover like this, and I fully support the delay that has been suggested today. Right now, though, I'd be demanding, either directly or via the SPL, to find out what Sky's rights are in terms of pulling out of this season's coverage. There's been a lot of conjecture on this point - let's have it out. Newco or not, will they stick with the contract they've got in place? I'd imagine they would honour the deal, but maybe I'm naive. Your point about the contracts concrens me though - we are unlikely to have the deciding vote on Newco - and there is a groundwell of feeling that more clubs will vote 'no'. Are you suggesting St MIrren are f**ked either way (ie no matter who's in charge) if Sky pulls out?

This whole thing - the SPL, Newco, Sky, St Mirren, 10,000hrs... it's a f**king mess. It's a circle jerk where nobody wants to touch each other so we're all standing round with f**king stoners, treading water and waiting for something to happen. Sky: won't say anything until the SPL has voted SPL: won't vote until it knows what Sky is doing 10,000Hrs: can't progress with purchase if it votes yes to Newco, cos fans will pull out; can't progress with purchase if it votes no, because there might not be enough tv cash Sky: won't say it'll back the SPL even without Rangers, as this could be perceived as being anti-Newco/Rangers As Sid says, it's a f**king shambles. I personally think we need a progressive business model for St Mirren that can function in Division One, with no Sky money and no SPL money. We should treat anything else as a bonus. That way, we have a base line for the future and the club is secure and in the hands of the fans. The SPL can shove it all up its sorry f**king pitiful arse.

I could be clutching at straws here, but could the fact that the takeover 'hinges on Sky cash' actually be the opposite of what we think that means? Ie, with reduced Sky cash, the club is effectively worth less to the existing owners, and therefore can/should be sold for less. Maybe, with not enough cash in its pocket for the original selling price (drawn up with a TV deal in mind), the rejection of Newco is the only way that St Mirren FC is affordable to 10000hrs. If you were buying any football club, the value would be directly affected by projected income for the next two years (or whatever). Likewise, if we'd gone down last season, the value would have decreased - yet I bet near enough the same number of fans would have signed up for this scheme. Like I said, probably clutching at straws...

The trouble with forum posturing is it's very difficult to dive in and pull out some clean facts. Is there a neat precis of the latest developments and state of play anywhere? Edit: strike that, just saw Div's other thread with this link: http://www.10000hours.org

Yet he'd have gone down in Saints history if he'd just belted Scott Brown that time. I'd have loved to have seen that.

Sunny saint - you're missing some inverted commas around the word 'support' there.

Perfect summary.

Yes. How dare Danny Lennon have the temerity to guide us into a position that means the last five games of the season are effectively meaningless. Your logic doesn't stack up - if, as you say, we had failed to perform when it mattered, then we wouldn't be in this position: safe, relaxed, fighting for 7th place. It really is time to give it a rest.

That's clearly not what I was saying. Let's become an attractive team to watch with a reputation for developing youth and with the means to bring in talent/experience from elsewhere as required. Sure beats the hell out of having a dull team and watching our young players being sold on for buttons because they can't shine in our first team set-up.

Something I'd like to add in favour of our manager. Head on over to the Rumour Mill and you'll see people talking about transfer fees of around £750k for one of our young players. Head to the transfer thread on P&B, and these suggestions are not being laughed out the door by opposing fans. This is not just down to Kenny McLean's performances - it's because St Mirren are set up to play in a way that allows young talent to come through; gives them time on the ball and promotes passing play. When a Wolves (or whoever) scout comes to watch, Kenny Mclean is presented as part of a far more attractive package that genuinely adds hundreds of thousands to his perceived value. A talented, ball-playing midifleder in a team that grinds out results and pumps it forwards all the time would never attract anywhere near as much interest or money. This could be the start of a factory line of talented young players that, if we keep playing like this, could continue to get snapped up for properly large fees. Thanks to DL and TC, we could be well and truly in the money.

Pasted below in case you can't be arsed registering. I haven't registered either, but if you press crtl-A then ctrl-C really quickly, you can copy the text before it disappears Lennon shoots down McDonald signing rumours Bert Mitchell St Mirren manager Danny Lennon has distanced himself from reports linking the club with former Hamilton midfielder Gary McDonald. The 29-year-old parted company with Accies after their relegation to the First Division last season and reports had circulated suggesting that the one-time Aberdeen midfielder was on Lennon’s radar. The Buddies are understood to be in the market for a left-sided defender, an attacking midfielder and one more striker to add to the arrivals of Stevie Thompson and Nigel Hasselbaink up top. But the Saints boss said: “Obviously Gary is an established midfielder in the SPL but I feel we are well covered in that area. We have let a few players go but when I bring in new players they have to be an improvement on what we already have at St Mirren Park. “So we have to be careful in that regard but if you look at our central areas then we have Jim Goodwin, Hugh Murray, Stevie Thomson and Kenny McLean in there so we have quite a bit of competition and experience to draw upon. “As I said our sights are set on targets elsewhere.” St Mirren general manager Brian Caldwell has confirmed there have been no offers for any Saints players as r*ngers poured cold water on reports claiming they had expressed an interest in Darren McGregor. The former Cowdenbeath stopper, who is under contract for another season and currently mulling over a one-year extension, was understood to have impressed Ibrox gaffer Ally McCoist last term after a hugely impressive debut campaign for Saints in the SPL. With Gers desperate for central defensive cover with the futures of David Weir and Madjid Bougherra uncertain, speculation linking Mac with a move to the SPL champions had resurfaced. Caldwell insists the focus is bringing in players to augment what they have – not letting any go. He said: “We have not had contact from any club with regards to any of our players. “Danny has been working hard over the last few weeks to try to build a squad that will improve on the performances of last season. Our focus remains on strengthening the squad over the summer.”

Someone's been watching Brokeback Mountain.

Genuine forum request: I think we should set up a sticky, separate topic for actual club buy-out news. News on there, discussion on here. That way, I could ignore this stream of repetitive, cyclical bullshit from uninformed gobshites and just monitor a real thread for when updates happen. Mods?

What doesn't?

£72k a year if they all cough up. I included my personal questions in the registration about about support/facilities in the plan for far-flung Saints.

Speaking from my own POV, I'd be interested to know what value this would have for far-flung or exiled Buds (beyond good karma and a healthy glow of satisfaction). I think I'd be happy to do my bit with a tenner a month if it means helping the club I love, particularly as I can't attend games - but not really sure what I could offer to a community club when I'm not part of the community in any real/geographical sense. I think what I'm saying is, I don't mind paying the tenner but I'd still want some sort of involvement or inclusion. How would we be kept informed of issues as they arise? If you're voting on issues, would you get a postal/emailed vote?

Nothing, but nothing, gets people's backs up like the idea that they might lose a couple grand off the value of their house. I've worked in and with the local press for years and the only time people protest about anything, you can guarantee house value is the root cause. Doesn't matter what they dress it up as - concerns about the environment (new building developments), noise (airports), health (phone masts), traffic problems... There's nowt worse than NIMBY, but they make good copy so journo's will only be too happy to fuel their fires. I know I always was - I dined out on mobile phone mast stories for about three years. It'll come to nothing in the end because the council has given Saints permission to build exactly what we've built - it's impossible to take that permission away. Just let them bump their gums until they find something else to whinge about. Can I suggest we set up a welfare and cottaging centre for gay convict immigrant heroine users round the corner? They'll soon forget about Saints.

Where are you, Tom? I'm sat centre-left with my hands behind my head... The guy sat to my left was the one getting told off by the fecking ridiculous stewards for putting his feet on the seat. It was insane.

It was indeed Howard. Kids: this is what alcohol does to you.

Mehmet's goal was a cracker, curling into the top corner after a few minutes. The first half was a non-event after that and Darlingotn were complete gash. As mentioned above, our defence (no Shimmin) completely controlled everything they could throw at us. Smith looked comfortable throughout and came out well to claim everything he possibly could have done. Second half they showed a bit more purpose (they've got a couple of nippy wee players, one on the left and one on the right, who I'd take at LS any day) but still didn't stretch our defence at all - they had a couple of chances but comfortable for Smith every time. We passed it around very nicely without any real cutting edge up front, though I though Mehmet and Hamilton played well, so it's hard to see what the problem is. Our delivery wasn't great and we really lack pace - a couple of times Wyness, whose touch and passing was great, was simply out-run by the last man when a faster player would have been through on goal. Our passing and possession was frustrating Darlo, and they started lunging into daft tackles. Their big centre half would have been red carded in any other game for a head butt, but the ref just forced a substitution instead. They were dirty bastards, though, and we were genuinely lucky in the end only two players were injured. I personally didn't rate El Trialist much - couldn't really see what he brought to the side at all. Overall very positive, I thought, apart from the lack of chances created, but I guess that's just same old Saints. Up until the last third (the last quarter, even) we look very tidy, neat and composed.

Do I win a prize?! If it helps, I saw Wall E last night and it's great - kids'll love it.

Oh dear. The shopping is crap, I've been told, and I'm not sure there's much else there. Helen used to work there so I'll ask her. Though, there is an Odeon cinema not far from the ground (see map link below) - maybe you could pack them off to see Wall-E? http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&um...=1&ct=image