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Important Update From 10000Hours

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Guest somner9

Can we come out from behind the sofa now? Is it gone mammy?

Surely the least surprising "Update" (Or should we say "No Date") that 10000 hours have come up with albeit three months late.

Maybe a lesson for REA et all if they want to learn it that being: if you try to run you proposal completely in reverse to the requirements of the processes in place by all the stakeholders you wish to involve then don't be surprised if you crash and burn. Which has happened in a needlessly drawn out way.

The selling consortium I hope will have learned their lesson and instead of eyes glazing over with dollar signs, will do proper due dilligence to ensure any other bid actually has or can access the necessarry funds to complete the deal within a reasonable timescale (Less than 2 years).

Yes by all means have your meeting on the 30th 10000 hours, (don't over order on pies though) lord knows you like a good meeting, just leave it all tidy and hit the lights on the way out. Cheery Bye the noo

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Interesting article from supermac in the Herald about the CIC today;

PLANS for a ground-breaking community-led takeover of St Mirren have fallen through.

The ambitious social enterprise project would have seen a Community Interest Company (CIC) purchase the 52% shareholding put up for sale by a group of directors two years ago but, despite the takeover at one point being said to have been “99% of the way there”, the group behind it have been forced to admit defeat after months of wrangling with red tape.

The CIC, 10,000 Hours, had been created to source funding to provide the £2m required to buy out the selling consortium, with monthly contributions by supporters, as well as local businesses and organisations, then used to pay back the loans.

It is thought a problem emerged late on in getting a sign-off for the final funding source and, without that money, the CIC did not have sufficient sums to meet the seller’s current asking price.

With their original takeover proposals no longer viable, 10,000 Hours now plan to investigate alternative funding proposals – possibly along the lines of an industrial and provident society – with a view to still delivering the club into the hands of the supporters in the future.

“We still believe that the club owned and controlled by the fans, and integrated into the community, provides the best way to grow the club and secure its future for the coming generations,” Richard Atkinson, spokesman for 10,000 Hours, said last night. “Over 800 individuals, plus community and corporate organisations, indicated their support for a fan-controlled Community Interest Company to take ownership of the majority shareholding and, while it is immensely disappointing to have got so close to completing the purchase, the opportunity still exists.”

10,000 Hours, however, could face competition from at least one other would-be buyer. Ken McGeoch, a long-standing director not included in the selling consortium, is fronting another takeover bid, while it is thought a third as-yet unnamed party has also made enquiries.

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Guest somner9

Shocking omission from 10000 hours statement regarding what is happening to 800 direct debit forms they hold??? Given the pledgers in good faith signed up and pledged to the original proposal of a CiC, and that has now failed! Shouldn't they be contacted to advise them that the terms and conditions they signed up to are now null and void???

Or are 10000 hours hoping that "Tacit Approval" i.e. not being explicit with the 800 pledgers will perhaps result in them being able to assume the pledgers back any new scheme because they haven't voiced an opinion?

Do it the right way 10000 hours!!! contact the pledgers and advise them the original scheme has ended, don't be tempted to use those Direct debits for anything other than what the pledgers bought into originally.

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Richard certainly didn't look like a defeated man on Saturday, if nothing else he's certainly taken the SMISA idea and given it a good shake. A lot of things about the CIC are good and exactly what fans on here have been shouting about, but it didn't offer immediate waves of investment...I can't imagine any other offer will give a real wave either. The stadium was safe, the empty space was going to become used, people with a business mindset would have gotten involved, supporters could have gotten as involved as they want, nobody was going to take a wage out of the club to get their cash back and the club could have pushed on a wee bit. As we sit, that would have been pushing on from 5th and with other clubs around us floundering.

If there's a golden egg of an offer out there, then great, but if I'd be warey if it wasn't a Middle Eastern with more money than sense. As this isn't Football Manager 2012 and there's no way to use FMRTE my only other real option just now is to go to the meeting on the 30th and see what's said.

In closing, I've said this before, if a small club from Kent can attract around 4,000 members interested purely in the club then so can Saint Mirren...it just maybe needs questions other than "eh, where's the investment".

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Shocking omission from 10000 hours statement regarding what is happening to 800 direct debit forms they hold??? Given the pledgers in good faith signed up and pledged to the original proposal of a CiC, and that has now failed! Shouldn't they be contacted to advise them that the terms and conditions they signed up to are now null and void???

Or are 10000 hours hoping that "Tacit Approval" i.e. not being explicit with the 800 pledgers will perhaps result in them being able to assume the pledgers back any new scheme because they haven't voiced an opinion?

Do it the right way 10000 hours!!! contact the pledgers and advise them the original scheme has ended, don't be tempted to use those Direct debits for anything other than what the pledgers bought into originally.

Tell you what...I'll ask that for you on the 30th.

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Guest somner9

Tell you what...I'll ask that for you on the 30th.

Cheers Bud! but hopefully you see the point, for 10000 hours to just go ahead with whatever they decide on the back of half a dozen raised hands on the 30th isn't operating in a responsible manner. if they want respect then they should give it and contact all the pledgers and let them know that the proposal is dead. Then talk about any new scheme to anyone that might be interested

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Tell you what...I'll ask that for you on the 30th.

Instead of pointing and laughing from behind a keyboard, anyone who thought the CIC was a crock of shite (and that's their perogative!) should use any new meeting to ask questions themselves, if they can make it. As has been pointed out many times on the various threads, during the course of the meetings already taken place, where were the dissenters voices at these meetings? Michelle Evans aside. Where was everyone?

I don't know who 'Yul' is, but I'm awaiting his latest 50 paragraph post any day now. Perhaps he'll wait until the next meeting is over before posting? He could sit at the back, say fcuk-all, then go home and put the kettle on, crack his knuckles, take a slurp pf tea and start banging the keys. Save yourself - we know what your post will be in advance. Speak up at the meeting instead and let those on the stage and on the floor hear what you have to say.

Edited by pozbaird

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Cheers Bud! but hopefully you see the point, for 10000 hours to just go ahead with whatever they decide on the back of half a dozen raised hands on the 30th isn't operating in a responsible manner. if they want respect then they should give it and contact all the pledgers and let them know that the proposal is dead. Then talk about any new scheme to anyone that might be interested

I suppose that depends on how dead it is really. Richard spoke as if any new proposal, well reworked really, would be under the same banner. If it's an entirely different model with no CIC aspect to it then I'd imagine a lot of people will be pushing for Richard and others to contact those who have sent their forms in. One of these times when it's best to hang fire, it'd be different if we all suddenly noticed a £10 payment going out.

All I'd say now to anyone is don't miss the meeting just because you want a white knight (even if only one promising a million in investment) as you could easily be at a meeting down the road to discuss what happens when we go in to administration.

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Guest somner9

Instead of pointing and laughing from behind a keyboard, anyone who thought the CIC was a crock of shite (and that's their perogative!) should use any new meeting to ask questions themselves, if they can make it. As has been pointed out many times on the various threads, during the course of the meetings already taken place, where were the dissenters voices at these meetings? Michelle Evans aside. Where was everyone?

I don't know who 'Yul' is, but I'm awaiting his latest 50 paragraph post any day now. Perhaps he'll wait until the next meeting is over before posting? He could sit at the back, say fcuk-all, then put the kettle on, crack his knuckles, and start banging the keys. Save yourself - we know what your post will be in advance. Speak up at the meeting instead and let those on the stage and on the floor hear what you have to say.

Why attend a meeting to recruit you to a failed scheme if you never wanted to join it in the first place??? Isn't the meeting for people that are interested? If I was interested in a proposal, went to a meeting that had loads of people speaking out against the proposal I ask them why they bothered turning up if they didn't want it?

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If they want respect then they should give it and contact all the pledgers and let them know that the proposal is dead. Then talk about any new scheme to anyone that might be interested

You mean exactly like they did last night ?

Every single pledger was emailed at the same time as the release was put on the website.Just under 900 of them.

I guess you wouldn't have known that because, well, you weren't a pledger were you ?

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Why attend a meeting to recruit you to a failed scheme if you never wanted to join it in the first place??? Isn't the meeting for people that are interested? If I was interested in a proposal, went to a meeting that had loads of people speaking out against the proposal I ask them why they bothered turning up if they didn't want it?

The people opposed to the scheme were offered a platform to debate their concerns in front of the supporters who were pledging to make it happen. They had the opportunity to effectively scupper the scheme they were so against by educating everyone as to why they should do that.

They didn't take the opportunity. I have no idea why.

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Guest somner9

I suppose that depends on how dead it is really. Richard spoke as if any new proposal, well reworked really, would be under the same banner. If it's an entirely different model with no CIC aspect to it then I'd imagine a lot of people will be pushing for Richard and others to contact those who have sent their forms in. One of these times when it's best to hang fire, it'd be different if we all suddenly noticed a £10 payment going out.

All I'd say now to anyone is don't miss the meeting just because you want a white knight (even if only one promising a million in investment) as you could easily be at a meeting down the road to discuss what happens when we go in to administration.

Same as my response to Pozbaird up to a point! that being this is a 10000 hours meeting, not a SMFC meeting and as such it won't be a full and frank discussion about ALL possible avenues the club could go down, as obviously it isn't about that.

The point suggesting you have to attend as "Administration" could be an outcome is needless scaremongering, and would turn off any right-minded curious person. It's 10000 hours trying to save face and get another of their schemes off the ground. It is what it is.

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Why attend a meeting to recruit you to a failed scheme if you never wanted to join it in the first place??? Isn't the meeting for people that are interested? If I was interested in a proposal, went to a meeting that had loads of people speaking out against the proposal I ask them why they bothered turning up if they didn't want it?

The meetings were for anyone - you know this, you've posted as much as me on the subject, so you must know the meetings were put on as open question and answer sessions, bar the last one, which was to update pledgers as at that time, that stage had been reached. Mind you, at that final meeting there wasn't anyone in a fluorescent stewards jacket checking your DD form before letting you in.

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Guest somner9

You mean exactly like they did last night ?

Every single pledger was emailed at the same time as the release was put on the website.Just under 900 of them.

I guess you wouldn't have known that because, well, you weren't a pledger were you ?

And what information was forthcoming given that 10000 hours still holds their bank details but is unable to proceed with the proposal they set out?

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Guest somner9

The meetings were for anyone - you know this, you've posted as much as me on the subject, so you must know the meetings were put on as open question and answer sessions, bar the last one, which was to update pledgers as at that time, that stage had been reached. Mind you, at that final meeting there wasn't anyone in a fluorescent stewards jacket checking your DD form before letting you in.

I'm certainly not having a go at you, or suggesting anyone could have gone along if they wanted. but come on, would you have sat through a bundle of people saying "this is shite" "away an lie in yer ayrshire p..." etc??? Course not. If you were curious, wavering, undecided, right up for it then you might go? But if you saw it as a complete non-starter then why would you?

Q & A sessions yes, but you would have to have an interest in 10000 hours proposal to ask a Q in the first place.

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I've given my bank details via direct debit instructions to dozens of organisations in the past who I no longer use, I am sure the same is true for you.

I don't recall any of them every writing to me to tell me where they were storing my form or what they had done with it when I was finished with their services ?

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Q & A sessions yes, but you would have to have an interest in 10000 hours proposal to ask a Q in the first place.

If you don't have an interest in who owns the football club then why are you getting involved in this debate online ? unsure.png

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Guest somner9

The people opposed to the scheme were offered a platform to debate their concerns in front of the supporters who were pledging to make it happen. They had the opportunity to effectively scupper the scheme they were so against by educating everyone as to why they should do that.

They didn't take the opportunity. I have no idea why.

Are you saying 10000 hours meetings were a platform to scupper the scheme? They certainly didn't put that in their proposal document! come on the meetings were for interested parties, not dis-interested ones!

And bear in mind they were 10000 hours meetings, not meetings on any possible future plan for SMFC, if they were then I would suggest the Kibble bloke might not have dissed the BoD. But only my opinion

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Guest somner9

If you don't have an interest in who owns the football club then why are you getting involved in this debate online ? unsure.png

Interested in SMFC not 10000 hours! seems I backed the right cuddy!

Read the only written info 10000 hours made available, and decided it didn't stack up, too many holes, too many wishes, no detail. As i'm sure you know in business you live and die by how you communicate to customers and potential investors alike.

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Guest somner9

I've given my bank details via direct debit instructions to dozens of organisations in the past who I no longer use, I am sure the same is true for you.

I don't recall any of them every writing to me to tell me where they were storing my form or what they had done with it when I was finished with their services ?

Agreed, however if my subscription to "Big & Bouncy" suddenly morphs into a fortnightly mag building up to a full novel like "Fly Fishing by JR Hartley" then i'd be wanting to know why I wasn't optioned on my continuing subscription

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Interested in SMFC not 10000 hours! seems I backed the right cuddy!

Read the only written info 10000 hours made available, and decided it didn't stack up, too many holes, too many wishes, no detail. As i'm sure you know in business you live and die by how you communicate to customers and potential investors alike.

Goes without saying that you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, which you have made crystal clear in several areas. You are interested in SMFC, not 10000hours and their CIC plan. You think that the meetings they put on were not for dissenting voices, you think the upcoming meeting is to do with 10000hours / the CIC, and not SMFC, and having read the launch document, you wanted nothing to do with it.

I take it then, that following the next meeting (which you have no interest in whatsoever), once what was actually said at that meeting is being debated on here - you won't be taking part in the online debate? Surely we shouldn't be seeing any posts from you about anything that took place that night.... it's all about Dicky and his failed CIC, right?

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Guest somner9

Goes without saying that you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, which you have made crystal clear in several areas. You are interested in SMFC, not 10000hours and their CIC plan. You think that the meetings they put on were not for dissenting voices, you think the upcoming meeting is to do with 10000hours / the CIC, and not SMFC, and having read the launch document, you wanted nothing to do with it.

I take it then, that following the next meeting (which you have no interest in whatsoever), once what was actually said at that meeting is being debated on here - you won't be taking part in the online debate? Surely we shouldn't be seeing any posts from you about anything that took place that night.... it's all about Dicky and his failed CIC, right?

Following that thinking at countless games over the years when most, maybe all of us have said at some point: "thats it, thats me, never again" only to cut a pathetic sight a week or so later scuttling down love street, heart in mouth, hoping not to have missed anything as you hear a roar, whilst fumbling your money through the turnstile..... Then should we always through the buddy out with the bath water?

As I understand it this is an open forum for SMFC supporters to discuss, debate, take the mickey etc etc about all things SMFC and quite a few not?

If it still is an open forum then yes I'll participate in an open way! but I won't be rail roaded into accepting that SMFC is in dire straits when the selling consortium tell me it is not! and i'll also not be rail roaded into accepting that 10000 hours offer the only possibe escape from this desperate plight we are NOT in!

I'll leave the "Dicky" references to someone else clap.gif

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Are you saying 10000 hours meetings were a platform to scupper the scheme? They certainly didn't put that in their proposal document! come on the meetings were for interested parties, not dis-interested ones!

And bear in mind they were 10000 hours meetings, not meetings on any possible future plan for SMFC, if they were then I would suggest the Kibble bloke might not have dissed the BoD. But only my opinion

I would attend any meetings organised by anyone who was interested in gaining control of St.Mirren FC. I would want to ask questions about them and find out what their plans were for the club.

Just like the shareholders did at the EGM when Brealey stood up and pitched to buy the club.

Brealey had promised us all massive investment, European football, a return to the glory days. It was a convincing pitch and there was growing excitement in the room about this multi-millionnaire who wanted to invest in our club.

It was Stewart Gilmour and co at the back of the room that started asking questions about Brealey, questions that eventually led to the documentary that showed it was all a scam.

If they had not voiced their concerns and done their homework then we probably wouldn't even have a club to sell today.

If you care about SMFC then you care about who owns the club. If you thought the 10000Hours proposal was "full of holes" you should have went along to the public meeting and pointed those holes out by asking the questions of the people running the show.

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Following that thinking at countless games over the years when most, maybe all of us have said at some point: "thats it, thats me, never again" only to cut a pathetic sight a week or so later scuttling down love street, heart in mouth, hoping not to have missed anything as you hear a roar, whilst fumbling your money through the turnstile..... Then should we always through the buddy out with the bath water?

As I understand it this is an open forum for SMFC supporters to discuss, debate, take the mickey etc etc about all things SMFC and quite a few not?

If it still is an open forum then yes I'll participate in an open way! but I won't be rail roaded into accepting that SMFC is in dire straits when the selling consortium tell me it is not! and i'll also not be rail roaded into accepting that 10000 hours offer the only possibe escape from this desperate plight we are NOT in!

I'll leave the "Dicky" references to someone else clap.gif

I don't think anyone has said that the club is in dire straits ? You would need to show me that ?

The controlling interest in the club IS up for sale though and it WILL be sold eventually, unless the selling consortium break rank.

Who it is sold to should be of concern to EVERY St.Mirren supporter.

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Following that thinking at countless games over the years when most, maybe all of us have said at some point: "thats it, thats me, never again" only to cut a pathetic sight a week or so later scuttling down love street, heart in mouth, hoping not to have missed anything as you hear a roar, whilst fumbling your money through the turnstile..... Then should we always through the buddy out with the bath water?

As I understand it this is an open forum for SMFC supporters to discuss, debate, take the mickey etc etc about all things SMFC and quite a few not?

If it still is an open forum then yes I'll participate in an open way! but I won't be rail roaded into accepting that SMFC is in dire straits when the selling consortium tell me it is not! and i'll also not be rail roaded into accepting that 10000 hours offer the only possibe escape from this desperate plight we are NOT in!

I'll leave the "Dicky" references to someone else clap.gif

Fair enough. Maybe it's me, but while I enjoy taking part in all sorts of weird and wonderful discussions on what you rightly point out is an open forum - when it comes to discussing the future of our club, I take it a bit more seriously than admitting I don't really give a fcuk about it, but will continue to stick my tuppenceworth in anyway as it's all just a bit of fun. More fool me. I need to become far more of a piss-taking wind-up merchant obviously. Lighten up Poz FFS!

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