BLF

Who is Martin? I thought it was Paul davis?

sorry chico - i hope you realise that wasnt my intention in the Opening post.

With the latest deadline being missed and the lack of information from 10000hours HQ, it seems very much to me like the sounding of the death knell for the CIC takeover plan. The funding bodies don’t seem to be convinced enough to back the plan and ultimately it needs their buy in to go ahead. The question is, where do we go from here? There was/is a lot of positivity built up around the concept of the CIC – getting the fans to use their skills to help the club improve its off field activities and in particular deliver on things the fan base wants to see (new strips, legends banners etc). It would be a shame to lose that enthusiasm and newly realised resource. Is there any way to maintain the principle of the CIC/community club/co-operative society, without it being a complete take over. Perhaps by tagging a fans group onto Ken McGeoch’s ‘note of interest’? The club will be sold eventually – the CIC had a lot going for it, but ultimately seems to have been unworkable – lets hope when the takeover happens it can carry some of the good parts of the CIC with it. [NB: I have no ‘inside knowledge’, it may be that the CIC is about to announce the completion of the takeover any time now, in which case, I will duly eat humble pie!]

well, it is a note of interest from someone well aware of the asking price, so there are other parties interested - I'm not saying they are a better or even realistic option but i dont buy the "only show in town" line as a reason to support the CiC. As I said before, if there is so much red tape and bureaucracy involved, is this going to work well as a mechanism for running the club...?

I was under the impression Ken McGeoch was offering £2m? The protracted takeover by the CIC is really a worry for me in terms of how it would operate once in control - if there is so much red tape and bureaucracy involved, is this going to work well as a mechanism for running the club...?

There is a concern that commercial revenue that was previously spent direct with the club may now be spent with the CIC - in some ways this is an inevitability - but SMFC just have to be aware of it and ensure the amount being ‘lost’ is not too significant. I have been told this has already happened on some level but I don’t know any other detail. I am interested in how profits from events organised by the CIC will be distributed. Will profits from the bar be fed into the CIC or the club? will the CIC pay any sort of rent for the bar area? The CIC will organise events using SMFC's facilities - eg corporate events - will this be done in the same way it is now with the club getting the money direct but the CIC negotiating a discount or will all money from the booking go to the CIC? These are not leading questions by the way!

I have a number of concerns still over the CIC, and they are mainly ones that cant be addressed without seeing the thing in action. Its a long post but appreciate any feedback. 1 Bureaucracy we are going to have 3 boards, SMFC Board, CIC Board, Exec Board. I understand the requirement of each but I also can see this becoming a very difficult set up to maintain without the CIC or SMFC becoming difficult to operate effectively. On this point I also think that its important that the elected SMFC board is allowed to run the club in the way they see fit i.e. the CIC board and indeed members cant expect to be consulted on every decision if the board arent running things to your liking dont re-elect them sort of idea. 2 Exec Board I completely understand the necessity of this board and agree with it in principle, but as its unelected it wouldnt be answerable to the supporters what if the exec board make a decision or veto a deal against the wishes of the support at large. I understand the premise is to only get involved in legal dealings etc but who determines what goes to the exec board and what doesnt if they have overall governance then whats to stop them making decisions on issues that they were not originally supposed to have a say on. 3 - Fan apathy SMiSA really struggled to make an impact because there were never more that about 120 members and only really 10 who actually were actively doing things if Saints fans get bored of the CIC or if the team gets relegated Im concerned the fan involvement might drop off to the point that the model becomes unsustainable. 4 Division of support The Saints fans are a great bunch for not getting on with each other Im concerned that the CIC members/Non Members will become a big division in our support and may lead to some people feeling isolated or worse, some fans feeling superior. This is something we all probably have to be careful of and ensure that any new regime is totally inclusive. 5 Inexperience - I like Richard and I like that hes come up with a lot of new ideas for the club to make money I like that he is driven and has belief that St Mirren can grow as a club, but I fear there is an element of naivety. The numbers that were discussed in the presentations seem reasonable enough, but there has also been talk of getting Old Firm fans to get Season tickets at St Mirren instead of with the OF, because well offer them more value, or because we will be their community club. By and large fans dont change their teams, we can convince a few Im sure, but were talking 10s not 100s. Football fans arent consumers its a business yes, but it doesnt really work the same way other ones do and Im not certain Richard appreciates that yet. 6 - Exit strategy if/when this happens I will sign up so dont take this point as me willing the thing to fail if/when it happens I will really be hoping it takes off and is a huge success, because this is my club and I want it to work. That said, I think there has to be a clearly defined exit strategy At what point is the scheme determined a failure? Would those involved, both Richard and his team, and the fans who have bought in be willing/brave enough to admit if it hadnt been successful and was time to call it a day? In such a scenario the club is put up for sale as the only asset of TTH to pay its debts, fair enough, but who decides on the suitability of potential buyers? Also on this Richard mentioned that he and Chris held the 100 or so shares in TTH is there a potential that the power would be taken out of the fans hands in this situation? If/when this happens I will be 100% on board but we are all going to have to work hard to ensure the above points dont turn this project into a disaster.

why dont you tell us what you know?

I have very serious concerns and reservations about the CIC - although I don’t feel the way Yul etc present their concerns is constructive or helpful - in fact I'm not sure they are anything other than wind up merchants without any real opinions on the subject at all.

Of course - I've always maintained that I was keen for fan involvement at the top level of the club, but ultimately the guy in charge should really be a buisnessman, what i meant earlier was it would be nice if we could have a Saints supporting business man (GLS/SG for example). I would vote for RA to be on the board at any rate - he has tried to do things differently and hopefully is generating a bit more cash along the way. I wonder if RA would take extended leave from Maxi group if he were to become Chairman - as i've mentioned before I believe our chairman should be a full time position.

Just to pull the discussion back on topic - What conditions would people consider acceptable/reasonable for SMISA to put on thier investment/gifting of this £50k.

Thats probably a fair point David - I like a lot of the things he seems to be trying so would certainly seem to be a good candiate for the board but equally I would be happier with a Saints fan as Chairman.

Richard said in one of the public meetings that there was a certain inevitability of him becoming chairman at the point at which the CIC takes control. Would you vote for him in the first election?

is there any chance of us bringing in another centre half before the window shuts? I think we are really just 1 decent centre half away from a great season.

I dont think the conditions being set by SMiSA will be anything like as grand as demanding a seat on the board or anything like that. I believe the conditions are more likely to be the point at which the money is released, is it released in increments in line with the CiC proceeding as planned or is it released up front. I wonder whether it would be worth SMISA putting the condition that they get a representative on the exec board (as a way of ensuring this board always has a saints fans' voice on it?) but there is absolutely no question in my mind of SMISA requesting a seat on either the CIC board or the St Mirren Board, equally if that was to be requested, i am certain it would be rejected. In any case, the conditions will be set by smisa and agreed by the CIC - so that everyone is happy - Smisa want to invest this cash in the CIC, but are rightly cautious about their investment.

I dont think the club would benefit in this way as the club remains a public company - the CiC is a separate business.

Give the guy a break - he's not said we're going to sign him. He's a really talented striker - strong, quick and good finisher - suspect he'll be off down south this summer.

Havent completed it yet - plan to do it shortly!

or give the saints support, that should be the cheese and whine event.

Cheese and wine event? THE FUCKING CATALINA WINE MIXER!!!

Risky - might have to pay funeral costs.....

I think you've misunderstood how it would work. Effectively it would be an opt in (similar to gift aid) so the ST price remains at the level the club set it at and all of that money goes to the club. However the STH would have the opportunity to tick a box at this point, pay an extra £15/£20 and become a member of the CIC.

Absolutely - I mentioned this in the Q/A thread - as the BoD of both the CIC and the Club will be un-payed roles, it will be very difficult for anyone in full time employment to really commit to a role on either - this isnt different from the status quo, but it does present a problem in relation to 'fans in charge' ideology. I'm not saying this is a brick wall but it is something that needs considered a bit more IMO.

Lets not forget GLS could very easily be the representative from the 48% or indeed could become a member of the CIC and become an SMFC board member that way. I believe if he joins the CIC he will be encouraged by the saints fans to stand and I think (hope) he could yet be our chairman.

Who (specifically) will make up the exec-board and will the main CIC board/members have any ability to remove/replace this board if they do not like the way it is operating?