Big Fras

I agree. The club is operating as before, and in regards to CIC ownership, not much extra finance would appear in the first year or two. Everything seems quite stable, so what's the rush ? If I was one of the selling 5, I'd want it sorted ASAP, as it's the only bid that meets/comes close to their valuation. £1.8m for 52% of a company that barely breaks even is a tad steep if you ask me, but if they can get this, then good luck to them. There is a myth that it is the "only bid in town". It has been reported that there are other interested parties, but none that come remotely close to the valuation of the majority shareholders. Therefore, if you are on the BoD, why rush ? The current delays seem to be down to dealing with other parties who have a reputation of having the operational turning circle of a supertanker, as opposed to them saying "No". Therefore, there seems little else but to wait a wee bit longer. No big shocks there.

Macca earns a decent crust from after-dinner speaking these days. However, I can assure you from personal experience that if called upon to help out the Buds, as long as the situation was explained properly, he would be very well disposed towards doing us a favour. Don't be fooled by the tabloid image. He's a lot wiser these days, and a very nice chap indeed, and although c*ltic are his first love, he holds St.Mirren FC a lot dearer to his heart than is represented in the press.

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Of course they are fictional. Read the post properly. Just trying to look at "what happens next" should the CIC bid fail......which I also stated I don't think will happen.

I don't agree with all that Yul says, but you gotta hand it to the ol' gunslinger, he does have an entertaining style. That and Stuart Dickson's well-contructed posts have been a welcome addition to the debates. Although at comlpete opposite ends of the viewpoint on the CIC bid, Yul & SD have been subject to some fairly aggresive treatment on the forum (and at GHR in SD's case going by one of his recent posts - MeatPieGate), yet have as yet not resorted to answering their critics in matching style. Good for the Forum, although Div's "outing" of the "Animal"/"Yul" matching IP address was a wee bit questionable in retrospect. I've seen a lot worse posts by aliases over the years go unpunished - although that may have been pre-Amnesty when Robert Mugabe and many others came in from the cold. I'm just left wondering about the thinking behind someone whose aliases are muppets & cowboys. West Ham United would be a more suitable arena.

Pretty much agree with the above Div......but the info came from a very good source (ie. non-SMFC, ex-employer of mine who knows the BoD member). To be honest, it just sounds like a bit of frustration. Imagine waiting ages to sell your house for a decent fee, then the buyer asks for another time extension. You'd probably get a wee bit p*ssed off & frustrated, which is fair enough. Don't think there is much more to this to add. Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment.......say the CIC bid failed (I don't think it will - but what do I know ?), then 2-3 months later another (revised ?) bid came in from a group of businessmen for say £1.2m (50% more than Gordon Smith's lot by all accounts). Would the BoD have no option but to accept, or would they carry on ? I just have a sneaking feeling that someone is watching developments at the club with interest, and if the CIC bid fails, the BoDs resolve/desperation could be tested. I stress that this is just hypothetical, and I think there is enough critical mass behind the CIc bid for it to succeed (although that is where the fun will really begin).

Hmmm. I heard this as well. Sounds like they just want the CIC deal to actually happen ASAP, as opposed to having misgivings about its structure. (ie. running out of patience to get their dough !)

Perhaps we should take inspiration from the promotion to the Football league of AFC Wimbledon. A truly wonderful story of success against all the odds, when everyone bar the fans wanted their club to die. Have a wee gander at their site for ideas.... AFC Wimbledon

Coming through OK on googlemail.

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability. I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them. Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about. This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

I can vouch that this is correct. RA took the time to contact me and answer my queries. To be honest I don't think you can ask for much more than that as a supporter, and I'm pretty sure that Craig Whyte didn't have a team of suits answering RFC fans queries on FollowFollow. I am of the view that it is critical for the longevity of the CIC ownership that as many fans are involved as possible. If this means revised membership schemes in similar lines to what you see currently as gate concessions for for families, OAPs / unemployed etc., then so be it. The most important thing would be that the supporters had a serious financial "voice" on an ongoing basis. It would be too easy to pay lip service to 312 members as opposed to 1800. Also, having a larger number of fans on board could/would make the whole thing appeal more to future community/private investors.

Shucks Yul, Gunslinger Div appears to have 21st century weaponry down at the Coral these days. The Seven may have 6(pointer) shooters, but The Good, The Bad & The Baldy have laser guided tomahawks.

Oh for the balmy summer of 1995......

Pretty well summarised Stuart. Following a pledge of another kind (to try and keep out of Sid's way), I didn't go into much detail. Some other posters subsequently asked questions about some of the areas of concern, and they were answered well by the TTH folks on the Q&A. My only remaining grumble was about why/how the deal would be pushed through with "the backing of the fans"....yet the target represented about 10% of those who went to games these days. Hardly a working mandate, but I was satisfied by the talk and action of the TTH people that my final concerns were answered. (My thread on this issue was derided as "Pompous & self-important" by Sid....but thankfully the TTH people saw what I was trying to raise as an issue, and answered it well. 'nuff said) My main hope now is that we get as close to 1000 as possible, not at discounted structure. This would be a great achievment, but also give the members a serious voice if things were going awry. The extra funds would come in handy as well. This forum has done a good job in opening up a debate amongst Saints fans for what is a critical decision for the club, and with the exception of the fanatical CIC funa-mental-ists, and the Yul Bryner fruitcakes, the toing/froing of comments has been a healthy and informative debate. Introducing the Q&A section was excellent, especially for the FFFs who cannot attend meetings at SMP.

Thank you for the reply. This is what the Q&A is for, and it was nice to hear an informed voice giving a calm logical explanation with no sweary words Reading the above, I'll be signing up. (NB: The "incentives" idea was just to try and entice any "floating voters", as personal experience has taught me that no matter how much good intentions people have , the "what's in it for me ?" mentality does kick in once you get the first wave of people signed up. A membership of 1000+ would be really quite something, so let's aim high. Thanks for taking the time.

To the 10000 hours chap(s)... Q1.Echoing a point I madfe on another thread, can we just get some form of clarification as to why it was deemed acceptable that getting 300 fans to back the bid was seen as a mark of approval for the CIC to proceed. RA has said that the fans backing was critical, yet the target figure was only 300 as clearly stated on the TTH website. To clearly identify/target only 10% of those who attend games now (and in effect an even smaller % of the supporter base at large) as a mandate for approval of the CIC bid is highly questionable, and a contradiction to the statements about needing the backing of the fans. Q2.I have stated that I think with some good PR/marketing, the supporter involvement could top 1000, and this would be great for a number of reasons. There is a growing/grumbling (don't just listen to forums !) view that the changes are being "forced through" with the backing of the minority of fans, as the majority don't know enough about it. To get 1000+ fans on board, before actioning the bid, would demonstrate that a sizeable chunk of the supporter base are firmly/financially behind the plan. At the moment it comes across as that some sizeable business, plus local community groups are driving the bid, backed by a small % of the St.Mirren support, and that just doesn't seem right. Can you please clarify what plans are in place to get as many Buddies aware of the CIC bid in the immediate future. Suggestions that I know from my own commercial experience do not cost thousands, and can be actioned very quickly: Leafleting at turnstiles for next home games Programme inserts Mailshots to the databases of ST holders, those who have bought tickets, those who have bought mail order merchandise; B&W Mag database

I am writing this on the assumption that the CIC bid will succeed. In one of the other threads, Div has touched on what is THE critical area for this whole CIC business, and its validity whether you are for/against expanding the numbers of supporter involvement. Why ? *RA has said that the whole thing depends upon the backing of the fans. Fine. *What we have is a target of 300 10% of the regular support. For one in ten regular fans to be all that is required to rubber stamp supporter backing is a ridiculously low level the sort of mandate that even Nick Clegg may wince at. *If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then the financial benefits to the club are obvious. *If we have 1,000+ fans signed up, then this represents a serious voice ie. the first sign of any buggering about / unfulfilled promises / etc. then 700-800+ cancel their direct debits within a 1-2 month period. I think youll find that gets results, and the Executive Board will really pay heed to supporter involvement, beyond the lower tier board position(s) that are available. Beyond the above what are the benefits ? Given that this project has been on the go now for 12 months, the incentives for the individual membership are very disappointing thus far, and dont appear to have had much thought put in. This is at best surprising. All I know so far is that: *Well get access to a bar. Mowell did this a while back, and within a short period of time, it (Davie Cooper Bar ?)was open to non-members due to a series of complaints and general bad PR within the club. Id wager similar will happen at SMP. Also, not exactly a pulse-quickener for exiled Buds who must represent a decent target market for the individual memberships (ie. get a chance to get involved from a distance) *Fitzy says we can help choose the strips. *Other benefits will be voted for by the fans (once the bid is through). Surely something as simple as % discount on merchandise would have been easy enough to offer right here & now ? Im sure the business partners will see good benefits for fans using theior services, but that is AFTER the event. Lets try and offer some bunce to bring in as many Individual Members as possible. Im probably missing something, but if the above is all that is on offer as incentives, it doesnt really tally with the stated intentions of supporter backing being the key. We dont appear to be trying too hard to win over as wide an audience as possible. If a non-online campaign is cranked up to recruit as many as possible, then this is highly commendable: *We have enough good contacts in the press to make this happen *I am not the only one to be left scratching my head at why the bar was set so low (10%) for supporter backing, and it doesnt really help the festering bad vibes that many have about the project. *Divs feedback about non-net users wondering what the hell is going on is a concern, and clearly the CIC bid is not yet being communicated as well as could possibly be the case. Having done an Aber on Bannatyne, I may well be IN again.....if I see a decent campaign to recruit as many people as possible. Having 1000 fans signed up is achievable, and does represent a decent mandate for saying the supporters back the CIC bid. It also provides the fans with a loud enough threat to keep the whole thing on the straight & narrow. Div you made a great post. Now do the hard bit and go and get them to make it happen in real life.

Out on the bike today and was impressed by the efforts being put in to attract private sector members as far off as Lancashire........

Maybe it was "bizarre" in the sense that it was after back-to-back MOTD and the Football league Show, plus a couple of nippy sweeties. I wan't at my sharpest. If I was to write it now, I would include much more detail. Count yourselves lucky. Nonetheless, (and taking Poz's post as not being patronising), I have been listening/reading to viewpoints from all corners on this one - its the only sensible option. Bearing in mind that we are talking about a takeover of a football club, then I would have thought it a bit remiss to run all the pros and cons put forward thus far, past a completely neutral individual, who happens to be a sports daft, succesful invesment banker. Takeovers etc.....that what the guy is successful at, whether we like that type of occupation or not. I've seen Sid's posts, plus Div, Poz & crew; I've seen Animal's points of view; I've read Yul Bryner's tales from the secure unit; I spoke to a journo I know; and most importantly I've gone through the 10,000 Hours docs, plus Div's coverage of the meeting. Put all of this together, and run it past a guy with more expertise in this field than virtaully anyone posting on here, and absolutely no emotional connection (good/bad) to SMFC ? Seems like a good idea to me. Due to the nature of the criticism any "dissenters" get on here (and your post above is just a wee example), where there seems to be a lacking in any structured debate - something that is being picked up by a growing number of people - I have no inclination to go into my reasons why I have changed my position, but.... in a Bannatyne-stylee (as opposed to a Justin Fashanu stylee).....I'm out. Its a personal decision, and not one that will affect the buy-out going through in all likelihood. Just hope it all works out well in the end.