Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Perhaps I'm missing your point, here. • Use your 1877 shares to vote at the club AGM and any other shareholder meetings.' For the purpose of the CIC (ie - membership), this still only constitutes one vote. Errr the £10 a month members only vote within the cic structure, not the club! The 1877 members vote within both, and can be elected onto the SMFC board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 But it is now ready for the race. GLS, I have read the document and it is basically an appeal for cash rather that providing the detail that people are looking for in relation to how the CIC / SMFC will function. My finger is very hovering over the pause button until we get absolute clarity on what it is we are actually comminting the future of the club to. It is time to get out of sales pitch mode, which gets you as far as "okay, we like the idea and we're interested", to getting people to take the responsibility for a decision, which is massive for the long term future of the club. People are investing a lot of money into this. Might not be £25,000 or even £3,000 in a lump sum. However, it is significant to the individual - they are doing it because they care enough about the club to make a personal sacrifice...and I am quietly confident that their sacrifice of their disposable income will be greater than that of any business commiting £25,000 for something they will see an ROI on. We have seen the outrage from supporters based on the upcoming decision regarding rangers and the SPL. Fans will make a decision on whether to support the club based on the integrity of a 3rd party. The CIC process has to deliver complete transparency, ensure complete understanding of what will be delivered......this is not about board room battles, or selling CIC memberships....this is about people who care about the future of the club, want to protect that future and would like some influence over that future. We are no longer in selling mode. It needs to move to project mode. The money has been committed and people will now be thinking - what have we signed up to - have we done the right thing - what if, what if, what if. 10000 Hours needs to move away from sales documents and start working on detail documents that provide reassurances that the project is credible and deliverable. The document today is basically......give us your money...there'll be an interim Bod where we've named just three of the 5 people to be on it......that for me comes with a BIG WHY??????? Time to get specific and reassure people they are doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Errr the £10 a month members only vote within the cic structure, not the club! The 1877 members vote within both, and can be elected onto the SMFC board Is that not true for anyone who already has shares and is also becoming a member of the CIC?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 GLS, I have read the document and it is basically an appeal for cash rather that providing the detail that people are looking for in relation to how the CIC / SMFC will function. My finger is very hovering over the pause button until we get absolute clarity on what it is we are actually comminting the future of the club to. It is time to get out of sales pitch mode, which gets you as far as "okay, we like the idea and we're interested", to getting people to take the responsibility for a decision, which is massive for the long term future of the club. People are investing a lot of money into this. Might not be £25,000 or even £3,000 in a lump sum. However, it is significant to the individual - they are doing it because they care enough about the club to make a personal sacrifice...and I am quietly confident that their sacrifice of their disposable income will be greater than that of any business commiting £25,000 for something they will see an ROI on. We have seen the outrage from supporters based on the upcoming decision regarding rangers and the SPL. Fans will make a decision on whether to support the club based on the integrity of a 3rd party. The CIC process has to deliver complete transparency, ensure complete understanding of what will be delivered......this is not about board room battles, or selling CIC memberships....this is about people who care about the future of the club, want to protect that future and would like some influence over that future. We are no longer in selling mode. It needs to move to project mode. The money has been committed and people will now be thinking - what have we signed up to - have we done the right thing - what if, what if, what if. 10000 Hours needs to move away from sales documents and start working on detail documents that provide reassurances that the project is credible and deliverable. The document today is basically......give us your money...there'll be an interim Bod where we've named just three of the 5 people to be on it......that for me comes with a BIG WHY??????? Time to get specific and reassure people they are doing the right thing. Hear, Hear Siddles! Time to get the remainder of the 48% OTHER shareholders to exchange their shares for equity in the co-op, then get at least one of the selling 52% to do likewise! Then all membership money can go into a contingency/reserve rather than paying a big debt. also lose the enhanced voting privileges for the 1877 club, or stop calling it One member, one vote, because that ensures it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Your so-ooo right, maybe this is more worthy of debate. From 10000 hours doc released today: 'One vote within the CIC Company Structure which will own 52% of SMFC.' is what a £10 a month member gets 'A route to the club board. If a non executive St Mirren Football Club board position becomes available then any Non Executive board member interested in joining will be able to put themselves forward for consideration by all the club shareholders. • Use your 1877 shares to vote at the club AGM and any other shareholder meetings.' Is what a 1877 member gets two different members and two different votes That's the section that jumped out at me too. Perhaps it is just poorly worded; however it certainly requires significant clarification. It appears that 1877 has "a route to the club board". I don't think many ordinary members are overly clear on the route to the club BoD as yet, which to date has only a guaranteed single place on the SMFC Board according to the constitution. Looking at the overall doc, I reckon this just refers to having access to the SMFC Board facilities rather than an executive place on the BoD. Bottom line is people require details now, rather than sales collateral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Is that not true for anyone who already has shares and is also becoming a member of the CIC?? Spot on, but we werent debating that/you if you fall into that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hear, Hear Siddles! Time to get the remainder of the 48% OTHER shareholders to exchange their shares for equity in the co-op, then get at least one of the selling 52% to do likewise! Then all membership money can go into a contingency/reserve rather than paying a big debt. also lose the enhanced voting privileges for the 1877 club, or stop calling it One member, one vote, because that ensures it isn't Now you're back to posting shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Errr the £10 a month members only vote within the cic structure, not the club! The 1877 members vote within both, and can be elected onto the SMFC board As can the £10 p/m members. Of course the CIC members only get a vote within the CIC, but the CIC will have the majority shareholding, hence the casting vote in some respects (albeit subject to sensible caveats as laid out in the brochure). How esle would you propose doing this? The remaining 48% are fully entitled to retain their influence. If people pay £25K for the privelage, fair enough, but they won't have any greater influence over the majority shareholder than any other member of the CIC. Edit - typo Edited May 22, 2012 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 GLS, I have read the document and it is basically an appeal for cash rather that providing the detail that people are looking for in relation to how the CIC / SMFC will function. My finger is very hovering over the pause button until we get absolute clarity on what it is we are actually comminting the future of the club to. The very fact that Gordon is on here and active for the first time in many moons suggests to me that he is happy to provide clarity where required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Spot on, but we werent debating that/you if you fall into that category. I accept that's not what you were debating, what I can't see is whether you have a concern about people having a shareholding in SMFC and being a member of the CIC or if you're just trying to discredit the CIC on any basis?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLS Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 It is important the initial 5 man board has the required experience to help us set this up properly. There is no point in bringing people on for the sake of it. As per our statement on the website Tony and I will ensure continuity on the football side of things till the AGM and Richard will deal with getting the CIC side of things organised. Do we need anyone else? If the right person comes along that can help us then I would like him on board. If not I am happy to run with 3 until the AGM. Small point but both Tony, Richard and I are all CIC members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I accept that's not what you were debating, what I can't see is whether you have a concern about people having a shareholding in SMFC and being a member of the CIC or if you're just trying to discredit the CIC on any basis?? No! 10000 hours have cobbled together an amalgamation of a Co-op (one member, one vote) and a CiC (A company that can have skewed voting rights). It continually even in the document today misleads fans of SMFC into thinking membership of the CiC will mean one member, one vote in all matters SMFC. When as you have pointed out from another angle yet again that is not the case. But rather than explain this they continue to intentionally mislead the support of SMFC. The fun will start if they get their collection of spares parts to a formula one car over the line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 It is important the initial 5 man board has the required experience to help us set this up properly. There is no point in bringing people on for the sake of it. As per our statement on the website Tony and I will ensure continuity on the football side of things till the AGM and Richard will deal with getting the CIC side of things organised. Do we need anyone else? If the right person comes along that can help us then I would like him on board. If not I am happy to run with 3 until the AGM. Small point but both Tony, Richard and I are all CIC members. Would you (and Tony and Richard) be open to representations on the part of other CIC members prior to the AGM. Basically, what I'm getting at is would the interim CIC board be happy to liaise with other members should the latter have questions, concerns, or suggestions, and, if so, what might be the forum/means to facilitate this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 The very fact that Gordon is on here and active for the first time in many moons suggests to me that he is happy to provide clarity where required. Yet, you are happy to attack SG and the BoD on the scumger related thread....how does that work? There are some things we need to be very clear on. We will have an interim BoD. Two of the members are to date unknown. They will effectively have complete control of the 52% shareholding and ulimately control of the club for a significant period. That will be an unelected BoD that will have time to shape both the CIC and SMFC. We need to have some checks and balances in play during that period. It could transpire that REA is in fact a complete nutter and the other two shareholders are Duff & Phelps rendering Tony F and GLS's vote useless in terms of the CIC and SMFC, who's BoD make up is as yet unknown. WHilst it is an extreme scenario, the bottom line is we just don't know who could hold the decision making power at a critical period. We need to be seeing the detail now.....now what might happen, but a clear picture of exactly what the future holds for us rather than a "well that's up to you as fans will own the club" glib sales response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Would you (and Tony and Richard) be open to representations on the part of other CIC members prior to the AGM. Basically, what I'm getting at is would the interim CIC board be happy to liaise with other members should the latter have questions, concerns, or suggestions, and, if so, what might be the forum/means to facilitate this? I think they are saying rearrange these words "Ear... Rubber" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) No! 10000 hours have cobbled together an amalgamation of a Co-op (one member, one vote) and a CiC (A company that can have skewed voting rights). It continually even in the document today misleads fans of SMFC into thinking membership of the CiC will mean one member, one vote in all matters SMFC. When as you have pointed out from another angle yet again that is not the case. But rather than explain this they continue to intentionally mislead the support of SMFC. The fun will start if they get their collection of spares parts to a formula one car over the line! Who is misled? What passages of the brochure 'continually' mislead? Come on, back this up. Edited May 22, 2012 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think they are saying rearrange these words "Ear... Rubber" I think I'll await an answer form the person to whom I addressed the question, if that's quite alright with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yet, you are happy to attack SG and the BoD on the scumger related thread....how does that work? There are some things we need to be very clear on. We will have an interim BoD. Two of the members are to date unknown. They will effectively have complete control of the 52% shareholding and ulimately control of the club for a significant period. That will be an unelected BoD that will have time to shape both the CIC and SMFC. We need to have some checks and balances in play during that period. It could transpire that REA is in fact a complete nutter and the other two shareholders are Duff & Phelps rendering Tony F and GLS's vote useless in terms of the CIC and SMFC, who's BoD make up is as yet unknown. WHilst it is an extreme scenario, the bottom line is we just don't know who could hold the decision making power at a critical period. We need to be seeing the detail now.....now what might happen, but a clear picture of exactly what the future holds for us rather than a "well that's up to you as fans will own the club" glib sales response. Go on Sid whadya know? is KMcg's arse hovering once again above a seat in the boardroom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLS Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Would you (and Tony and Richard) be open to representations on the part of other CIC members prior to the AGM. Basically, what I'm getting at is would the interim CIC board be happy to liaise with other members should the latter have questions, concerns, or suggestions, and, if so, what might be the forum/means to facilitate this? Most certainly. The whole ethos of this is engaging the fans. I see that as much a part of what we are doing now as after we get control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest somner9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Who is misled? What passages of the brochure 'continually' mislead? Come on, back this up. read back up the page re different voting rights for different members quoted from 10000 hours doc released today..... then say so-reee somner9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think they are saying rearrange these words "Ear... Rubber" Yup, the disabled fans are still getting screwed over, despite fans being against that. It seems that it could be one way traffic as we are only getting traditional board members - only we are paying for them to be in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yet, you are happy to attack SG and the BoD on the scumger related thread....how does that work? WTF are you slabbering on about now? Explain the relevance of this or gie's peace. If you keep things sensible, you've generally got a lot of decent points to make. Descend into this puerile trolling, and you simply discredit everything else you are trying to say. Give it up, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Most certainly. The whole ethos of this is engaging the fans. I see that as much a part of what we are doing now as after we get control. Will the club be dropping the embarrassing charges to disabled fans carers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 No! 10000 hours have cobbled together an amalgamation of a Co-op (one member, one vote) and a CiC (A company that can have skewed voting rights). It continually even in the document today misleads fans of SMFC into thinking membership of the CiC will mean one member, one vote in all matters SMFC. When as you have pointed out from another angle yet again that is not the case. But rather than explain this they continue to intentionally mislead the support of SMFC. The fun will start if they get their collection of spares parts to a formula one car over the line! Nonsense I have been intereted in the idea of the CiC, albeit with concerns, from day one and have read as much as the next person, attended meetings and shared dialogue with others on the matter. At no point was I confused as to whether I was entitled to a vote on CiC issues as opposed to a "direct" vote in all things SMFC. Where I believe the influence will be is with the power of the 52% block vote on the SMFC Board. If it's one member on vote within the CiC then the 52% influence will be determined by the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) read back up the page re different voting rights for different members quoted from 10000 hours doc released today..... then say so-reee somner9 No - you provide the evidence to back up your claim. ETA: I've already responded to that post. It wasn't supporting your position then, and it isn't supporting it now. Edited May 22, 2012 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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