Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Do you 6 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Any thoughts on the subject IOBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: Do you Any thoughts on the subject IOBS? Oh yes , you first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Oh yes , you first. Was just wondering why you posted that cartoon without any explanatory text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Sanchez Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: Was just wondering why you posted that cartoon without any explanatory text. It's most peoples' response when confronted with wave particle duality. Edited October 29, 2018 by Dirty Sanchez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dirty Sanchez said: It's most peoples' response when confronted with wave particle duality. Yes and it's not surprising considering the way it is presented. One minute they are dumbing the shit out of it with nonsense like "it's like the electron knows it is being watched" (although I have used this description myself in the past ) and in another minute they are talking about how physically observing the electron causes the "wavefunction to collapse" as though the wavefunction was a real breathing thing rather than a mathematical construct. They use the same confused nonsense when describing the Schrodingers cat situation. You have to hand it to physics people though. They sure know how to spin a yarn. Edited October 30, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Dirty Sanchez said: It's most peoples' response when confronted with wave particle duality. It's mind mindboggling stuff as much as it sounds crazy Our entire universe is a simulation being run on a computer ,crazy yes but it really makes you wonder. That should be enough for Oaksoft to come along and have his field day , over to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 22 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Is this clearer than a half time team talk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: Is this clearer than a half time team talk? What do you pick up from it Ricky ? It is a mind bender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: What do you pick up from it Ricky ? It is a mind bender. In Saint Mirren terms.. the players act as expected in training and produce the expected pattern and results but when Observed they produce a different result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: It's mind mindboggling stuff as much as it sounds crazy Our entire universe is a simulation being run on a computer ,crazy yes but it really makes you wonder. That should be enough for Oaksoft to come along and have his field day , over to you. Sorry to disappoint but there is absolutely no chance of me wasting my time discussing any aspect of Quantum Mechanics with you my friend. It's a fascinating and weird subject though. I won't be discussing the insane rambling thoughts of Elon Musk either, regarding his nonsensical guff about computer simulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, St.Ricky said: In Saint Mirren terms.. the players act as expected in training and produce the expected pattern and results but when Observed they produce a different result. That's a very good answer Ricky one Oran is scratching his head over for a fix even one he might not understand . Quantum Mechanics has brought computers iPads , mobile Phones make you wonder what it holds for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: Sorry to disappoint but there is absolutely no chance of me wasting my time discussing any aspect of Quantum Mechanics with you my friend. It's a fascinating and weird subject though. I won't be discussing the insane rambling thoughts of Elon Musk either, regarding his nonsensical guff about computer simulations. Did I say that's what we live in ? No I wrote the video can point to such a thought big difference there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: That's a very good answer Ricky one Oran is scratching his head over for a fix even one he might not understand . Quantum Mechanics has brought computers iPads , mobile Phones make you wonder what it holds for the future. Just finished a book I mentioned on here in another thread which looks at past, present and future human and AI development including conciousness . PM me if you want the name. Certainly made me think. I can recall in the 1970s other managers saying that computers held no threat to our jobs Not true as a number discovered . The future of work is going to change shape dramatically, impacting on many parts of our lives. Edited October 30, 2018 by St.Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: I wrote the video can point to such a thought You are reading too much into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, St.Ricky said: Just finished a book I mentioned on here in another thread which looks at past, present and future human and AI development including conciousness . PM me if you want the name. Certainly made me think. I can recall in the 1970s other managers saying that computers held no threat to our jobs Not true as a number discovered . The future of work is going to change shape dramatically, impacting on many parts of our lives. People have been hyping the arse off AI for more years than I have been alive and yet here we are, same levels of employment, higher wages than almost any time in our history. The people in manual jobs will see their lives change. I am not yet convinced that white collar work is doomed. There are a couple of major challenges at least which I cant see being overcome. Firstly, all AI systems rely on training and by default are subject to corruption and bias. Secondly, their input comes from humans. Google still can't work out what I want to buy or browse to any reasonable degree of accuracy. The robots may be coming but they are flawed. This stinks of another tech bubble. I reckon the whole thing will crash and burn for financial reasons well before they take over. The single biggest problem is that people are rushing to market with substandard products in their haste to make money before the technology is proven in the hope that having money coming in will fund their attempts at getting the tech right in the future. The whole of Agile software development is based on this model. It's fatally flawed IMO but time will tell. Those who are not educated enough to follow the tech (which is virtually everyone) will understandably panic but I just feel like I have seen all this before. Edited October 30, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, oaksoft said: People have been hyping the arse off AI for more years than I have been alive and yet here we are, same levels of employment, higher wages than almost any time in our history. The people in manual jobs will see their lives change. I am not yet convinced that white collar work is doomed. There are a couple of major challenges at least which I cant see being overcome. Firstly, all AI systems rely on training and by default are subject to corruption and bias. Secondly, their input comes from humans. Google still can't work out what I want to buy or browse to any reasonable degree of accuracy. The robots may be coming but they are flawed. This stinks of another tech bubble. I reckon the whole thing will crash and burn for financial reasons well before they take over. The single biggest problem is that people are rushing to market with substandard products in their haste to make money before the technology is proven in the hope that having money coming in will fund their attempts at getting the tech right in the future. The whole of Agile software development is based on this model. It's fatally flawed IMO but time will tell. Those who are not educated enough to follow the tech (which is virtually everyone) will understandably panic but I just feel like I have seen all this before. I'm not hyping it Oaksoft. Neither does the book I just finished. It, like myself, merely poses questions. The basis of your argument is rubbish in, rubbish out. impossible to argue against that, so I wont. That's a given. The initial question is whether Machines are/will be more effective and efficient than humans and how cost competitive these will be. At present robotics is aimed at repetitive tasks whether manual or intellectual. This presently limits the scope for AI. You touch on a good point when you mention training or familiarity. Google, as popular as it is, is still in the early stages of development. Looking to the future then flaws will continue to exist in both the human and AI spheres. The key element is perhaps how well we integrate human biology and machine intelligence.I know that the latter is an area of science that is developing quickly with, I believe, The University of Glasgow playing a leading role. No need to panic but plenty of justification for revisiting the topic often, particularly with the upcoming generation in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 I have a new colouring book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said: I have a new colouring book Too advanced for me CG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Human life time in the world has been long in Universe time it is very short. We are rapidly moving into science fiction territory. Edited October 31, 2018 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Human life time in the world has been long in Universe time it is very short. We are rapidly moving into science friction territory. I know, it's rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Eric Arthur Blair said: 1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Human life time in the world has been long in Universe time it is very short. We are rapidly moving into science friction territory. I know, it's rough. Well spotted and thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) The reason I put up the video was to read opinions on why electrons act differently when being watched. That’s the compelling evidence for the video / experiment. Edited October 31, 2018 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The reason I put up the video was to read opinions on why electrons act differently when being watched. That’s the compelling evidence for the video / experiment. If you hadn't been such a dick, you could have led with that and I would have answered you on the first page. Right. Strap yourself in. It isn't easy to explain something which is purely mathematical using analogies and pictures to anyone who lacks the many many years of education in the subject but I'll have a go. Electrons are tiny and weigh almost nothing. In order to see anything you need to see how it interacts with electromagnetic waves. For example, visible light is an electromagnetic wave. You shine that light on something and you see what it reflects and absorbs. That is how you see things. Now think about where that light comes from. The sun. It comes in as packets of photons. These photons have momentum and you feel that as warmth on your skin. If photons hit an electron, it has the effect of a swinging mallet on a snooker ball. The ball moves quite a considerable distance away from where it originally was and it changes its behaviour. So, whoever or whatever made the world we live in, they teased us by ensuring that you can never actually see the smallest pieces which make it up. Nobody has ever seen an electron and nobody ever will. We use a mathematical object called a wavefunction to describe electrons. It contains everything that is possible to know about the electron including everywhere the electron can possibly be. The ACTUAL electron can only be in one place but the MATHS must cover all bases. When you make an observation of a property of the electron, you get to see which of these mathematically possibilities actually exist in reality. The other possibilities describbed by the wavefunction by definition can't be true and the purely mathematical wavefunction "collapses" and you are left with the single property value. If you want more info than that you need to be looking at Quantum Electrodynamics. Strangely enough, someone posted a video by the discoverer of that Physics in a post above. In addition to 4 years of maths and physics at school, you are looking at a minimum of 5 years of maths and physics at university plus a PhD as well (which is 3 to 5 years in the UK). So that's a total of about 12 to 14 years of education I am trying to save you here. Makes tou wonder why we put photographs of schoolkids in the papers when they get their Standar Grades results because they have barely started the journey to anything meaningful. The kicker is that even after all of that, most people still don't really know for certain what happens at the scale of an electron. With a requirement of at least 12 to 14 years of training, maybe now you can appreciate a little more why I am so harsh with the sort of pseudoscience bollox you and snake keep posting here? Edited October 31, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Human life time in the world has been long in Universe time it is very short. We are rapidly moving into science fiction territory. No we aren't. That video is shown to 2nd year Physics undergrads to stimulate interest in the subject and explain the history of thinking on the subject as it was discovered. An electron doesn't "know" anything. You are confusing reality with storytelling in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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