Sunny Saint

You see the early goals also and realise how much we miss Gowser. Great work sir.

I can fully appreciate why some would choose not to go to a game like this against the Old Firm - though if it were a cup final, I'm sure it would be a different case. I can still remember the vile songs we were subjected to by fans of the late Rangers (RIP) in that game, especially with them in the tier above us, and it was pretty sickening to think that we had to listen to that guff. That was enough to put me off being in their company again. I would never criticise people for not attending due to the fact we're playing one of the Old Firm. If they went simply because they thought we were going to get beat, that would be a totally different situation. That said, I can't let up the opportunity to go and see my team at Hampden. And I echo the comments of those above: we can win this game. Who's to say where both teams will be in a couple of months' time? Who's to say Celtic might not have lost Wanyama/Hooper/Forster to bigger clubs during that month? Who's to say we won't be the in-form team in the league? Who's to say Celtic won't have an off day, or we won't produce one of our once-in-a-blue-moon performances? It can happen.

I agree that budgets aren't everything, but they're intrinsically linked to success in football almost everywhere you look (Old Firm in Scotland, Chelsea/Man City in England, Real in Spain). But perhaps I should point out something about my last post: as opposed to budgets, I think it was income that they looked at, which is probably a fairer way to see things, because income can be spent on all manner of things including youth systems - something that both Barca and Celtic obviously invest fairly heavily in. What I'm saying is that a team like Killie, or St Mirren, or any other SPL side, has very limited income compared to Celtic/Barca and therefore very limited amounts of money to spend on the likes of players and youth systems. For a team like Killie to go to Celtic Park and win 2-0 (scoring one more and conceding two less than Barcelona!) is an outstanding achievement, far more - I'd argue - of an achievement than Celtic winning 2-1 at home to Barca. Though I'm not sure how many Celtic fans would actually admit that... What this does prove, though - as Poz pointed out above - is that there's no need to be scared of bigger and better teams than you. That applies to both Scotland and St Mirren. I've not once seen Neil Lennon do anything but praise his own team and talk up his own players, and that's exactly how it should be. I'm not looking forward to Danny drooling over Barca when we draw them in next season's Champions League.

That's absolutely the highlight of it all for me. He certainly seems like a great talent and at 18, to be scoring Champions League goals against Barcelona, bodes extremely well for the future of our national team. I have to credit Celtic as they seem to be nurturing him into a good player and not burning him out with too many games. Off the Ball was discussing the Barca-Celtic match a couple of weeks ago and worked out that Celtic have more 'times' the resources of a club like Motherwell (one of the higher SPL budgets) than Barca do of Celtic. It kind of puts this into perspective: Celtic are a massive club with massive resources at their disposal, and are closer to Barca in their resources than they are to other SPL clubs. The defeat by Kilmarnock of Celtic at Parkhead a couple of weeks ago was a greater achievement than that one witnessed tonight, if you take the budgets into account, the fact that Killie were playing away from home, and the inexperience of some of their players of playing an occasion like that. That's not to take anything away from Celtic because they really shouldn't be beating Barca - and I wish they hadn't - but some perspective doesn't do any harm on nights like these. I also hate those who are crawling out the woodwork on the likes of Twitter and Facebook this evening lamenting this as a great day in their lives. 90% of them wouldn't know where to find Celtic Park if I asked for directions. They were nowhere to be seen after said Killie match and obviously couldn't be bothered to turn up for the League Cup match last week. Greatest fans in the world? Greatest glory hunters in the world.

Again, if they're so Scottish, why do they drape themselves in Tricolours and sing Irish songs? Similarly, why would I want the fans of a team which is one half of a bigoted, sectarian organisation (Old Firm) to have glory in Europe? I'm not bitter, I just hate everything they stand for and that doesn't change because they're playing a bigger team in Europe.

Now they know how it feels to be so close to a big result against a far, far bigger team and lose in the last minute. Get it right up them all. Why would anyone want them to win for 'Scottish football'? They think they're so Scottish that they decorate Parkhead in tricolours every week. They couldn't care less about us and I couldn't care less about them.

Note to any Saints players/managers reading: this is how to play against a team with infinitely more resources than you.

Marc McAusland's by far and away better than anyone mentioned on this thread or ever going to be mentioned on this thread. He has his flaws but he's nowhere near being the 'worst player' to wear the stripes.

I wish they had so as to see them defend Salmond's and Cameron's comments on Rangers (RIP) from February. Salmond: Cameron: It's PLEASING that we're currently enjoying a great SPL campaign without the now-departed late Rangers FC.

Charles Green: complete tosspot... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19924802?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=sportsound Arsenal v Southamption: sold out. Those poor souls - 60,361 forced to watch Arsenal v Southampton. They'd far rather see carthorses like Lee McCulloch, Kevin Kyle, Ian Black and Lee Wallace destroying the good name of football on the Emirates pitch than a Southampton side which would ride Sevco into oblivion.

I know that this is all just bluster from numpties like us on an Internet forum, but the fact that those kind of figures are involved is nothing short of scandalous IMO. This was a club's chance to start afresh, like others have said to sign the best players at that level, and get rid of all the crap which was associated with the late Rangers. But they haven't done any of that. It's quite sad really and I think a lot of The Rangers fans would agree. Why spend money they don't have to spend? It's just indicative of the type of sickness which has crept into football and is going to start biting clubs on the arse sooner rather than later.

Yeah, this is the same guy who said three months ago that Rangers in the SPL was "not viable". He should be punted now that his predictions have been shown to be complete bollocks.

Seriously FS, if you don't like a thread, don't come on and read it. It really is that simple! This is a St Mirren (and football) forum. They're on here debating a footballing incident involving St Mirren's record appearance maker. You should take yourself "away from here" and post somewhere else if you've got nothing to add to the debate in question other than criticising fellow posters (and decent ones at that). Who gives a f**k? Obviously the people posting in this thread give a f**k! This seems like a really unfortunate incident and I hope the boy makes a full and speedy recovery. I'm sure Shuggie is as gutted about it as anyone else. Like others have said though, Shuggie is a credit to the game as when he gets on the park, all he wants to do is play the game. There are world-class footballers who could learn a thing or two from the attitude of guys like Hugh Murray, on and off the park.

Good points. The retrospective part may be fairer. If it's proven that a player has dived and gained a free kick/penalty which he has then scored from, that goal should be taken off the team retrospectively and the points adjusted accordingly. If a player dives in an attempt to win a foul but doesn't get it, and it's later shown he dived, the player should serve a one-game suspension. Do it again, and it's two games, etc. I'm sure there are 100 other ideas as to how to clamp down on diving - which is blatant cheating, no more, no less - but the authorities need to find the solution. It's costing teams points, games, and potentially trophies, and that just nullifies the whole point of playing football.

I'm not quite sure how you can say that. For a start, McGinn (younger than McGowan) was snapped up by a Championship side aged 20/21 (?) at a time McGowan was still kicking around Celtic's reserves or playing for the likes of Hamilton. McGinn also proved himself as a Championship-quality player before his serious injury as he was a first pick for Watford and was running their games in the way McGowan so often does for us. I'm not saying McGinn is better than McGowan, but his career path thus far would certainly suggest he is at least as good as him. If we had the chance to take him on loan I'd bite their hand off, but barring either McLean or McGowan being injured long-term by January, I don't think it will happen. We have a far more pressing need to sort our defence than sign another midfielder.

So would I. I'm getting sick of watching Suarez falling on his arse every week then throwing a tantrum when the ref refuses to give him a penalty. Red cards for any player that dives and it would all but stop overnight. Sadly, football now has this culture of 'if you're touched, you have the right to go down'. No you f*cking don't! That's like saying if someone brushes past you in the street, you have the right to do them for assault. I'm fed up of pundits coming out with this line time and time again, and more of them seeming to agree with it, as it's playing into the diving players' hands. We all know too well what diving can do to harm results in football (Nakamura you little bawbag). I think we'd all be glad to say we don't have anyone of that ilk currently playing for the Buds - even Imrie, who was previously a huge culprit, doesn't do it any more, which is pleasing to see.

I haven't read through the whole thread but on the face of it Drew it sounds like a good idea. I'd certainly be encouraged to get a smart card. In fact, I'm surprised schemes like this aren't more widely used elsewhere.

Can someone please clarify the link between Paul McGinn and Stephen McGinn?

---->LOL<----

Coming from a poster whose avatar is Sir Shug of Murray himself and is called lovestreet, that is a shite attempt at a wind-up. Must try harder.

So, everyone was supposed to just go "ahh, what the hell!" and back it with their own money just for the sake of getting fans' ownership? http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18464359 More than 1,000 every-day punters were willing to put their money into this - that was more than 10000 Hours had even asked for. The fans' support fell short in the areas where thousands of pounds' worth of investment was required. We are in the hardest financial times any of us have ever known and football is costly enough, so can you really blame people for not stumping up £3,000 or £25,000 for a scheme which did require a certain amount of blind faith and plenty of uncertainty? It's bizarre that you appear to be blaming the supporters for this bid failing. A quarter of our average home support were willing to pay over and above what they already pay to St Mirren to be a part of this; factor in those who will always be sceptical, the amount of people who probably didn't take an interest, children, those who can't afford it, etc. - plus the fact that the whole CIC concept was lost on many, including myself - and that's pretty good going.

That is just total nonsense. I was not totally convinced by the takeover bid and not convinced by 10000 Hours' ability to run the football club going forward without hitting some sort of financial difficulty. I'm not just going to back the bid because it's a fans' takeover and because it sounds like a great idea on paper. It has to be viable. IIRC, 10000 Hours hit their target in respect of the number of fans they wanted signed up to this, but still couldn't finalise a deal. I think that says everything we need to know. It was up to 10000 Hours to convince more people to come on board if that was what was required, not the other way about. The fans are blameless in all of this, and in fact, given how many were willing to back the bid with a certain degree of blind faith, I think the fans come out of this pretty well.

It's been so long and drawn out that I'm sort of relieved that this hasn't gone through, because I don't feel there was anywhere near enough certainty that it was going to work and that the club would continue to be able to compete on the same financial level as it does currently. If it had been such a good model in the first place, it would not have dragged on this long and the deal would have been signed months ago. Fans' takeovers sound fantastic on paper but they need to work financially. This bid never filled me with complete confidence that it would do that.

I think the wording of that leaves it open to interpretation but my reading of that was that they're just trying to reassure the fans that they won't now just sell the club to an unknown who arrives with the required amount of cash - unless they have the best interests of the club at heart. I don't think they're saying anything against the fans or 10000 Hours.

One of his recent tweets reads: "Finally became an uncle 2day too a baby boy called will.. Congrats @dummett11 and miranda!" That explains the connection. His brother is riding Franco...