Yet Another Snp Policy Falls Apart

[salmonbuddie]

Getting bored? You must have an extraordinarily high boredom threshold.......

[The Real Zippy]

_{I predict 87 pages.}

_{Mainly around Wishaw's version of Idi Amin being prodded and poked at in a John Hurt/Elephant Man styleeeeeeeee.............................}

[erskinebud]

Couldn't agree more, Bud-in EK. The post referendum hysterics from Yes men makes me think of the Hearts 1986 Syndrome. Poor losers and tedious.

Yes it's a shame that the Yes voters started this thread to bring the referendum back to the fore. They should all be so embar... oh wait the OP isn't a Yes voter, is he? Or perhaps "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"

[Stuart Dickson]

Yes it's a shame that the Yes voters started this thread to bring the referendum back to the fore. They should all be so embar... oh wait the OP isn't a Yes voter, is he? Or perhaps "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"

The only ones "protesting" appear to be the Yes voters on here. Maybe you'll answer the question SNP candidates appear to be being asked by the party leadership. Would you be happy for the SNP to do a deal with the Conservatives, keeping David Cameron in power, even if it meant supporting the Bedroom Tax?

[Stuart Dickson]

Is this guy making the claims not the same one that the No side was trying to discredit during the referendum debate, calling him all sorts of things? If he was "full of shit" then, why would you believe him now?

Dunno? Were they? You'll need to reappraise me on what I'm supposed to have said about Craig Murray during the campaign. He's certainly not got a name I remember using.

For me my targets were that horrific website Wings Over Scotland, Alex Salmond, John Swinney, and Kenny McAskill with a fair chunk of Alex Neil thrown in just cause I really don't like him - oh and the thick as mince Fiona Hyslop cause she really is an odious creature. Pat Kane and Pat Harvie were too soft a target to go after - and the only other real worthwhile target during the whole campaign was the homophobic zealot and former SNP leader Gordon Wilson. Of the other characters on the Yes side I actually remember being hugely complimentary of Jim Sillars and of Margo McDonald. Beyond that I can only really think of the absurd celebrities that the SNP cuddled up to in Brian Cox, Alan Cumming, Elaine C Smith and Sean Connery whose names were really prominent.

As I remember it, it was the Yes Campaign who scurried to discredit anyone and anything that wasn't toeing the party line no matter how ridiculous the slur - indeed just as you are attempting to do here with your last post.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[RickMcD]

Is this guy making the claims not the same one that the No side was trying to discredit during the referendum debate, calling him all sorts of things? If he was "full of shit" then, why would you believe him now?

Don't know and don't care if Stu tried to discredit him but I mentioned him when his name cropped up. Murray is a vastly interesting character but his behaviour in Uzbekistan when he was the British Ambassador was really extraordinary. When you are a member of the Diplomatic Service, believe it or not you are supposed to be diplomatic but he was a loose cannon. The establishment couldn't accept his behaviour and he was removed. Since then he has been totally anti-establishment and you might argue no wonder but his behaviour was extraordinary and in some ways still is. He seems to want to change allegiance as often as some of us change our knickers. Political parties don't like loose cannons and few really make much progress which in some ways is a shame. But our political system with its whips as bouncers doesn't approve. If you don't kiss ass you get the heave. Salmond in that regard is as bad as the other party leaders. A lot of talented SNP people were quietly dropped if they didn't accept Salmond's ideology entirely. Open honest debate in UK politics is a dream.

[erskinebud]

The only ones "protesting" appear to be the Yes voters on here. Maybe you'll answer the question SNP candidates appear to be being asked by the party leadership. Would you be happy for the SNP to do a deal with the Conservatives, keeping David Cameron in power, even if it meant supporting the Bedroom Tax?

It would be hugely inappropriate for me to answer on behalf of a party that I have never voted for nor supported, and I can't think why I should try. Like all of those who from the No side of the argument, you seem to mix up the three letters of Yes with those of SNP. It appears that not only is your mathematics re voters numbers and barrel prices suspect, but also you have a basic problem with English interpretation.

[salmonbuddie]

The only ones "protesting" appear to be the Yes voters on here. Maybe you'll answer the question SNP candidates appear to be being asked by the party leadership. Would you be happy for the SNP to do a deal with the Conservatives, keeping David Cameron in power, even if it meant supporting the Bedroom Tax?

As usual, the poster has swallowed the story spun by the msn. Here's what really went on as described by someone who was actually there.

http://misssymartin.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-other-side-of-story.html?m=1

Edited December 31, 2014 by salmonbuddie

[Stuart Dickson]

As usual, the poster has swallowed the story spun by the msn. Here's what really went on as described by someone who was actually there.

http://misssymartin.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-other-side-of-story.html?m=1

How does she know what REALLY went on at someone elses selection process? She doesn't even claim that herself. She just explains her experience of the process that she got through at the Scottish WOMANS conference!!!! She has also said that she answered the Bedroom Tax question by saying she would be happy to vote in favour of the Bedroom Tax if it meant a concession of more powers to Holyrood. At least that's an honest answer. Her electorate will get the chance to vote on whether they'd agree with that stance in May. I do wish other Natsi's would declare their position with as much honesty and integrity too. Are the Scottish Electorate being asked to turn their backs on Labour only to discover that the SNP will strike a deal, possibly with the Conservatives and UKIP in return for some meagre powers, or for another referendum?

Let's see this laid out in clear plain English in the General Election manifesto and have the courage to put your single policy issue and what you'd be willing to concede to get it on show for the electorate. Who knows, perhaps the people of Scotland would be happy with your position.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[salmonbuddie]

She has also said that she answered the Bedroom Tax question by saying she would be happy to vote in favour of the Bedroom Tax if it meant a concession of more powers to Holyrood.

Really? Here's what I read:

"I know others who gave an answer which said that the question was moot as the SNP would never support the Bedroom Tax and proceeded to give a full answer as to why this was the case. They and I passed vetting. None of us came out of the interview shouting "Holy crap! the SNP want us to support the Bedroom Tax!"

[Stuart Dickson]

Really? Here's what I read:

"I know others who gave an answer which said that the question was moot as the SNP would never support the Bedroom Tax and proceeded to give a full answer as to why this was the case. They and I passed vetting. None of us came out of the interview shouting "Holy crap! the SNP want us to support the Bedroom Tax!"

I can't help the fact that you can't read but here's the full version of what she actually said

As for the Bedroom tax. I am weary of having to explain in 140 characters on Twitter how this question worked. It's one of the reasons I've written this post. At the vetting interview there were a few questions which were designed to elicit discussion, test your ability to face personal dilemma and prove an understanding of the challenges an SNP cohort in Westminster might face. I got a similiar question but answered it in a way which allowed me to suppose that the situation was one in which the mitigating measures and extra powers we had secured for the Scottish Parliament would mean that our core ideologies were intact and the people of Scotland would be helped. The panel allowed me the space to pontificate on this at length. I know others who gave an answer which said that the question was moot as the SNP would never support the Bedroom Tax and proceeded to give a full answer as to why this was the case. They and I passed vetting. None of us came out of the interview shouting "Holy crap! the SNP want us to support the Bedroom Tax!"

It doesn't need further explanation. Clearly she took the opinion that making a difficult choice to support policy that her constituents might not was OK so long as extra powers were secured for Scotland.. As I said at least she's been honest. I hope the SNP will be honest with the electorate in their General Election manifesto and admit that they may well seek to be part of a coalition with the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP and whoever else they need to pal up with in order to get a deal on more powers for the Scottish Parliament. They are a single issue party, it shouldn't really be a surprise to the kind of people who vote for them.

Lets face it you aren't doing well here. In your last post you seemed to believe that she had written that Craig Murray was vetted at the Scottish Womans Conference. I know some of the SNP candidates are freakishly weird and wired to the moon but I didn't have Craig Murray down as transsexual.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[salmonbuddie]

For a change, you're right - it doesn't need further explanation, read the final sentence of the bit you've quoted and ask yourself why only one person of the many who went through the same vetting process came to the conclusion that the SNP would ever support the Bedroom Tax.

Like it or not, the blue Tories are toxic in Scotland as the red Tories are finding out if the polls are to be believed. The SNP will never cut a deal with them to enable them to form a government.

[oaksoft]

I can't help the fact that you can't read but here's the full version of what she actually said

It doesn't need further explanation. Clearly she took the opinion that making a difficult choice to support policy that her constituents might not was OK so long as extra powers were secured for Scotland.. As I said at least she's been honest. I hope the SNP will be honest with the electorate in their General Election manifesto and admit that they may well seek to be part of a coalition with the Conservatives, Lib Dems, UKIP and whoever else they need to pal up with in order to get a deal on more powers for the Scottish Parliament. They are a single issue party, it shouldn't really be a surprise to the kind of people who vote for them.

Lets face it you aren't doing well here. In your last post you seemed to believe that she had written that Craig Murray was vetted at the Scottish Womans Conference. I know some of the SNP candidates are freakishly weird and wired to the moon but I didn't have Craig Murray down as transsexual.

You are misreading it.

She's talking about extra powers being available to Scotland to allow us to mitigate for it being brought in as a UK policy.

You even highlighted the bit where she talked about the people of Scotland being helped.

She's proposing a compromise where she can consider supporting the bedroom tax in the UK parliament providing Scots can avoid it via powers given to Holyrood in return for not blocking it. At the moment we have no powers to mitigate it. It's an interesting way of getting around a red line issue.

Honestly you are like a child.

[bluto]

You are misreading it.

She's talking about extra powers being available to Scotland to allow us to mitigate for it being brought in as a UK policy.

You even highlighted the bit where she talked about the people of Scotland being helped.

She's proposing a compromise where she can consider supporting the bedroom tax in the UK parliament providing Scots can avoid it via powers given to Holyrood in return for not blocking it. At the moment we have no powers to mitigate it. It's an interesting way of getting around a red line issue.

Honestly you are like a child.

Talking of being child-like...

Have you forgotten that Scotland DOES already have " powers to mitigate" many of the offensive policies imposed on all other Brits?

It could use its so far unused devolved power to raise income tax. An extra 3p in the £, IIRC.

That would seem a more practical and immediate way of getting round it.

Though I can understand why politicians would not want to raise taxes on their electorate.

[Stuart Dickson]

No one has claimed that the SNP suddenly support the Bedroom Tax, not even Murray. The issue is what the SNP will be willing to trade for concessions with regards to more powers for Holyrood. They are a single issue party after all.

In the blog you've quoted this candidate has intimidated that she answered that she would vote for the Bedroom Tax so long as it was for more powers. At least she's honest. I just hope she puts that out to her electorate when campaigning. After all more powers for Holyrood no matter the cost might not be quite so high on their list of priorities.

[salmonbuddie]

You are misreading it.

It's not as if he has a history of that now, is it?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Happy New Year. I spent the bells with some of my family and loved ones...just saying.

[oaksoft]

No one has claimed that the SNP suddenly support the Bedroom Tax, not even Murray. The issue is what the SNP will be willing to trade for concessions with regards to more powers for Holyrood. They are a single issue party after all.

In the blog you've quoted this candidate has intimidated that she answered that she would vote for the Bedroom Tax so long as it was for more powers. At least she's honest. I just hope she puts that out to her electorate when campaigning. After all more powers for Holyrood no matter the cost might not be quite so high on their list of priorities.

Repeating the same nonsense won't simply make it true.

Edited January 1, 2015 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

Have you forgotten that Scotland DOES already have " powers to mitigate" many of the offensive policies imposed on all other Brits?

You want to ask Scots to pay substantially more tax to partially fix a problem created by a government we didn't vote for?

Yeah that seems fair.......

[bluto]

You want to ask Scots to pay substantially more tax to partially fix a problem created by a government we didn't vote for?

Yeah that seems fair.......

Uhm...

All Scots who voted in the General Election, DID vote for the government that was elected eventually.

I know democracy has its flaws like... failing to win a referendum can be counted as actually winning the referendum, but in the real world....?

Do you REALLY believe that all those Scots who voted LibDem didn't actually vote LibDem?

Same with the few who voted Tory... Or SNP for that matter.

You/WE all voted and in democracies, flawed as they may be - the sensible, moral thing is to respect the wishes of the majority.

Now THAT seems fair to me.

The Scots wanted a devolved power exactly like the tax-raising power. They got it. They don't use it. You know why not. It's not really fairy dust, it's cash out of a voter's purse or pocket.

The Scots have free university education, better care for their old folk and many other things that some people think are also unfair.

Democracy: swings and bloody roundabouts.

Life is also not fair.

[oaksoft]

Uhm...

All Scots who voted in the General Election, DID vote for the government that was elected eventually.

I know democracy has its flaws like... failing to win a referendum can be counted as actually winning the referendum, but in the real world....?

Do you REALLY believe that all those Scots who voted LibDem didn't actually vote LibDem?

Same with the few who voted Tory... Or SNP for that matter.

You/WE all voted and in democracies, flawed as they may be - the sensible, moral thing is to respect the wishes of the majority.

Now THAT seems fair to me.

The Scots wanted a devolved power exactly like the tax-raising power. They got it. They don't use it. You know why not. It's not really fairy dust, it's cash out of a voter's purse or pocket.

The Scots have free university education, better care for their old folk and many other things that some people think are also unfair.

Democracy: swings and bloody roundabouts.

Life is also not fair.

Sorry we voted Labour up here in swathes and we ended up with a LibDem/Tory coalition.

That isn't democratic.

Unless you want to compare Scotland not voting Tory to Orkney not voting SNP again in which case I'll leave you to get back to gently caressing the inner tube of Dickson's arse.

[bluto]

Sorry, the people of Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber and other parts of Scotland voted LibDem, so you think you should impose YOUR arbitrarily selected area for democracy on THEM.

I thought you were educated. You're seriously saying some daft things here, when I am trying to be reasonable.

Where did you get your education and/or degree?

North Korea?

[oaksoft]

Sorry, the people of Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber and other parts of Scotland voted LibDem, so you think you should impose YOUR arbitrarily selected area for democracy on THEM.

Pish. Utter pish.

Comparing a handful of people in Nairn with an entire country.

That is why you can't be taken seriously.

[bluto]

Pish. Utter pish.

Comparing a handful of people in Nairn with an entire country.

That is why you can't be taken seriously.

That is a totally rational response, of course. Certainly worthy of your education in North Korea.

You are doing what you would condemn little Englanders of doing.

As valid as comparing and dismissing the bleatings of a minority handful of Jocks with the wishes of an entire nation.

As in 5 million against 60+ million.

You obviously don't believe that those Jocks, in that particular constituency, are the right kind of Jock - unlike those you would favour in the Central belt, perhaps?

Nationalism is never pretty, nor logical....

Edited January 1, 2015 by bluto

[BuddieinEK]

Pish. Utter pish.

Comparing a handful of people in Nairn with an entire country.

That is why you can't be taken seriously.

So democracy only counts over what number then?

It either is or isn't democracy surely?