Stuart Dickson Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The fact that he made no mention of any misbehviour whi ch led to the tragedy occurring does exonerate them. The finger is clearly pointed at South Yorks police in their failure to manage that event. There would have been clear mention in the report if the fans were at fault. Case closed Oh FFS. What a load of bollocks. Get back to your ear biting dafty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Only one ear biter on here. Away and have a wank over a picture of that other nonce Bernard Ingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Only one ear biter on here. Away and have a wank over a picture of that other nonce Bernard Ingham. "that other nonce Bernard Inham" - just for complete clarity please tell me who exactly are you accusing here of being a sex offender or child sex offender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 For posterity, have a look at www.contrast.org. Again, no mention of any fan misbehaviour playing any part in the tragedy. For me, case closed. Not dragging this thread into who is and who isnt a sex offender nor entering into any more 'debate'with someone who is quite clearly a cerebrally challenged, attention seeking manchild so will bow out, fatty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 For posterity, have a look at www.contrast.org. Again, no mention of any fan misbehaviour playing any part in the tragedy. For me, case closed. Not dragging this thread into who is and who isnt a sex offender nor entering into any more 'debate'with someone who is quite clearly a cerebrally challenged, attention seeking manchild so will bow out, fatty. Erm - you appear to have already accused Sir Bernard Ingham of being a nonce and you told me to go "have a wank" over his picture whilst intimating that someone else was a nonce in your sentence. You can make those assertions without proof if you want, but you leave yourself open to any number of legal options. I do hope you weren't insinuating that I was one of those "nonces" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 You might not be a nonce Stuart, but you're still a fat c**t. Good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Erm - you appear to have already accused Sir Bernard Ingham of being a nonce and you told me to go "have a wank" over his picture whilst intimating that someone else was a nonce in your sentence. You can make those assertions without proof if you want, but you leave yourself open to any number of legal options. I do hope you weren't insinuating that I was one of those "nonces" Why not have a wank over Sunderland's Premiership status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Newcastle out of the bottom 3 (for the moment, at least), that must cheer him up. Newcastle getting out of the bottom three is clearly the fault of 1980s era Scousers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Maybe Bernard Ingham wanks over a Sunderland top..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 You might not be a nonce Stuart, but you're still a fat c**t. Good day. I'll accept your apology. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The bus conveyors are culpable too for not ensuring only ticket holders got on their buses and that they arrived with plenty of time to spare. Similarly any Liverpool fan who travelled to the game without a ticket with a view to gaining access was culpable. The FA are culpable for arranging the fixture at a stadium with previous - particularly in the 1981 Cup Semi Final. Football Hooligans anywhere in the UK were culpable too - after all it was their behaviour that led to the installation of pens and crowd barriers erected around pitches everywhere to stop incursions and which shaped police match day strategy on the day. The list of who or what is culpable could go on and on. The one thing that is certain it wasn't just Duckenfield whose decisions caused death. I'm certainly not comfortable with the blanket condemnation of South Yorkshire Police and the blanket exoneration of Liverpool fans. Just as some police officers did an exemplorary job that day....some Liverpool fans will have contributed to the deaths of 96 people. Stuart, you really are a grade A bawbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I didnt apologize Stuart. Unless in your batshit world being called a fat c**t constitutes as an apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Stuart, you really are a grade A bawbag. Maybe so, but it's correct David. It might not be fashionable to state it but at the end of the day, of course some Liverpool fans contributed to the deaths of the 96. No other instrument was used. Those who died were crushed by Liverpool fans. For me the verdict of the inquest is wrong and I'm certainly not at all comfortable with the rush now on to hunt down Duckenworth and to hang him from some sort of gallows. There were far more contributory factors, far larger numbers of people who made mistakes, or who behaved in a poor way. And the resultant cover up and attempts to rewrite history have certainly went far further than just South Yorkshire Police - any rational person can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Maybe so, but it's correct David. It might not be fashionable to state it but at the end of the day, of course some Liverpool fans contributed to the deaths of the 96. No other instrument was used. Those who died were crushed by Liverpool fans. For me the verdict of the inquest is wrong and I'm certainly not at all comfortable with the rush now on to hunt down Duckenworth and to hang him from some sort of gallows. There were far more contributory factors, far larger numbers of people who made mistakes, or who behaved in a poor way. And the resultant cover up and attempts to rewrite history have certainly went far further than just South Yorkshire Police - any rational person can see that. Cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Unless there was a line of police officers at the back pushing them in, he has a point. Whether their actions were criminally negligent/deliberate/accidental/unforseen/whatever is irrelevant to whether their actions contributed to the deaths. I think saying that the fans had no responsibility is a total cop out. Before anyone asks whether or not I was privy to the two years of evidence - no, I wasn't, just the same as everyone else commenting on here. And, as I think everyone on here is aware, I am not in the habit of agreeing with anything fatso says. Why are you so quick to simply dismiss those 2 years of evidence? Not a single official report has put any blame for the disaster onto fan behaviour. Not one. Now I am quite happy to have an opposing view on something but not when I have acknowledged not being privy to the evidence. So where exactly is your CERTAINTY about the fans behaviour being a contributing factor coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) I did. Lord Justice Taylor does not exonerate Liverpool fans in the Taylor Report.He also didnt specifically exonerate polar bears, chickens, global warming, tomato soup or the rise and fall of the Ottoman Empire.At no point does he blame the fans and unless you believe in guilty unless proven innocent, that is an end to the matter. Edited May 1, 2016 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Read Chapter 10 of the interim report where Taylor is satisfied drunken behaviour and ticketless fans, the latter of which there were very few. Also mentions the traffic delays which held up Liverpool fans approaching Sheffield. Yet fatty will no doubt try and twist that to suit his own warped agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Should have read Lord Taylor is satisfied drunkenness and ticketless fans were not a contributory factor. Bloody phone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I'm not dismissing any evidence, all I said was that I never heard it and neither did anyone else on here. Let's put it this way, if the gate had been opened and the fans had stayed where they were, outside the gate, would there have been a crush at the front of the middle pens. The answer to that is obviously "No". Or, if the gate had been opened and the fans all went to the side pens, would there have been a crush at the front of the middle pens, again "No". I'm not saying that anything was intentional or that any individual fan would/could have foreseen the potential result of the compounded effect of all they fans cramming into that one tunnel (at least not until they themselves were getting crushed in the tunnel, at which time it is too late for them to back off). However, the fact remains that the fans who died were crushed and trampled by other fans who, in turn, were getting pressure applied to them by other fans from behind - all the way back to the back of the crush. Holding anyone in the crowd legally, or even morally, responsible in that sort of situation is obviously a bit silly but that doesn't mean that they weren't physically responsible. I guess it all depends on what you mean by "responsible". People were crushed by people. That doesn't make them responsible, that's far too simplistic.Do you think Colin Stein was responsible for ibrox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 People were crushed by people. That doesn't make them responsible, that's far too simplistic. Do you think Colin Stein was responsible for ibrox? No one said it makes them responsible.....but it absolutely does make them a contributory factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Should have read Lord Taylor is satisfied drunkenness and ticketless fans were not a contributory factor. Bloody phone! You missed the bit where he said....at the turnstiles. If you could read you'd also know he stops well short of exoneration fans behaviour which you claimed he did. He simply rules out two of the causes as outlined by the police. The inquest verdict said that there was no doubt some fans tried to gain access without tickets but ruled out a "coordinated effort" to gain access as a factor. They also found that many fans had consumed alcohol but found that there was no evidence that the level of drinking had been unduly excessive. That's a long way short of absolving all fans of being in any way a contributory factor....which you've consistently claimed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 Doesnt matter whether the incident happened at the turnstiles or not. And he was satisfied that drunkenness played no part either. You always get one or two idiots who will try and pull a fast one and sneak in. But if you can actually read yourself again this was not a contributory factor into what happened. As Davidg says, your response is cringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 And like I said, if the fans were to blame Taylor would clearly have said so. So we can safely say the the blame lies elsewhere, as stated in the final report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I'm not dismissing any evidence, all I said was that I never heard it and neither did anyone else on here. Let's put it this way, if the gate had been opened and the fans had stayed where they were, outside the gate, would there have been a crush at the front of the middle pens. The answer to that is obviously "No". Or, if the gate had been opened and the fans all went to the side pens, would there have been a crush at the front of the middle pens, again "No". I'm not saying that anything was intentional or that any individual fan would/could have foreseen the potential result of the compounded effect of all they fans cramming into that one tunnel (at least not until they themselves were getting crushed in the tunnel, at which time it is too late for them to back off). However, the fact remains that the fans who died were crushed and trampled by other fans who, in turn, were getting pressure applied to them by other fans from behind - all the way back to the back of the crush. Holding anyone in the crowd legally, or even morally, responsible in that sort of situation is obviously a bit silly but that doesn't mean that they weren't physically responsible. I guess it all depends on what you mean by "responsible". Your first sentence is all that is required. Nobody on here sat through all of the evidence. Under thise circumstances we have no option but to trust the process of law and to respect the decision of a completely impartial jury. Not one of us has the knowledge of the evidence to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 No one said it makes them responsible.....but it absolutely does make them a contributory factor. At no point does Taylor or anyone else state that they were even a contributing factor either. You are just digging a hole for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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