Bud the Baker Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45616308 Quote Labour's leader and deputy leader say they would be ready to back another EU referendum - if party members want one. Leader Jeremy Corbyn told the Sunday Mirror he was not calling for a new vote but would "adhere to" any decision made at this week's party conference. And deputy leader Tom Watson, speaking to the Observer, said the view of party members must be respected. It comes as a poll for the newspaper suggests 86% of members want a vote on the outcome of Brexit negotiations. The party has never formally rejected the option of a further vote but both Mr Corbyn and Mr Watson have indicated they would prefer the issue to be resolved by a general election. It would be a face saving way to change policy and allow them to refute claims of opportunism. Assuming Labour could get the bulk of their MPs aside from the obvious dissenters like Field & Hoey to back the switch it would probably have majority support at Westminster and create mayhem for the PM & the Tory party . It's the smart move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 47 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45616308 It would be a face saving way to change policy and allow them to refute claims of opportunism. Assuming Labour could get the bulk of their MPs aside from the obvious dissenters like Field & Hoey to back the switch it would probably have majority support at Westminster and create mayhem for the PM & the Tory party . It's the smart move! But sadly, not a move Corbyn or his puppetmasters will be likely to make. They are ideologically opposed to the EU as it stands in the way of their belief that all major services and infrastrucutre should be state owned AND run. They are also quite keen on removing the free movement of people across borders within member states. What we will get will be a fudge, where members get to vote on a proposal that delivers hee-haw. Remember that although the membership want a second vote the delegates will be more likely to be Momentum members and affiliates. They will simply bloc-vote the second refferendum away. I do hope to be pleasantly surprised though. I've said it for years, the Corbynistas want the country to crash and burn so that they can walk into the wreckage and have free-rein to inflict a very fundamental version of socialism on the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 I don't think this matters much as I can't see any circumstances under which Labour can win a general election in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: But sadly, not a move Corbyn or his puppetmasters will be likely to make. They are ideologically opposed to the EU as it stands in the way of their belief that all major services and infrastrucutre should be state owned AND run. They are also quite keen on removing the free movement of people across borders within member states. What we will get will be a fudge, where members get to vote on a proposal that delivers hee-haw. Remember that although the membership want a second vote the delegates will be more likely to be Momentum members and affiliates. They will simply bloc-vote the second refferendum away. I do hope to be pleasantly surprised though. I've said it for years, the Corbynistas want the country to crash and burn so that they can walk into the wreckage and have free-rein to inflict a very fundamental version of socialism on the UK. Are you the Daily Mail in disguise? The current situation has been engineered by a Tory "pressure group" the ERG whose members are almost all supporters of the broader "Libertarian Agenda" and in a number of cases pretty wacky indeed. I don't share your opinion on Momentum as being a re-incarnation of Militant, nor do many others who remember the 80s - its a genuine grassroots organization that aims to increase activism & membership rather than simply being "entryist" . In general terms the "left" has been slow to tackle globalization and if by "very fundamental version of socialism" you mean renationalization of essential services and a fair and progressive system of taxation wit no loopholes then I say bring it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 as a left-leaning nationalist sympathiser, I'm not the daily mail (though I might be someone's "daily male"). I never mentioned militant, but the evidence is there of intolerence of anyone not fully signing up to the radical agenda. and the anti-semitism and bullying? That's the problem with all political parties, including labour, they see their flaws as virtues. Lets just wait and see what the conference is allowed to vote on and what the actual result is in the event it is a meaningful vote on a second referendum. As i said, my hopes are high and my expectations limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) There you go, Len McLuskey has decided that that any second referdum must NOT offer the option of staying in. So it matters little what members of either Unite or labour want, Len has made up his mind on how his bloc will vote. Labour is intent on delivering Brexit and Len has fixed the voting parameters to ensure JC doesn't have to consider the u-turn. Hopes & expectations. Edited September 23, 2018 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 56 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: if by "very fundamental version of socialism" you mean renationalization of essential services and a fair and progressive system of taxation wit no loopholes then I say bring it on! Then you also say bring on the UK's exit from the EU, because the people who will deliver that for you want us out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: Then you also say bring on the UK's exit from the EU, because the people who will deliver that for you want us out! Labour have a chance to get off the Brexit bus (back seat driver - Jacob Rees-Mogg) you may well be correct that they won't be able to do it but nothing is settled yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 the vote will only commit labour to a people's vote IF they fail to get a general election. if the election happens and the tories win-no change if the election happens and labour win-no change Whoever wins will execute Brexit and the only vote the people will have will be "deal or no deal", what a prospect THAT is. As I said, the feelings of the party don't matter to the idealogues in the myriad of committees, the bloc vote still rules and the people will get a Hobson's choice. Chance missed alright and I feel a wee bit sick about our children's future. Thank you Labour, in your one opportunity to make things right over the last 10 years you chose to sit on your arses, let chaos reign and rub your hands with glee at the thought of a broken Britain as a blank canvas for your ideaology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 17 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: Labour have a chance to get off the Brexit bus (back seat driver - Jacob Rees-Mogg) you may well be correct that they won't be able to do it but nothing is settled yet. I never said Labour won't be able to do it-that seems like you are getting your excuses for failure in early. They CAN do it if they push the RIGHT vote or win an election. They won't though. It really is all settled already. An yet, some Labour mouthpiece will likely come forward with the "when they came for my neighbour, I did nothing" speech at some point this week. The Brexit loonies are coming for US and you do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, beyond our ken said: I never said Labour won't be able to do it-that seems like you are getting your excuses for failure in early. They CAN do it if they push the RIGHT vote or win an election. They won't though. It really is all settled already. An yet, some Labour mouthpiece will likely come forward with the "when they came for my neighbour, I did nothing" speech at some point this week. The Brexit loonies are coming for US and you do nothing. I never said they would - look at the thread title it's a question. There's certainly a movement in that direction, although I note John McDonnell has just said Remain would not be an option in a "people's vote" so you're probably correct in your opinion that no meaningful motion will be passed. It would've been the smart move however Labour are obviously trying to equal the Tories in terms of bottling the battle with their own gammons and incompetence. Edited September 24, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 Labour actually have a chance to rediscover themselves here, but as per they are as divided, if not more so, than the Tories. By putting out a public vote on a 2nd Ref they would automatically gain support over losing support. I am not expecting any u turn though, as Lab internally fights from Centre to soft Left................... Very concerned that yet again, we dont actually have an oppostition .................. and the Tories as messed up as they are will once again only challenge themselves No deal on its way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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