The Politics Thread

[salmonbuddie]

 

How f'kin dare you. That comment's so low, it's lower than his IQ.

 

 

You started so well when you made the world, now you're reduced to telling people you can get lower than StuD's IQ? What hope remains for us mere mortals?

 

[salmonbuddie]

I only designed Norway - I like fjords you see.

Aye, they work in Norway. Africa, though? What were you thinking?

[Bud the Baker]

Brexit plan 'in paralysis' with ministers set to delay EU withdrawal bill

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/18/brexit-strategy-in-paralysis-as-eu-withdrawal-bill-delayed

I don't normally like the hassle of having to format sweary words in a post but where the fuck are we headed under the present government?

 

PS - If you're confused it's Henry VIII!

Edited October 19, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[shull]

Question Time from Kilmarnock in 15 minutes.

Scottish people and Politics  

The Masses Are Asses 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Question Time from Kilmarnock in 15 minutes.
Scottish people and Politics  
The Masses Are Asses [emoji38]

You aren't even putting any effort in anymore

[shull]

34 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

You aren't even putting any effort in anymore

I wasn't going to watch it and give a running commentary. 

Seen it all before. 

[Bud the Baker]

Oil prices at a two year high - whodathunk that the cyclical nature of economics would continue?

Yet here we are three years on from the Independence Referendum with the naval shipbuilding orders which were guaranteed to Clydeside in the run-up to the Independence Referendum being fudged, DevoMax promises being ignored and Westminster seeking to take back powers that should be devolved back to Scotland post-Brexit - whodathunk any of that could happen either?

It's an unequal Union, and has been since Thatcher's government ditched One Nation Toryism for Monetarism and declared Society a thing of the past.

The whole No campaign was based on the idea that we were an economic basket case and that we would be better off clinging to LondonLand (and the EU  ) - as Johnny Rotten said......

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Oil prices at a two year high - whodathunk that the cyclical nature of economics would continue?
Yet here we are three years on from the Independence Referendum with the naval shipbuilding orders which were guaranteed to Clydeside in the run-up to the Independence Referendum being fudged, DevoMax promises being ignored and Westminster seeking to take back powers that should be devolved back to Scotland post-Brexit - whodathunk any of that could happen either?
It's an unequal Union, and has been since Thatcher's government ditched One Nation Toryism for Monetarism and declared Society a thing of the past.
The whole No campaign was based on the idea that we were an economic basket case and that we would be better off clinging to LondonLand (and the EU  ) - as Johnny Rotten said......
 

Aye, but there's a new iPhone out and x factor is on

[Guest TPAFKATS]

You evil bastard!

And then a new wean for the royals...

[Bud the Baker]

Just finished watching Pt. 2 of The Super Rich and Us on BBC2 - Fascinating!

Episode 1

The Super-Rich and Us Episode 1 of 2

Britain has more billionaires per head than any other country on earth, yet we're also the most unequal nation in Europe. We were told the super-rich would make us richer too, so why hasn't that happened, and what does the arrival of their astronomical wealth really mean for the rest of us?

In programme one of this two-part series, Jacques Peretti looks at how the super-rich first exploited an obscure legal loophole to make Britain one of the most attractive tax havens on earth. He argues this was no accident. Wooing the super-rich was a deliberate strategy by government to reconfigure the British economy, under the belief their wealth would trickle down to the rest of us. But it didn't. The OECD now say the British economy would have been 20 per cent bigger had we not pursued the super-rich. So who sold us the fallacy and why?

Episode 2

The Super-Rich and Us Episode 2 of 2

Britain has more billionaires per head than anywhere else, yet we're also the most unequal nation in Europe. In this two-part series, Jacques Peretti investigates how the super-rich are transforming Britain.

In episode two, Jacques investigates how inequality was pinpointed as a business opportunity before the crash by the biggest bank in America, as a way of making money from a more divided society. Jacques also looks at how our work life was made deliberately more unstable in the 70s to drive a new 80s profit culture, and how an acceptance of huge executive bonuses was manufactured.

Jacques meets the billionaires who have gained, those that are fearful for the society being created, and the people whose decisions are changing the very way we live.

[Bud the Baker]

Surely knot

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/875537/ruth-davidson-theresa-may-Nicholas-Soames-prime-minister-leadership-bid-tory-sussex-mp

Lifted from the article

Quote

 

Elizabeth Blackshaw, 85, who attended the dinner, said the 300-strong crowd gave Ms Davidson a very warm reception. 

The great-grandmother, whose late husband Bill was the former headmaster of Brighton College, said: “She bounced up on to the stage and spoke very well. 

"She talked about how Nicola Sturgeon had seemed unstoppable in Scotland and how, with a lot of hard work, she had managed to reverse her fortunes.  

Quality megalomania - how will we get by without her!

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Surely knot
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/875537/ruth-davidson-theresa-may-Nicholas-Soames-prime-minister-leadership-bid-tory-sussex-mp
Lifted from the article [emoji38]

 
Elizabeth Blackshaw, 85, who attended the dinner, said the 300-strong crowd gave Ms Davidson a very warm reception. 
The great-grandmother, whose late husband Bill was the former headmaster of Brighton College, said: “She bounced up on to the stage and spoke very well. 
"She talked about how Nicola Sturgeon had seemed unstoppable in Scotland and how, with a lot of hard work, she had managed to reverse her fortunes.  

Quality megalomania - how will we get by without her!

Hahaha, yeah Ruth reversed Nicola's fortunes by keeping snp as largest party and Nicola as first minister.

[oaksoft]

On 11/4/2017 at 4:27 AM, Bud the Baker said:

Oil prices at a two year high - whodathunk that the cyclical nature of economics would continue?

Yet here we are three years on from the Independence Referendum with the naval shipbuilding orders which were guaranteed to Clydeside in the run-up to the Independence Referendum being fudged, DevoMax promises being ignored and Westminster seeking to take back powers that should be devolved back to Scotland post-Brexit - whodathunk any of that could happen either?

It's an unequal Union, and has been since Thatcher's government ditched One Nation Toryism for Monetarism and declared Society a thing of the past.

The whole No campaign was based on the idea that we were an economic basket case and that we would be better off clinging to LondonLand (and the EU  ) - as Johnny Rotten said......

 

The problem is that we fought this battle 3 years ago and lost the argument.

Not enough people care about this now. The political landscape has moved for the forseeable future and those wanting to pursue another independence referendum are going to have to find another drum to beat because this sort of whining is just tedious. Nobody is listening.

The problem is that even hardcore Yes voters like me have now switched off. The moment has gone and I now can't see it being resurrected for at least another 15 to 20 years. We had our moment.

[oaksoft]

On 11/4/2017 at 1:23 PM, TPAFKATS said:

Aye, but there's a new iPhone out and x factor is on

 

On 11/4/2017 at 8:57 PM, TPAFKATS said:

And then a new wean for the royals...

Genuine question.

Who are you hoping to persuade to vote Yes with comments like this?

Or is it just a way of letting off steam?

I am genuinely swithering on voting No next time because I have lost confidence in the country to run itself properly at the moment. I think we need a more positive cultural change of attitude towards getting out to work and building a new country and we need a less entitled attitude towards welfare. I'd be more tempted to vote Yes again if I see evidence of an increase in support for small business startups and a huge increase in ambition from people both at a personal level and at national level. We used to rule the world in terms of invention and I want to see us have an ambition to get going again. Where is the attempt to create the Scottish equivalent of Microsoft, Google etc?

None of that has anything to do with the Royal family and it's ridiculous to think that even a majority of No voters voted with that in mind.

Edited November 7, 2017 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

9 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Politics is mainly about spin so she is perfectly entitled to claim anything at all.  We, on the other hand, are all perfectly entitled to point and laugh at her for thinking that anybody will actually believe that.

You may not be laughing in 2020 or whenever the next Holyrood vote is.

Especially if independence is still on the table.

I reckon we are seeing the SNP at almost exactly the same point as Labour were in 2004.

We are seeing a lot of the same entitled behaviour, the defensiveness, the drying up of ideas and the negativity.

If something isn't done about it my vote will be going elsewhere for the first time in almost 20 years and I probably won't be alone.

I was an absolute bawhair away from voting Tory in the GE but I couldn't get over my reservations of the Westminster Tories.

Voting for the Scottish Conservatives under Davidson however is a different kettle of fish altogether and I'd have no issues voting her party in at Holyrood.

It'll be a close decision again for me depending on what happens in the next few years.

Tax is becoming the red line for me. I cannot believe we are unable to find someone competent enough to properly cut out the waste in all government departments.

Edited November 7, 2017 by oaksoft

[Bud the Baker]

10 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that we fought this battle 3 years ago and lost the argument.

Not enough people care about this now. The political landscape has moved for the forseeable future and those wanting to pursue another independence referendum are going to have to find another drum to beat because this sort of whining is just tedious. Nobody is listening.

The problem is that even hardcore Yes voters like me have now switched off. The moment has gone and I now can't see it being resurrected for at least another 15 to 20 years. We had our moment.

We didn't lose the argument, we lost a vote. Where else is the "lose one vote and give up" argument applied in politics?

Remoaners from all the unionist political parties are arguing for a second Euro referendum while simultaneously saying that a second Independence one is wrong.

We don't know what the future holds and how the country will be once we have left the EU - you might be right about there not being the momentum for a second Indyref now or in the immediate future but that doesn't mean we should give up the argument especially when what much of the "No" campaign said back then is in tatters.

10 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You may not be laughing in 2020 or whenever the next Holyrood vote is.

Especially if independence is still on the table.

I reckon we are seeing the SNP at almost exactly the same point as Labour were in 2004.

We are seeing a lot of the same entitled behaviour, the defensiveness, the drying up of ideas and the negativity.

If something isn't done about it my vote will be going elsewhere for the first time in almost 20 years and I probably won't be alone.

I was an absolute bawhair away from voting Tory in the GE but I couldn't get over my reservations of the Westminster Tories.

Voting for the Scottish Conservatives under Davidson however is a different kettle of fish altogether and I'd have no issues voting her party in at Holyrood.

It'll be a close decision again for me depending on what happens in the next few years.

Tax is becoming the red line for me. I cannot believe we are unable to find someone competent enough to properly cut out the waste in all government departments.

I suppose it all be so much easier for you when Oor Ruthie leaves for her safe Suffolk seat!

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

We didn't lose the argument, we lost a vote. Where else is the "lose one vote and give up" argument applied in politics?

Remoaners from all the unionist political parties are arguing for a second Euro referendum while simultaneously saying that a second Independence one is wrong.

We don't know what the future holds and how the country will be once we have left the EU - you might be right about there not being the momentum for a second Indyref now or in the immediate future but that doesn't mean we should give up the argument especially when what much of the "No" campaign said back then is in tatters.

I suppose it all be so much easier for you when Oor 

You can play at semantics if it makes you feel better but the truth is that the arguments you are currently using were used in the last referendum and people didnt vote for it. You need to find a new approach if you want to persuade people to vote Yes next time.

At no point did I say you should give up.

Oh and "remoaners"? Cringe.

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Voting Tory for Holyrood has the same implications as voting for them in a GE.  Same goes for Labour and the LibDems.  They are parties that are run from down south and their policies all reflect that.  When there was a Labour/LibDem coalition at Holyrood they did nothing of note (as far as i can remember) that was "against" the policies of their London masters.

I think Davidson's towing the line when it came to the pact with the DUP (with their well publicised views on homosexuality) and her squirming around the issue of the "rape clause" showed that she is willing to just do as she is told by her London overlords and that putting "Scottish" at the start of your party name doesn't necessarily mean anything at all.

Of course, a similar thing could be said about the SNP MPs at Westminster who work to the policies set out in Scotland but, being a selfish bastard, I would prefer policies to be set that benefit my area and not to benefit some other area to the detriment of my area.  It would, of course, be better if the benefits were spread about so that every area benefited to the same degree (or as close as possible) but we all know that isn't going to happen.

Unfortunately apart from the Tories, there isn't another party proposing to keep taxes low and to wean our nation out of its entitlement to state benefits,

[Bud the Baker]

7 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You can play at semantics if it makes you feel better but the truth is that the arguments you are currently using were used in the last referendum and people didnt vote for it. You need to find a new approach if you want to persuade people to vote Yes next time.

At no point did I say you should give up.

Oh and "remoaners"? Cringe.

The whole of your previous post screamed "give up" even if you didn't use those precise words. Your denial - that's semantics. 

45% of the electorate voted Yes IN 2014 so there is no need to completely change the message, even your heroine Ruth said that too much of the nations resources were channelled towards the South East. The SNP made a mistake in think the 62% who voted to Remain in the EU would automatically support an Independent Scotland within the EU, so yeah, the message/policies needs to be refined to make Scotland different from the rest of the UK and just to stick it up soft-Tories like yourself I hope that'll be by raising taxes to pay for health, education and provide affordable housing for everyone. The Greens will support it as will Scottish Labour and the LibDems and it'll effectively isolate the Scottish Conservatives. It'll also give us the chance to see how many people are willing to back their oft expressed principles by paying a few pounds extra a week.

The Union doesn't work for Scotland, hasn't since the Tories ditched One-Nationism under Thatcher, and likely never will again. Even the most successful leader the Scottish Tories have had in 30 years is clearly  thinking about jumping ship although how that will fare is pretty obvious.

PS - If you really want to cringe the best place to look is in your back content!

Edited November 7, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

The whole of your previous post screamed "give up" even if you didn't use those precise words. Your denial - that's semantics. 

So in other words, although I didnt actually say it, you'll accuse me of it anyway?

Exactly what I was having a go at you about in the first place. 

[Bud the Baker]

18 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The problem is that we fought this battle 3 years ago and lost the argument.

Not enough people care about this now. The political landscape has moved for the forseeable future and those wanting to pursue another independence referendum are going to have to find another drum to beat because this sort of whining is just tedious. Nobody is listening.

The problem is that even hardcore Yes voters like me have now switched off. The moment has gone and I now can't see it being resurrected for at least another 15 to 20 years. We had our moment.

The message of the above post is "give up" - wriggle away.

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

The message of the above post is "give up" - wriggle away.

You missed the bit about finding another drum to beat.

Is that because you like to indulge in confirmation bias?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Genuine question.
Who are you hoping to persuade to vote Yes with comments like this?
Or is it just a way of letting off steam?
I am genuinely swithering on voting No next time because I have lost confidence in the country to run itself properly at the moment. I think we need a more positive cultural change of attitude towards getting out to work and building a new country and we need a less entitled attitude towards welfare. I'd be more tempted to vote Yes again if I see evidence of an increase in support for small business startups and a huge increase in ambition from people both at a personal level and at national level. We used to rule the world in terms of invention and I want to see us have an ambition to get going again. Where is the attempt to create the Scottish equivalent of Microsoft, Google etc?
None of that has anything to do with the Royal family and it's ridiculous to think that even a majority of No voters voted with that in mind.

I wasn't trying to persuade anyone to vote yes with that post.
I don't think you're half as clever as you think you are [emoji6]

Thanks for asking though, questions and debate are always good - especially on a football forum [emoji23]

[salmonbuddie]

I wasn't trying to persuade anyone to vote yes with that post.
I don't think you're half as clever as you think you are [emoji6]

Thanks for asking though, questions and debate are always good - especially on a football forum [emoji23]

I don't think Stephen Hawking's half as clever as oaky thinks oaky is...

[FTOF]

Just now, salmonbuddie said:

I don't think Stephen Hawking's half as clever as oaky thinks oaky is...

I don't think I've ever thought he was clever.

There were many far more apt adjectives that came to mind to describe him.