ktf

There's no doubt that the CiC could work. But the funders are having the same issue as a number of people. The asking price for a mere 52% shareholding is far too high.
I have heard it suggested, but admittedly not supported with fact,that the consortium could recoup their entire investment (remember much of it was inherited) for an asking price of around £1.2 million and that would still provide a reward for the effort they put in. I dont begrudge them that as long as their demands are realistic and they dont stifle the future prospects
I'm afraid the options are the lowering of the asking price, which could attract counter bids, or the status quo.
It seems the club could well prosper under the current arrangements if we continue with the current good financial management (if indeed the board are sticking to that) and the further development of youth prospects.

All this CIC shite is hardly helping.Put your own money in Richard or f**k off.

Ah, all this time I thought Bluto and Sid were just taking the p*ss and being the Class Clowns...silly me.
Shrek? I thought he'd support C*lt*c given his colour.
So what is your "mantra" or "prerogative"? Bluto's Fan Club Secretary?

Hhmmm...Once again I see no evidence of me using the words "fees" or "passed hands"...strange that you can see that I've used these words, eh Bluto?

So you'll agree with Sid and his numerous aliases and recommend that everyone else does too , just cos it suits your agenda ?
Aye very good !

They haven't been in the First Division since 1985 which is why he probably reckons it won't work there.

That post has got c"ntcillor written all over it. Blatant self promotion of your business, a sudden change in direction from "I work well with REA" to 36 years of being a fan - but falls short of explaining how you intend to "understand" the likes and dislikes of supporters.....anyone expressing concern that you disagreed with has been met with hostility by you to date. That is more the behaviour you would expect from c"ntcillor Sharkey than from a fellow Saints fan you would trust to represent you on the BoD. "I have other ideaas" - will spill them then, why the secret squirrel act? If you have great ideas get them posted and you might just find that with other our support you can acheive them any way.
Your post has sausage roll thieving c"ntcillor written all over it.
Being the fans representative on the BoD means that you must actually be representative of the fans views, desires, concerns and hopes for the clubs. Your post smacks of your own personal dreams for the club. I reckon you would be as bad a representative as StuDick.
Back when the club was being shat down the toilet we had one dodgy Chairman after another backed by a just as shady group of hingers on. We had useless jokers trying to build hooses in Cairters Corner for themselves, the pilfering of our crown jewels that led to the eventual sale of Love Street. We don't need similar shady characters now.
The guys that proven their credentials are guys like Wullie Bell or John White, or Jim (can never remember his surname)....they have made their mistakes like the dressing gowns and learnt from them. They should have at least one fans representative place, and I am sure they will. What would also be helpful is someone representing fans interest that has significant experience in running the club and has proven their credentials as a club guardian - I would be looking at someone from the current BoD - preferably SG who has developed into one of the leading lights of Scottish football over the last 10+ years. I also think McAusland would be good.
Martin Carr would also be excellent; however there may be a conflict of interest there. I would also be very happy to see Alan Provan represent us.
The fans representative should have absolutely f"k aw to do with how well anyone gets on with REA. The fans representation should be about checks and balances ensuring that fans hopes and desires for the club are represented.
I would also be very concerned that anyone with an online alias in an unofficial fans forum had anything to do with the running of the club. By all means they can utilise the forum to foster discussion; however they need to do it in a Hungry Hippo style rather than an attack on fellow supporters for having a different view from them.
I want serious, capable fans representation on the BoD that will challenge the CIC Board and the SMFC Board. They should have one single goal and that is to represent the interests of the supporters - not just CIC members. What I don't want is some wegiescumbagland based YUPPY hanging out of REA's ass to try and achieve a personal fantasy.
Now, getting back to the point - we have yet to see any detail on the form of the elections. And I am not looking for yet another vague answer from TsuMirren. As yet no detail has been passed to us. Are we looking at a plc style election - where REA decides who will be put up for office and we get to say yay or nay? If so then I fear the worst for us? Are we going to see an open election, where each candidate will require a certain level of nominations / support prior to entering the election? Will it be a first past the post effort - with the candidates with the most votes taking the general member BoD posts? If it is first past the post, will there be an opportunity for us to vote for more than one candidate as I am sure there will be more than one nominee that I would like to see on the BoD? Will there be named posts, and each candidate will be fighting specifically for that post?
The big question here though is who is setting the rules for the elections? Is it Scott and REA? Is it the social funders? Will it be us? The writing of the draft constitution would suggest that the general members are not involved. Will it be a case of - we need to do it this way to attract the funding?
I have long said that the risk in the CIC is going to be in the detail of the constitution. If the constitution is a document fully under the control of the external CIC proposers and the social funders then concerns that we have just handed our club over to people we barely know, who's intentions we barely know could be realised. Sorry not handed our club over to.....bought our club on behalf of.
The election process is a tiny element of the constitution. However, looking just at that you can see the potential pitfalls. We need to be seeing meetings were the detail is discussed openly. What I don't see is why we need to wait until after the takeover happens to start working on the constitution - if we are to get that chance at all?

Good summary from Dibble
Some other points;
798 people have pledged individual support for the CIC
Around 500 of those have returned completed direct debit forms
The 24 target for community members has been reached and surpassed
The corporate membership target is difficult to measure as some corporate organisations are looking to group together to take out joint/group membership. The CIC welcomes this approach but there are some concerns about ensuring voting rights remain fair among the corporate members so this is still being worked through.
There is a 22 page document which outlines the processes and procedures that will underpin the CIC and this document is currently being worked on and refined ready for launch.
The construction of the members bar area will begin as soon as the deal is completed. The design, costings, contractors etc are all in place and the experience of GLS in the project will be very valuable given his experience in the construction industry and the build of the stadium.
Complete aside, but the elimination of Celtic, Rangers and Hearts from Europe tonight will cost Saints "several thousand pounds" due to some sort of UEFA "solidarity fund" whatever that is
Some of the funding to complete the deal is sitting in a bank account but the CIC don't want to draw it down until the full £2m is in place.
There will be an interim football board appointed on completion of the deal who will steer the club through to the AGM which takes place in December. Those board members will be able to stand for election at that time if they so wish. The initial interim board will be made up of individuals within the CIC who it is felt have the best skills to deal with the early challenges. I'd expect GLS and Tony Fitz to both join that board but that part is just my opinion !
GLS will not be "representing the 48%" as such. He feels that divisions like 48% vs CIC are negative and that everyone should pull together and work together to take the club forward once the deal completes.
Deal "should" complete any time now, but after that it will be "around 6 weeks" before all the legal paperwork is completed, the shares change hands, and the CIC becomes the majority shareholder in the club.
The kit deal with JD is very financially rewarding for the club and whilst there have been teething problems (availability of socks etc) the general result of the kit and training kit deal with JD has been very good for the club. There was absolutely no fall out with Alan Provan.
The club retains the rights to the merchandising (ie all the other club related stuff) and is working on improving the club shop. This will merge with the ticket office to allow fans much more accessibility to buy Saints merchandise (and tickets !) as well as up-selling gear when people are in buying match tickets. It was accepted that the club shop could be better but the club is trialling ranges at the moment to work out what sells and does not want to tie up lots of cash in stock. All lines are on very short order lead times so stock will be replenished between home games.
The cash flow problems that have dogged the club in recent years have been worked on very hard over the last year and the current budget, which makes no provision at all for ANY cup cash or extra TV games, should mean there are no cash flow issues, but there is provision to cover any issue in future (through Maxi) if it were needed in an emergency situation.
I think they are the salient points I can remember !

An online alias demanding that named individuals answer their questions in a straightforward transparent manner; you cannae beat it!

That would have been marginally better had the e-mail cancelling the meeting not already been sent out.

Just a thought here for the CiC constitution - I propose that Stuart Dickson is banned for life just for being so f**king tedious and insulting to other members.

Never said which 4pm.

So time to name the sources of the tweets.
One of the most annoying things about politicians in the last 15 years has been the tendency to trail news more in hope than in expectation so that people think something is happenning when in fact excuses are being made
Do you think that 10000 hours are using the same tactics as the takeover juggernaut encounters some swampy terrain?

I can now confirm a 4pm press conference.

Dunno Bud...last time I caught up with REA was at the home strip launch and it was pretty much a "how's it going?" chat. There is no doubt in my mind that the CIC is going ahead so I don't feel the need to haunt him about it. Team is playing out of its skin. Wee Danny is looking like the managerial genius of this new era for Scottish football. All is tickety-boo at the club with lots of good stuff happening. Would be great if it all happens this week. It will happen when it happens and our already miraculous preformances and buzz about the place will pretty much go through the roof. If Guinness did football club takeovers. Plus miscreants like Bluto get to spin in the wind a wee while longer.

Enjoy The Silence

Of course, this all makes sense. As the hope that Yul/Animal and the others had of discrediting the CiC concept by criticising the business plan and process runs out, they switch to a REA-specific campaign of slander. Trying, on the way, to second guess the decisions of players like SMiSA and other partners/members, which has also proven to be an unsuccessful strategy as it their guesses have all been incorrect.
Once again though, having been unable to find any actual dirt on REA they instead make things up - just like the SMiSA/Kibble stories that had been touted and turned out to be false. The "Mag7ers" B&W Army's equivalent to the News Of The World, except worse.
Post after post based on hearsay, third-hand alleged information, poor research, fantasy, speculation and unfounded nonsense. Well done you guys for your well worked campaign, it has been so successful. You must be so proud.
I often wonder why political parties don't fight more of their campaigns on what they will do, how they are good and why you should vote for them. Instead they focus on why the others are shite, liars, incompetent and lead debaucherous lives. Kind of left wondering why these guys don't come straight out and say why the CiC is bad, offer a better solution and let us get on with the job of deciding.
Crawl back into your rancid little hovel and hatch another ill-constructed plan to bring the club and town to its knees, it'll be fun to watch you fail again.

It should be the Danny Lennon, Tommy Craig and Brian Caldwell Appreciation Thread. And REA deserves a mention for landing the deal that brought us Tesselaar.

REA ???

Richard stated at the meetings that the 48% would take one place on the club board. This has been mentioned elsewhere and I'm pretty sure I included it in my notes from both evenings also.
To say Richard hasn't mentioned needing the fans to be involved is like saying Ally McCoist has had a smooth handover from Walter Smith. I think you've confused Richard with a few people on here who've stated that fans should get involved, vote people in and then leave them to it.
"The ability to run the club as he pleases without any serious involvement of other shareholders or fans. thats why you've got so many boards "
????? Surely he'd have less boards then! You'd have a CIC board who would become the club board, everyone else would be kept at a distance. As the CIC grew it's asset list the club board would see one or two people come on board.
As it stands, It may be that in time the more business based members of the CIC, those who get their social returns and pay 10K, may want to have involvement in the elected members board yet prefer to have a smaller ratio on the club board. In the overall scheme of things, I wouldn't want the Saints fans to have full budgetary control from the off as we frankly don't understand the thing well enough.
"why does he want to distance the other 48% shareholders? Why on Earth would you decide to keep them at arms length?"
They already were/are to a certain degree. The ration of 52 to 48 means they're already working from a lesser base, something that was made tangible by the consortium and an operational fact prior to that if the controlling group didn't feel any need or want to listen to anyone else. Have the 48% put together a plan on how they would like to be involved?
"Can anyone tell me how offering ONE seat on A board (Not the executive board) is either democratic or in the interests of SMFC"
Oh, you had noticed that. Yet you stated Richard had no intent to bring them on board. Let's say it was 6 seats versus 7, let's say the constitution of the CIC made the 7 CIC board members duty bound to carry out the wishes of the CIC members as directed by a vote result. The 6 would have just as litte/much power as the 1 will have. I think the whole idea of the vehicle is that if you are part of the 48% and you actually want a real and powerful say in the running of the club then why buy however many shares it would take to bring you that when you can join the CIC and establish your credentials in the lead up to a board election.
I suppose it's democratic as to all intents and purposes the club board will have one over-riding voice and the 1 of the 48% will be the other voice. It's up to the 48% to organise themselves, which is perhaps the real issue as there's every chance the populous of the 48% will encounter the same issues as the CIC members with regards to communication.
"If he could have got the funding etc without having to have any individual members at all that is what he would have done. The individual members are i'm afraid to say just a window dressing/tick box exercise to get his hands on the necessary cash to control the club."
Read up on CIC's.
"the club badly needs to pay off a load of completely unnecessary debt"
T h e c l u b i s n o t i n d e b t!
The club is not in debt!
THE CLUB IS NOT IN DEBT!
"Do you think RA will lose any sleep when it all falls apart? "
Do you mean will he lose any sleep when the CIC have to sell, nobody wants to buy as the fans have shown they don't give a shit and his 10000 Hours CIC have all that debt to service? I think he will lose sleep, much like the shop owners who've lost businesses in Paisley due to the community deserting them for a big building called Braehead.

Shame you never took me up on the offer to review / edit your posts before you publish them.

Start with this "Maybe not everyone wants to meet with RA to discuss his idea to conduct a social experiment at!!! everyone bar his expense"
Why does anyone need to meet RA to disagree with what he proposes?
I've never met Hitler, Mussolini, Sadam Hussein or any past or present Morton Managers, but I know without meeting them that i do not share their ideals. same with RA, I believe his proposal and the back to front, confused, lack of progress that typifies it is wrong for SMFC.
The idea you promote that on an unofficial fans forum anyone who does like the look of 10000 hours or the Cic proposal should Quote:"pick a spokesperson who is able to lucidly post in a coherent manner the concerns that exist and allow these to be weighed up" is frankly laughable
It's a fan forum, not a session of the High Court!
I only quote these following words without comment, perhaps they would bear some reflection after you read the second quote???
"SO77 already mentioned that he is part of a wee Tile Bar Mafia that have worries, why not go and research (properly) your worries and post them up here in a sensible and meaningful way? Otherwise you will continue to get shot down every time some craply worded, craply thought-out and craply researched post goes up"
"pick a spokesperson who is able to lucidly post in a coherent manner the concerns that exist and allow these to be weighed up"
That said and posting in a "Lucid Styley" what about this company that RA has set up with SG et al???? Whats all that about?

to paraphrase your ill informed diatribe
"Social Experiment" = RA own words..... Go figure if you wish
"Changing Anyone's Opinion" = no interest to me whatsoever, however it seems mighty important to you
"Meet with RA" = happily in fact i'll buy him a ginger beer and recite psalm 69!!!
http://www.easyenglish.info/psalms/psalm069-taw.htm
If he changes his mind and agrees to stop this botched, stalled, drawn out, back to front attempt at taking over SMFC
And finally couldn't resist that big man-hole you dug with this:
Quote: "The people supporting the CIC know the difference between stadia card issues and the proposals of the CIC so that is a complete waste of energy and again damages the ultra-negative anti-CIC further alienating them from the knowledgable CIC investors. They are now viewed as a lunatic fringe"
What was that again that you suggested shareholders not yet signed up to the CiC should do????
aye lunatic fringe right enough
P.s. you should check your thoughts above??? even you aren't sure if the said meetings will happen.
See ya, sure as hell wouldnt wanna be ya

Of course, this all makes sense. As the hope that Yul/Animal and the others had of discrediting the CiC concept by criticising the business plan and process runs out, they switch to a REA-specific campaign of slander. Trying, on the way, to second guess the decisions of players like SMiSA and other partners/members, which has also proven to be an unsuccessful strategy as it their guesses have all been incorrect.
Once again though, having been unable to find any actual dirt on REA they instead make things up - just like the SMiSA/Kibble stories that had been touted and turned out to be false. The "Mag7ers" B&W Army's equivalent to the News Of The World, except worse.
Post after post based on hearsay, third-hand alleged information, poor research, fantasy, speculation and unfounded nonsense. Well done you guys for your well worked campaign, it has been so successful. You must be so proud.
I often wonder why political parties don't fight more of their campaigns on what they will do, how they are good and why you should vote for them. Instead they focus on why the others are shite, liars, incompetent and lead debaucherous lives. Kind of left wondering why these guys don't come straight out and say why the CiC is bad, offer a better solution and let us get on with the job of deciding.
Crawl back into your rancid little hovel and hatch another ill-constructed plan to bring the club and town to its knees, it'll be fun to watch you fail again.

Of course, this all makes sense. As the hope that Yul/Animal and the others had of discrediting the CiC concept by criticising the business plan and process runs out, they switch to a REA-specific campaign of slander. Trying, on the way, to second guess the decisions of players like SMiSA and other partners/members, which has also proven to be an unsuccessful strategy as it their guesses have all been incorrect.
Once again though, having been unable to find any actual dirt on REA they instead make things up - just like the SMiSA/Kibble stories that had been touted and turned out to be false. The "Mag7ers" B&W Army's equivalent to the News Of The World, except worse.
Post after post based on hearsay, third-hand alleged information, poor research, fantasy, speculation and unfounded nonsense. Well done you guys for your well worked campaign, it has been so successful. You must be so proud.
I often wonder why political parties don't fight more of their campaigns on what they will do, how they are good and why you should vote for them. Instead they focus on why the others are shite, liars, incompetent and lead debaucherous lives. Kind of left wondering why these guys don't come straight out and say why the CiC is bad, offer a better solution and let us get on with the job of deciding.
Crawl back into your rancid little hovel and hatch another ill-constructed plan to bring the club and town to its knees, it'll be fun to watch you fail again.