WeeBud

If Somner or you feel I am attacking anyone then I apologize.
That is certainly not my intention, i thought my above email was just answering the questions he posed.
I dont think I am being aggressive and I am certainly not using any vulgar or rude langauge, I am just trying to address Somners points and trying to get past what he is saying the "many" believe in order to deal with his own questions where we can actually know what "he" believes
Again Apologies if this is being seen as and attack and demeaning it is mearly a response to his line of questioning which is what the Forum is about
As I have said many times both publically, privately and indeed i think on this forum I have no problem, at all, if folk do not want to be involved my aim is to make sure that everyone has as much information and chance to have their questions answered so that they can make up their minds as an informed decision, rather than based or rumour, assumption or misinformation.
Nothing more than that

Afternoon.
Above has been explained at the meetings on the forums and if you check back you will see I even invited you, publically, to come and meet to discuss such matters as this if you search back on the forum.
To deal with your points in the one post.
We have the pricing to fit out the void. It is no where near the price you suggest. The money to do this comes from a number of the community partners.
In return the community partners get to use the void and the rest of the stadium on an ammortized basis, while the Club gets to use the void for its additional use.
As has been said many times if the CIC uses the void to earn money it gets to keep it.
If the Club uses the void to earn money it keeps it
And if it is ajoint effort then the money is split correctly.
Once the Cost of the fit out has been ammortized the CIC will then pay a full commercial rent to the Club for the space. This is a well established commercial procedure that a normal landlord may undertake when renting an unfurnished space to a tennent which the tennant then improves in exchange for an initial peppercorn rent.
All of this detail has been put out in various forms before do you feel it has now all been "disclosed"
As for the other points you make I am not sure I understand what you mean by "helluva lot more outgoings" if you could tell me what you mean I will comment

Plenty of good questions coming out which I will pass on to 10000Hours.
My question is, why don't people ask 10000Hours themselves about things they are concerned about ?

I don't think many people will take that offer up either. Not so much for the reason you cite, which I think is actually a very good point and respect for that position. I think they will add to their existing support of the club with either the monthly membership and a few will opt for the 87 club membership. Most will view it as a new share issue with additional benefits.
When we needed cash back when we were in trouble and we had the initial Q&A sessions set up by the eventual SMiSA guys one of the first questions asked when SG explianed the seriousness of the financial situation was "Can we buy shares?". The financial situation is different; however securing the long term future of the club is the prize for this investment. Fan ownership, community benefits, supporters bar, etc are all very welcome bonuses. Pretty sure for most fans the investment will be about safeguarding the future of the club. When Tony Fitzpatrick said similar tonight it was a room full of nodding heads.

It all seems pretty clear to me - the consortium's new selling price is £1.75M. Social funding will provide £1M and the deal will go ahead if the CIC can deliver the other £750k within 2 years from a combination of donations (SMiSA), the 87 club, monthly subscriptions and money generated by the void.
There obviously exists a protocol for dividing up the monies generated by the void between the community partners, the club and the CIC but I'm sure the details will have to remain cofidential.
I've always been a sceptic and will not be joining the CIC but I would like to express my thanks to div & 10000hours for taking the time to explain it all to me - you're a pair of gentlemen and I hope my reservations turn out to be unfounded and that the CIC is a success!

Kombi - To relate this back to the juvenile football club stuff that I do - we take regularly subs from the kids at £5 per week. It sounds a lot but by the time you take in the training pitch let at £80 per week, the match pitch let at £32 per fortnight, and the referee fees - me, and others within the club still have to dig deep into our own pockets to keep the club going. We could raise the subs but we know there are families out there who can't afford it, so instead we do regular newsletters asking for donations, run sponsored events, approach local businesses for help, badger supermarkets to let us do some bag packing in store and we run events like our Sportsmans Dinner and Summer Ball. This month we're back asking for more money for a "Hotshots" thing that Motherwell FC are helping us with and we've been asking for those who can to collect those Daily Record vouchers to help fund some kit. It's a thankless task for those involved and I'm sure that many times over we've been less than subtle when trying to rouse yet more support from the same people but the bottom line is that every penny of it going back into the club to give more than 300 kids a place to train and play football and every single one of them has a new home kit, an away kit, and a training kit all supplied by the club.
10000hours is slightly different. This isn't a bottomless pit. Once 10000hours is up and running properly it will start to generate income on top of the member subscriptions but right now they are where the kids football club are at in that they need more money. They've tried the recruitment drive and that's stalled. They tried grants and funding but they didn't get the full amount they needed. So of course the next natural step is to go back to those who have pledged to see if they would be willing to dig a bit deeper. The e-mail may well be clumsily worded but a wee read around this forum will show that REA isn't alone in being guilty of that.

So what you really want above all is somebody willing to come in and splash cash we don't have? And you're giving us lectures about how our football club should be run? Shame on us? Shame on you.

As a supporter and season ticket holder for 40 years I have been looking at all this with interest but have not commented before now.
Nothing in life provides future-proof guarantees. There are always uncertainties with anything whether thats a job, marriage or a CIC buyout. Ultimately you can only make decisions by studying the information you currently have, seek advice or opinion elsewhere but finally you have to trust your instinct and make a choice.
The good thing about any choice is that if it isn't the correct choice you can make another choice at a later date. Always.
After perusing the information and opinions placed before me, I like the whole idea of the CiC model. I like the fact that the ethos is more than just the football club but is also about people out there in the community. A community spirit is something which Western society has little of. Providing opportunities to those disadvantaged or those that require support or providing frameworks for new ventures is a great goal which should also bring many benefits to the club. My knowledge, to date, and instinct tell me to endorse it.
There are those who obviously have reservations (no pun intended, Yul). However they are making a mockery of this important debate by not addressing their reservations in an open and honest way so that issues can be addressed and dealt with. This sniping away in whispers from the corner does no-one any good and nullifies any serious points the snipers may have. If the snipers have valid points then lets hear them in an open and constructive way because at the moment they are just turning people off. And if their points are ultimately justifiable then THEY should be blamed for their childish behaviour with no 'I told you so' chest beating as they are NOT telling us coherently what these reservations are.
This situation reminds me of Ian Gray's performances against Alex Salmond every week where all he ever did was moan away in a quiet voice without ever offering valid points or suggesting solutions. It gets boring.
If the dissenters have something to say then say it and give us alternatives to consider or else shut up. You are helping no-one at the moment especially your own credibility. If you have valid points please make them sensibly so they can be discussed and answered by 10000hours and provide more information to the knowledge base for decision making. At the moment you are doing a dis-service to your fellow supporters.

That sounds like a winning idea. Tell you what if Stewart Gilmour doesn't take you up on it I've got a business idea that needs finance too. I'd quite like to get 800 mugs people pay £120 to help fund it for me, and I love the idea that they would also give me £20 worth of guaranteed business every year as well. And don't worry you'll all get the same opportunity to buy my products and services too just as you would the club bar. If I make a profit I promise I'll reinvest some of it in the business but as a proper shareholder I intend to retain the right to pay those profits to myself in the form of dividends if I feel like it.

No, not true. They conducted an initail 3 week trial which has now finished they are now consulting further with their members about a more permanent move
No.
No one is being forced to do anything.
Is it not perfectly understandable that a group of folk (the consortium) who have put as much blood, sweat and tears into St Mirren over the years would not of their own back decide to put some of the money back into enabling the community purchase of the club, in a way that they chose, whether that is Corporate Membership or some other way?
No. The architect drawings and building warrant are all in place to be started as soon as we can.
This is a forum for answering 10000hours questions, not REA questions.
It is true that this process has taken much longer than we and the consortium had hoped.
10000hours has not been working in a vacuum away from the consortium, both are working together on virtually a day to day basis. There were target dates some have been met some have not along the way, but all parties have been happy to continue and have understood the reasons for any delays. It is a totally transparent process behind the scenes between 10000hours CIC and the Consortium.
However if it was a "deadline" that had passed then the deal would now be "dead" it is very much alive.
Of course there is. If any of the parties involved did not have a significant degree of confidence in both the proposal and the ability of the team and the funding organisations to deliver the proposal then we would have stopped a long time ago. Remember lots of people are putting a lot of hard work and many hours into this for no financial return, for all of these people to be prepared to do this they have got to believe that not only is the deal possible but that it is good for the club and the community.
What is garanteed going through is the sale of the club.
We think the sale of the club to a community footing is both the best way to grow the club (and so improve the team) and to protect the clubs future from the "one man" owner.
So far at least 700 individuals agree with us and so we hope shortly to make this a reality.
We are not there yet but we are close and those who have pledged will be recieving some further info from us later today.
10000hours CIC

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and am not miffed in any way whatsoever by the CIC or it's proposals, in fact I have pledged membership as an individual. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things have changed from that point of view. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal, I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club and I'm sure that's true of many of the 900.

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and am not miffed in any way whatsoever by the CIC or it's proposals, in fact I have pledged membership as an individual. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things have changed from that point of view. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal, I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club and I'm sure that's true of many of the 900.

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and am not miffed in any way whatsoever by the CIC or it's proposals, in fact I have pledged membership as an individual. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things have changed from that point of view. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal, I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club and I'm sure that's true of many of the 900.

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and although I have severe doubts about the CiC and whether it can deliver its promises I accept they have got the required community support to give it a go and wish them all the best. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things will change. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal as I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club.

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and am not miffed in any way whatsoever by the CIC or it's proposals, in fact I have pledged membership as an individual. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things have changed from that point of view. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal, I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club and I'm sure that's true of many of the 900.

I am a shareholder (a very modest shareholding) and am not miffed in any way whatsoever by the CIC or it's proposals, in fact I have pledged membership as an individual. My shareholding never gave me a true say in the running of the club with decisions always been taken at board level and in that respect I don't see that things have changed from that point of view. I am still happy to have my shares and carry on as normal, I didn't purchase them to have a say in running the club and I'm sure that's true of many of the 900.