beyond our ken

Signings have been a problem-we've had more than our fair share of bad ones, but whose fault has that been? i find it hard to believe that the managers who got us Thomson, Teale, Dummet, Newton, Concalves et al have suddenly lost their ability to spot a prospect. There has to be more to it. just as a good player doesnt go bad overnight a good manager and coach doesnt lose their grip in a few weeks. What would be interesting to know is, what is the club's signing policy? presumably (maybe a big assumption) they have tiers of salaries that are available to the manager each year. for the last few years, Goodwin, Thomson and Teale have probably been the top earners and all were on the tail end of their useful life. this means that it was very likely that the players we could sign were all middle or lower tier salary targets, the available pool of which will always be made up of Journeymen under acheivers who have something to prove and are therefore (possibly) worth a gamble players on the down-slope who can add a bit of experience and sparkle kids unknown quantities from abroad & the lower leagues All of whom represent an unquantifiable gamble. If this is the case, as i suspect but cant prove that it is, then even Craig gets cut a wee bit of slack. Given the way Newton and Dummet played it was worth taking a risk on Adam Campbell and the MC kids. problem is that our safety net of talented old-timers no longer have the legs to cover their mistakes and bring them on, young players under pressure can go off very quickly. I would quite easily believe that if GT went to the board and said he could move on 2 players taking £45k a year each and asked to bring 3 x 30K players in to spread his bet then the board would say "we'll have that 90k, but just pick your best hunch and sign one of the bargain boys". As i said before, we need a proper review, as business men should be able to do for themselves, of all of the decisions that have been made. I'll thow a contentious one into the ring, has the money pumped into the Ralston complex been the best use of our resource? When you look at the likes of hearts and Hibs, ploughing capital into off-site training and academy facilities has been part of their downfall and it could be argued that that money might have been better spent on a couple of real up & comers every couple of years, or maybe on decent corporate facilities that took advantage of our strategic off-airport location and then supplied a St Johnstone style flow of funds that support good signings and youth development. When you look at it, how much have we recouped in transfer fees from the Ralston outlay? It has helped make us so potless that we end up seriously underselling our pre-academy talent just to make ends meet (everybody else knows this and takes full advantage). You have to embrace risk as the return on a safe bet is usually negligible. Unfortunately, our prudent model has almost certainly contributed to our downfall. The only saving grace is that our assets are useless as anything other than football infrastructure and will be unlikely to be stripped off, one key reason why there is no credible bid in 5 years could be that there is nothing to secure an investment against. What looked like a shiny new future 5 years ago quickly turned into disappointment as the support were intorduced to the new stadium and people said then that this could be the death of the club as we knew it. We are now a husk of that shiny wee dream.

as opposed to yourself, a person who is dying in his trollies

#recipefordisaster #charterforamateurstogrababoardplacewhensomeoneelsefootsthebill or #whywouldaprofessionalbusinessmangivetimeheshouldbespendingonhisownaffairsunlesstherewassomethingelseinitforhim?

there are no options to the status quo Best scenario would be that the board hand over day to day control to someone else Fan's best involvement would be to raise capital to invest in revenue-generating facilities I can't think of a single"fan" (or "customer") that i would want to see within 100 miles of the boardroom

Conversely, would the value of SMFC share rocket if we were a championship club who had just secured promotion? Serious question because they didn't increase in value before. it's not as if we saw a profit from any of the last 9 years and relegation will mean losses are curbed or avoided by some serious axe-swinging. Only factors affecting price are the ability to afford and the willingness to pay and share values will rise and fall based upon those two factors- nothing else

Fan ownership is a lame idea

as there is no money to pay people off then you are right-it won't happen. So why the griping.

Nobody saying he is making a good job of things or that he is not partly to blame, what I am saying (though it should have been plain just from reading my post but I'll make it clear for those struggling with it) is that just getting rid only serves the purpose of punishment at some point, a manager will be appointed by St Mirren who makes a few mistakes, gets time to learn from them and grows some success at the club as a result. Until that time we will continue to surge up and down the leagues on an erratic basis Suddenly, there is a rule that says having friends is a bad thing. i don't think Brian Caldwell is the problem at the club. And I'm not sure that making those decisions is anywhere near his remit anyway. i know some of the people you associate with have a problem with Brian, but that is based on their petty gripes about not getting Brian to do their beck and call. The guy is focussed on the bigger picture at the club The risk we face is that constantly firing off scattershots at those working at the club will probaby move those people on, but they will be replaced with lesser indiviuals or people who have it ALL to learn. That really will be dark days. What we need is some leadership and an open, honest review of the last 5 years so that people can pick out the lessons to be learned and get us back on track with a plan.

so get rid, but not necessarily replace? are you only interested in punishing him? Remember he took on a thankless task, probably knowing his old job could be on the line if he refused. He gave it his best shot knowing that if he wasnt ready he could be risking his future reputation and career as a coach? OK, it didn't work out, but advocating he be made an example of is pretty poor form

pish thread from a chronic attention seeking poster. Nobody talking to him so he gets people talking about him sad as feck

win all of our remaining fixtures and we will get to the play off. it would put enough pressure on the rest to force some mistakes but sadly, I dont think we can do that.

he seems like a very unplesant drunk, but this is not much change from his presumably sober postings

Really? Your cup winning, highest league place securing former manager is a failed one, accoring to English (who is a tit)

This link isn't working for me

Could it be that the "guarantee" you speak of would be a wee carrot the board are dangling out there to see if the support will set up a hearts-style fund that can be commuted to share ownership over time? there could be some mileage in this, especially if there was indication of how many persons would put in an up-front payment of £100-£1000, it could be that a few hundred fans have the wherewithall to do this. they could then rest on that sum or take out a fresh monthly payment to secure a second batch of rights/shares/votes/whatever-or maybe they could have their larger up-front payment rebated as the rest of the support make their monthly payments. The guaranteed amount to the consortium could reflect the price they are willing to accept (the higher the price, the lower the guarantee and vice versa). The less palatable part would be that those paying monthly would need to be locked in as legally liable to pay their agreed amount to avoid shafting of the up-front payers so that equal rights are secured for all regardless of how they pay. If 100 people can afford £1000 up front, and a further 500 can afford £100 or more then the first £150k is in the bag, if there are still community clubs loans (or whatever they are) to take advantage of then there might be a deal there

Mis-read your post on the bus, using my phone but not my specs! i thought you were implying that 10kh failed partly due to the fans not fronting up reading from solid ground and with occular aids in place I can see my howler (that is not a pet name for anything)

Better? Young?? Cheesy???

I wouldn't be asking for one and a half mill for a middle terrace in Glenburn The holding is worth whatever people are prepare to offer, not what the current board would like. They had the chance to pass up their option on the holding, but decided that they could take it and maybe make a few bob from it. Should the club now suffer just because they want ferrari money for a fiesta Someone once told me "beware anyone who puts a penny in the juke box and expects a nickel tune-everyone will be disappointed"

first bit in bold-they were never able to deliver the community finance required, so please don't muddy the water. That initiative failed either because of an incorrectly developed proposal or because hidden red tape had the whole thing damned from the start. Second bit in bold-bloody hell i hope not ! looking at some of the recent protagonists for SMISA on here and other media i would give up on the club completely if they got into some sort of official position.

2 years ago I was told by someone who needed to see the board regularly as part of his job that Gilmour came in maybe once a month, McAusland once a week (probably to pick the defence) and the rest of the board not at all.

of course we didn't! United re-structured their debt, Dundee, hearts and others simply walked away from it and carry on with the valuable asset of their original stadium to rely on. But we had to sell up? i'm not even sure that the Tesco deal was the best we could acheive. They never intended to put a supermarket on Love St (which would be a mental place to try and put retail on) they could have leased back the land to us and refurbished the main stand and the north bank for less than the cost of the current indistrial unit we occupy. But no, we had to go to a commercial area and blend in with the electrical contractors, floor layers, tool hirers (no pun intended, but it's there anyway), etc of Greehill Rd.

Would you get in that Taxi? i definitely wouldn't

Sorry, this is not the beginning of the spiral and it is certainly not the end of it. There are several people on our board who are credited with "saving" the club and who have been praised endlessly for their work which surely saw us avoid an administration event. Since then various people in our support have crowed about teams like Dundee, Hearts and Dunfermline going through administration, but look at this St Mirren have constantly re-defined the law of diminshing returns over the last few years. We cut to save money, which leads to a reduction in resources, which leads to a reduction in quality, which leads to a reduction in success, which leads to a cut in revenue, which leads to a need to cut further, etc. We sold off the old ground that had an intrinsic value to move to a new facility that is uninspiring we invest in a youth academy that fails to produce a return on the investment due to leases, planning constraints and other issues, these so-called assets are actually worthless as no money can be made from them the kitty is now empty, after only 5 years since our re-birth we have to sell our only good player so that we can pay wages So is administration next, or will we cut so far again that the club is confined to the lower leagues for years, probably? and these guys want £1.5 million for a shareholding that they largely inherited? Sorry, people, we've been had!

True

so the romans conquered britain, france, germany and all the other countries because of the jews that were there?