Club Sale. Developments "very Soon"

[bud77]

It is not an article - it is a tweet, but more of a twat:

Obviously not a detailed analysis as he has managed to get all his facts wrong. One day someone will actually come up with a half decent revelation.

Going by that tweet and other's comments, I'd say what he means is if the fans think their money is going directly to the club they're wrong and it won't greatly increase the playing budget. In the words of Homer Simpson Doh ! The club already run to a break even budget, it's most of our competitors who need restructuring to be long term viable otherwise a few will end up like bankrupt FC of Govan.

[Stuart Dickson]

Your post is fairenough Sid and like I said it was only a concern (the first) I have had about a cic. There is still a problem with cash flow at the club and the cup/tv money made life easier for payments to be made (some were late). The BOD have used their own accounts on many occasions to manage cash flow. My question is........When similar problems arise which they will where do we get the money?

Reborn, you know that 10000hours won't just be about St Mirren - don't you? There will be revenue streams generated from other projects within the group

[reborn saint]

Reborn, you know that 10000hours won't just be about St Mirren - don't you? There will be revenue streams generated from other projects within the group

lol....Stuart do you not remember I'm the naive guy(your words) who said when we get a cic....Renfrewshire will be united in flocking to our stadium. We will have a facility which will generate a serious income with events and sign £4000 per week players for the first time. Our value in the community will see great results in tackling obesity,alzeimer's and the rest. The funding will pour in helping both the club and the community which will see us win the Champions league! (well maybe not the last bit) but I was very possitive.

[Stuart Dickson]

lol....Stuart do you not remember I'm the naive guy(your words) who said when we get a cic....Renfrewshire will be united in flocking to our stadium. We will have a facility which will generate a serious income with events and sign £4000 per week players for the first time. Our value in the community will see great results in tackling obesity,alzeimer's and the rest. The funding will pour in helping both the club and the community which will see us win the Champions league! (well maybe not the last bit) but I was very possitive.

Ok - so what's the problem then

I'm not quite as over the top as you - but you only need to have a wee glance at Spartans to see where revenue streams could be generated, bringing money into the CIC which will then be re-invested. If it's operated properly it should be like any other successful business where it is running with sufficient cash to cover short term cash flow issues - although I would still maintain that if SMFC is being properly run there shouldn't be cash flow issues at all.

[reborn saint]

Ok - so what's the problem then

I'm not quite as over the top as you - but you only need to have a wee glance at Spartans to see where revenue streams could be generated, bringing money into the CIC which will then be re-invested. If it's operated properly it should be like any other successful business where it is running with sufficient cash to cover short term cash flow issues - although I would still maintain that if SMFC is being properly run there shouldn't be cash flow issues at all.

Most successful buisinesses need an overdraft facility. Spartans don't require £2million to keep the lights on then pay for an SPL football team. The BOD have used their own accounts to manage a St Mirren overdraft when needed (not this season)....You are aware Richard Atkinson gave a £30,000 loan to the club due to cash flow?........When football budjets are set out at the start of the season some predictions have to be made. If we don't compete relegation is certain. If we over spend (on projections that turn out lower i.e a drop in attendance) then we have no one to turn to. Cash flow will be a major problem for us Stuart unless Richard has Maxi as a bank or some other way of raising more cash. Motherwell is raising the money for an overdraft....go and check!

[Stuart Dickson]

Most successful buisinesses need an overdraft facility. Spartans don't require £2million to keep the lights on then pay for an SPL football team. The BOD have used their own accounts to manage a St Mirren overdraft when needed (not this season)....You are aware Richard Atkinson gave a £30,000 loan to the club due to cash flow?........When football budjets are set out at the start of the season some predictions have to be made. If we don't compete relegation is certain. If we over spend (on projections that turn out lower i.e a drop in attendance) then we have no one to turn to. Cash flow will be a major problem for us Stuart unless Richard has Maxi as a bank or some other way of raising more cash. Motherwell is raising the money for an overdraft....go and check!

I don't need to check I know Motherwell are attempting to raise £1.5m for a "Reserve". What they are doing is sensible but as I've said their model is completely different to that of 10000hours. Once 10000hours is up and running it will be generating revenue - this isn't football club revenue, this is revenue that will sit within the CIC. If there is a cash flow issue the CIC can and will be able give a short term loan to the club to resolve the issue. You wouldn't need a rich individual because the club would be owned by a company

[St. Sid]

Motherwell is raising the money for an overdraft.

furfuxake.

MFC are MFC - SMFC are SMFC. You are obviously keen to try and find some revelation within the MFC model that somehow weakens our own model. However, as has been pointed out to you a few times now, they are entirely different clubs, setups, infrastructures, ownership, etc.

MFC will need to rebuild or move their stadium altogether in the not too distant future. We do not have that issue. That in itself is a massive difference. We are starting with a sound infrastructure, MFC are not. Have you explored MFC's upcoming building requirements / costs?

[buddiecat]

furfuxake.

MFC are MFC - SMFC are SMFC. You are obviously keen to try and find some revelation within the MFC model that somehow weakens our own model. However, as has been pointed out to you a few times now, they are entirely different clubs, setups, infrastructures, ownership, etc.

MFC will need to rebuild or move their stadium altogether in the not too distant future. We do not have that issue. That in itself is a massive difference. We are starting with a sound infrastructure, MFC are not. Have you explored MFC's upcoming building requirements / costs?

which will be rather expensive, i have not explored them but having sat in the main stand there and then tried negotiating the varying heights of the wooden! steps i know there is no way they comply with building control regs as regards private never mind public buildings

[Stuart Dickson]

furfuxake.

MFC are MFC - SMFC are SMFC. You are obviously keen to try and find some revelation within the MFC model that somehow weakens our own model. However, as has been pointed out to you a few times now, they are entirely different clubs, setups, infrastructures, ownership, etc.

MFC will need to rebuild or move their stadium altogether in the not too distant future. We do not have that issue. That in itself is a massive difference. We are starting with a sound infrastructure, MFC are not. Have you explored MFC's upcoming building requirements / costs?

Apart from anything else Motherwell FC only own a shitty bit of 2g covered land at the back of their shed for training, and they are paying over £100 a session to train at Dalziel Park, and similar fees to play and train at Ravenscraig and Toryglen. It might not sound like much but when you are running pro youth teams at every level - and trying to keep a community squad going it's costing them a fortune.

[Stuart Dickson]

which will be rather expensive, i have not explored them but having sat in the main stand there and then tried negotiating the varying heights of the wooden! steps i know there is no way they comply with building control regs as regards private never mind public buildings

There has been a long standing rumour that they will sell the stadium as part of a compulsory purchase in the next few years as there is supposedly plans to take the majority of the road traffic away from the bottle necks at Windmillhill Street and Airbles Road and to give it a more direct route to the M74 once the Ravenscraig site is properly developed. They reckon there will be 3,500 new homes in Ravenscraig with over 10,000 new residents in the area so the rumours may have some credibility but yeah their current stadium isn't fit for purpose.

[reborn saint]

Ok got it now St Mirren don't need anyone to provide any overdraft facility once the directors are gone. They were only using their own accounts for fun. Richard can go in the future as Maxi would be the only source for such a facility. 10 fan directors with no access to additional funds can manage the season without any cash flow problems. If a problem cropes up like the £30,000 shortfall we will be ok. Thanks for putting my mind at rest.

[Stuart Dickson]

Ok got it now St Mirren don't need anyone to provide any overdraft facility once the directors are gone. They were only using their own accounts for fun. Richard can go in the future as Maxi would be the only source for such a facility. 10 fan directors with no access to additional funds can manage the season without any cash flow problems. If a problem cropes up like the £30,000 shortfall we will be ok. Thanks for putting my mind at rest.

Oh FFS!

Look - consider this. Lets forget a fan buy out or anything like that. Lets say Tesco wanted to buy St Mirren. St Mirren run into cash flow problems. Do you think Tesco would have any problems giving the club a short term loan? Now try the same if lets say a local Sports Shop bought the club. St Mirren run into cash flow problems. The owner comes up with the money from his business to give the club a short term loan. Now try the same with a Community Interest Company which is turning a profit from various revenue streams created through community enterprises. St Mirren run into a cash flow situation - are you really saying that they wouldn't have the resources to give the club a short term loan?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[St. Sid]

Ok got it now St Mirren don't need anyone to provide any overdraft facility once the directors are gone. They were only using their own accounts for fun. Richard can go in the future as Maxi would be the only source for such a facility. 10 fan directors with no access to additional funds can manage the season without any cash flow problems. If a problem cropes up like the £30,000 shortfall we will be ok. Thanks for putting my mind at rest.

Well when you put it like that rather than quoting a scumbag scumgers supporter trying to spark a majot crisis then it is worthy of a response. Now you have stripped away all the hysterical bollox there is a half decent question in there.

Your question is about how SMFC would manage short term cash flow issues. We could always ask Ticketus for an advance payment on season tickets - that appears to be Hilliers contribution to football finances.

[reborn saint]

Well when you put it like that rather than quoting a scumbag scumgers supporter trying to spark a majot crisis then it is worthy of a response. Now you have stripped away all the hysterical bollox there is a half decent question in there.

Your question is about how SMFC would manage short term cash flow issues. We could always ask Ticketus for an advance payment on season tickets - that appears to be Hilliers contribution to football finances.

They already said no to your pal Mr McGeogh.....you know the one who you said was lead astray and didn't know what he was doing most think he knew exactly what he was doing.

[St. Sid]

They already said no to your pal Mr McGeogh.....you know the one who you said was lead astray and didn't know what he was doing most think he knew exactly what he was doing.

I always like to think the best of people - except cnutcillors, they're scum.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

There was a flurry of e-mails from 10,000 hours in the past few weeks giving the impression a deal was about to be struck. Now SMISA have pulled the plug on financial support while we have the usual suspects squabbling over a fans bar that dose not exist.

Can only imagine this part of the forum will go into over drive as the season has now ended.

I know hee haw so maybe someone else can step in with some updated news in particular what time scale are we looking at for a fans take over

[Guest somner9]

There was a flurry of e-mails from 10,000 hours in the past few weeks giving the impression a deal was about to be struck. Now SMISA have pulled the plug on financial support while we have the usual suspects squabbling over a fans bar that dose not exist.

Can only imagine this part of the forum will go into over drive as the season has now ended.

I know hee haw so maybe someone else can step in with some updated news in particular what time scale are we looking at for a fans take over

didnt they say defo by end of May???

admitedly that was last March

[Gruffalo]

There was a flurry of e-mails from 10,000 hours in the past few weeks giving the impression a deal was about to be struck. Now SMISA have pulled the plug on financial support while we have the usual suspects squabbling over a fans bar that dose not exist.

Can only imagine this part of the forum will go into over drive as the season has now ended.

I know hee haw so maybe someone else can step in with some updated news in particular what time scale are we looking at for a fans take over

Here lies the problem, a lack of communication on the matter.

SMISA have gone public to advise (paraphrasing) that they will reserve judgement on the CiC due to the lack of communication forthcoming. In my opinion this statement merited some response from 10000hrs. No statement as far as I am aware has been issued.

The lack of interface with its core customers/investors will be the downfall of the entire initiative. Communication via a bimonthly/monthly email or update does not cost anything and keeps us all up to speed that it is still moving. The long silences just assist in giving the doubters more ammunition. People will understand even if they get an email advising that the process was taking longer than expected or that it had hit a few hurdles along the way. Not sure why there is so much silence and why we only hear that it still on track from those privileged individuals that have the inside track on it

[St. Sid]

There was a flurry of e-mails from 10,000 hours in the past few weeks giving the impression a deal was about to be struck. Now SMISA have pulled the plug on financial support while we have the usual suspects squabbling over a fans bar that dose not exist.

Can only imagine this part of the forum will go into over drive as the season has now ended.

I know hee haw so maybe someone else can step in with some updated news in particular what time scale are we looking at for a fans take over

All about the numbers now LS. 10000 Hours are in the process of getting numbers up - awfully quiet in terms of marketing right enuff. Once they have their numbers they will make an offer to the consortium....my guess is the consortium will end up having to be flexible on the sell price. Until this part of the process is complete there really isn't anything for us to do other than encourage anyone that hasn't signed up for the direct debit, or if we know anyone that is a candidate for the 87 club.

Until that part of process is complete the only thing they can say is that they are still in that part of the process. All the fun stuff such as the meetings to discuss the constitution and my acceptance speech for the presidency will come after that.

[Gruffalo]

All about the numbers now LS. 10000 Hours are in the process of getting numbers up - awfully quiet in terms of marketing right enuff. Once they have their numbers they will make an offer to the consortium....my guess is the consortium will end up having to be flexible on the sell price. Until this part of the process is complete there really isn't anything for us to do other than encourage anyone that hasn't signed up for the direct debit, or if we know anyone that is a candidate for the 87 club.

Until that part of process is complete the only thing they can say is that they are still in that part of the process. All the fun stuff such as the meetings to discuss the constitution and my acceptance speech for the presidency will come after that.

It may well be about the numbers. However it is also about momentum. A lot of the DD mandates were returned sometime ago. These mandates legally are only valid for 13 months from date of signing. They will require to be resigned. Whether they need to be resigned or not, in view of the delay 10000hrs have a moral obligations to request that they be resigned. This may have an impact on the numbers actually returning the mandate as I suspect the initial euphoria will have dissipated.

The delay and the lack of investment has already resulted in SMISA reconsider their position. In view that there investment was circa £60k then this equates to 500 individual yearly payments.

Its time for 10000hrs to get this show on the road or to forget it. We need timescales, numbers and targets. Most of all we need and we deserve information. When someone comes asking for you to invest your money in an initiative the very least you would expect is to be kept in the loop.

The lack of information on the subject is unprofessional and to a degree in my opinion disrespectful.

[St. Sid]

It may well be about the numbers. However it is also about momentum. A lot of the DD mandates were returned sometime ago. These mandates legally are only valid for 13 months from date of signing. They will require to be resigned. Whether they need to be resigned or not, in view of the delay 10000hrs have a moral obligations to request that they be resigned. This may have an impact on the numbers actually returning the mandate as I suspect the initial euphoria will have dissipated.

The delay and the lack of investment has already resulted in SMISA reconsider their position. In view that there investment was circa £60k then this equates to 500 individual yearly payments.

Its time for 10000hrs to get this show on the road or to forget it. We need timescales, numbers and targets. Most of all we need and we deserve information. When someone comes asking for you to invest your money in an initiative the very least you would expect is to be kept in the loop.

The lack of information on the subject is unprofessional and to a degree in my opinion disrespectful.

That's one way of looking at it; however a quick look at the 10000 Hours forum and there is no sign of the 1000+ pledgers demanding further information. People that understand the process are happy enough for it to run its course. I doubt there's any that wouldn't want it happen quicker than it has. I actually think that the supporters won a watch after the initial delay and the CIC model had to be reworked. Has the club stopped running as a result of the delays - not at all, in fact we have actually made progress.

I think that the lack of information provided by the community guys was genuinely disrespectful to supporters. I have had my go at them and confirmed that the lessons were learnt.

For me the key here relates to SMiSA actually being shown the required information. There appears to be a dummy being spat out by the general membership no doubt assisted by a committee member that has openly declared he is dead against the CIC no matter what. My veiw is that it is prudent of 10000 Hours not to release commercially sensitive information to a group that includes members that are against the CIC no matter what information is provided. That would be as daft as a St Mirren Director showing commercially sensitive information to a rangers secretary....

I and others are content to let the current stage of the process run its course.

I think SMiSA should explain to the rest of the 1000+ supporters backing the CIC at this stage in the process why they can't wait like the rest of us.

[Gruffalo]

That's one way of looking at it; however a quick look at the 10000 Hours forum and there is no sign of the 1000+ pledgers demanding further information. People that understand the process are happy enough for it to run its course. I doubt there's any that wouldn't want it happen quicker than it has. I actually think that the supporters won a watch after the initial delay and the CIC model had to be reworked. Has the club stopped running as a result of the delays - not at all, in fact we have actually made progress.

I think that the lack of information provided by the community guys was genuinely disrespectful to supporters. I have had my go at them and confirmed that the lessons were learnt.

For me the key here relates to SMiSA actually being shown the required information. There appears to be a dummy being spat out by the general membership no doubt assisted by a committee member that has openly declared he is dead against the CIC no matter what. My veiw is that it is prudent of 10000 Hours not to release commercially sensitive information to a group that includes members that are against the CIC no matter what information is provided. That would be as daft as a St Mirren Director showing commercially sensitive information to a rangers secretary....

I and others are content to let the current stage of the process run its course.

I think SMiSA should explain to the rest of the 1000+ supporters backing the CIC at this stage in the process why they can't wait like the rest of us.

I disagree. SMISA are only answerable to the small band of fans that they represent not the 10000hrs members. If either party is playing politics on the subject then hell mend them of the repercussions.

With regards what the signed up members of the 10000hrs think with regards the delay then only time will tell. However I am not signed up to either SMISA or 10000hrs therefore I am sitting on the fence wondering what is going on. I am well aware that these initiatives take time but that is no excuse for not informing the prospective members of the progress.

[St. Sid]

I disagree. SMISA are only answerable to the small band of fans that they represent not the 10000hrs members. If either party is playing politics on the subject then hell mend them of the repercussions.

With regards what the signed up members of the 10000hrs think with regards the delay then only time will tell. However I am not signed up to either SMISA or 10000hrs therefore I am sitting on the fence wondering what is going on. I am well aware that these initiatives take time but that is no excuse for not informing the prospective members of the progress.

There is no progress Gruffalo.....the numbers are updated on the 10000 Hours web site. Until 10000 Hours are happy with the numbers the negotiation on the sale price would be the next stage...none of which will involve the fans. After that is sorted the meeting will be called. What information is there to divulge to everyone at this point...nothing new to what has been provided before.

If there were criticism to be made I reckon it would be better placed at the lack of marketing being done to get more fans signed up. I suspect the main focus just now will be on the 87 club and I would hope that work is being done on speaking one on one with prospective 87 club members. Whether that's going on or not I don't know.

I have long said and am bored posting it that a simple flow chart showing the various phases of the process would help the fikker folks get a handle on where we are. However, I am not involved in the marketing of 10000 Hours.

I really don't get the urgency for information from SMiSA. Perhaps they will provide that information to the wider support in keeping with your call for professionalism and respect - or are 10000 Hours the only party open to criticism for not providing information in this process.

[bud77]

Some news from todays Herald. It looks like Gordon Scott will donate his shares to 10000hours

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/restructured-fans-takeover-moves-st-mirren-director-to-donate-shareholding-to-supporters.17660527

[Drew]

Some news from todays Herald. It looks like Gordon Scott will donate his shares to 10000hours

http://www.heraldsco...orters.17660527

Brace yourself.....(Titanic and all that)