The Referendum Thread

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Who is saying there won't be negotiations?

Nobody on the Yes side is saying there won't be any negotiations.

Indeed they speak of nothing other than having proper grown up talks. Unfortunately the better together mob at westminster refuse to even talk of talks and settle instead for repeated scaremongering and toys being thrown from prams.

[RickMcD]

Northern Ireland did NOT vote Tory. Just because the Unionists TRADITIONALLY vote with the Tories doesn't make them part of the Tory party.

No, they couldn't literally vote Tory but I didn't realise there was anyone thick enough not to know that in divisions they virtually always voted with the Conservatives. I forgot about you.

[oaksoft]

Ah. I now understand.

You're too young to understand the pain of Thatcher.

And due to to being young, you assumed cos Labour were in power in Paisley miracles could have been achieved. The Mills shut and the car factory died due to the jobs being exported to cheaper labour. That trauma certainly hurt me, too.

But I didn't blame it on local politicians.

That doesn't explain to me why anyBuddie would be willing to swallow the pie in the sky of a NEW set of politicians.

I'd trust none of them to deliver on the promises. And at no time did I decry your right to vote as you wish.

Wire in. Vote for freedom...

What's the alternative Bluto? To settle for the same old shite rather than TRY something different?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Just after a few hours after the manifesto was published someone form the EU was stating, again, that Scotland would need to apply to join the EU. Possible while we still hold British passports we could be considered as EU citizens but we'd be living in a country outside the EU until the application was granted. With it being a new application, it would not be inconceivable that part of it would be a commitment to join the euro as all other new applications have to do. There are conditions to joining the euro, one of which is that the country must have their own stable currency and be a member of the ERM for two years.

There is no real precedent here, so it is really just whataboutery isnt it?

We are currently EU citizens, are you suggesting that he EU will tell us that they don't want the country with the largest coastal waters and the largest oil and gas reserves in the EU?

I dont think anyone is proposing joining the Euro.. apart from you?

[oaksoft]

You're no even very good at semantics and splitting hairs!

As long as I'm good at what I need to be good at to pay the bills I'm happy to settle.

[oaksoft]

No, they couldn't literally vote Tory but I didn't realise there was anyone thick enough not to know that in divisions they virtually always voted with the Conservatives. I forgot about you.

So Northern Ireland didn't vote for Tories either then.

Good - sorry you had me confused there for a minute by claiming that I was wrong to say that.

[oaksoft]

There is no real precedent here, so it is really just whataboutery isnt it?

We are currently EU citizens, are you suggesting that he EU will tell us that they don't want the country with the largest coastal waters and the largest oil and gas reserves in the EU?

I dont think anyone is proposing joining the Euro.. apart from you?

The answer to this is so obviously "No" that it beggars belief you need to ask it.

There's absolutely no chance of a member state being thrown out.

As you say, it's yet more pish from BT.

[RickMcD]

So Northern Ireland didn't vote for Tories either then.

Good - sorry you had me confused there for a minute by claiming that I was wrong to say that.

See Bluto's post about semantics and splitting hairs.

[oaksoft]

See Bluto's post about semantics and splitting hairs.

The Ulster Unionists are not the Tory party so it's hardly splitting hairs.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

oh dear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck

[saintnextlifetime]

Just after a few hours after the manifesto was published someone form the EU was stating, again, that Scotland would need to apply to join the EU. Possible while we still hold British passports we could be considered as EU citizens but we'd be living in a country outside the EU until the application was granted. With it being a new application, it would not be inconceivable that part of it would be a commitment to join the euro as all other new applications have to do. There are conditions to joining the euro, one of which is that the country must have their own stable currency and be a member of the ERM for two years.

I didn't vote SNP and neither did the majority of people who voted.in the last Scottish election. We have still been landed with them. The SNP won because they had the majority of seats, not because they had the majority of the vote. Is that another democratic deficiency ?

That sounds like a great opportunity to just , er , no bother , er joining , the European Union , after all , if we get independence , then why would we leave one Union only to jump into another one. .

If l remember correctly , it was mostly Englandshire that voted for the EEC back in the 7ts(remember , none of them voted for the EU). Given a vote on the EU today , how many would say yes. .

[Thorizaar]

Yes it is a deficiency.

Or it WOULD have been a deficiency if it was true.

In 2011, there were 902,915 constituency votes for the SNP and 876,421 list votes.

Labour scored 630,441 and 523,559 respectively.

Labour voters really need to accept they lost that election really heavily.

You haven't included votes for other parties. The SNP gained under 50% of the vote, which is the point the poster was making.

[saintnextlifetime]

oh dear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck

. .so , there you have it A Partly Political Broadcast on behalf of the Better Together Campaign. . Richard Maidley FFS. .

[bluto]

Indeed they speak of nothing other than having proper grown up talks. Unfortunately the better together mob at westminster refuse to even talk of talks and settle instead for repeated scaremongering and toys being thrown from prams.

Heard something that sounded like Eck doing scaremongering this evening.

Couldnae be arsed listening , so cannae be more precise... sorry.

[bluto]

. .so , there you have it A Partly Political Broadcast on behalf of the Better Together Campaign. . Richard Maidley FFS. .

If it had been Richard Madely I might have been interested in clicking the link...

:

[bluto]

For the majority of my lifetime Scotland has been ruled or jointly ruled by Tories.

For the majority of that time Wales and Scotland have voted overwhelmingly for Labour and Northern Ireland haven't voted the Tories in anyway.

That's 3 out of 4 constituent nations consistently voting for someone other than the Tories and the English vote carrying the day.

That is a democratic deficiency and is hard to defend.

As for your point about coalition, Scotland didn't vote Lib Dem either.

Neither did Northern Ireland or Wales so I'm not sure what your point is in this regard.

This has been said numerous times elsewhere, but seems to need repeating: England alone would have voted Labour governments in 1997, 2001 and 2005 regardless of any Scottish votes. The same cannot be said in Scotland for 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992 or 2010.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

This has been said numerous times elsewhere, but seems to need repeating: England alone would have voted Labour governments in 1997, 2001 and 2005 regardless of any Scottish votes. The same cannot be said in Scotland for 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992 or 2010.

Thats kinda one of the points of independence.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Heard something that sounded like Eck doing scaremongering this evening.

Couldnae be arsed listening , so cannae be more precise... sorry.

So not precise at all then...

Your sounding like Alistair Carmichael now...

[bluto]

So not precise at all then...

Your sounding like Alistair Carmichael now...

I dunno who he is or how he sounds...

But I'm guessing that's a compliment?

[saintnextlifetime]

If it had been Richard Madely I might have been interested in clicking the link...

:

Captured. .

[FTOF]

 

 

. .so , there you have it A Partly Political Broadcast on behalf of the Better Together Campaign. . Richard Maidley FFS. .

It's good that these tits are doing the yes campaigns job for them. My wife who up until events of the past few days was in the "No" camp. However, she saw some of yhis yesterday and commented that attitudes like that over the next few months could help rid her of her uncertainty amd fear of voting "Yes". She most certainly isn't tje only person starting to think this way.

[saintnextlifetime]

It's good that these tits are doing the yes campaigns job for them. My wife who up until events of the past few days was in the "No" camp. However, she saw some of yhis yesterday and commented that attitudes like that over the next few months could help rid her of her uncertainty amd fear of voting "Yes". She most certainly isn't tje only person starting to think this way.

One of the items that kept coming up , was that Scots don't like the English. A generality. This aspect was being continually driven by Madely , whom simply couldn't understand this . Then Acona , throws in the fact that , it is to do with the Highland Clearances . .FFS

At least ,Madely reassured us that he liked the Scots and loved coming to "another part of his country" . .

Edited November 28, 2013 by saintnextlifetime

[Stuart Dickson]

There is no real precedent here, so it is really just whataboutery isnt it? 

We are currently EU citizens, are you suggesting that he EU will tell us that they don't want the country with the largest coastal waters and the largest oil and gas reserves in the EU?

 

I dont think anyone is proposing joining the Euro.. apart from you?

So what currency is the fall back if you are denied the chance to use Sterling as a defacto currency?

The point is that the SNP published a White Paper which assumes EU membership when precedent in Montenegro suggests otherwise. They've assumed Sterling will be the currency despite Westminster politicians saying no. They've assumed NATO will allow membership to a nation telling them they can't put defence weaponry in Scotland. They've assumed oil production figures that the institute of fiscal studies disagrees with. And like all great Disney fairytales it rounds up its work of fiction promising lower taxes, free childcare, higher pensions and the scrapping of the under occupancy supplement.

All that's missing is Salmond claiming the SNP will ensure Scotland will win the World Cup in 2020. I'm told they a actually had this in the first and second draft but once Sturgeon started to sober up she realised that was just too ridiculous.

[oaksoft]

You haven't included votes for other parties. The SNP gained under 50% of the vote, which is the point the poster was making.

But that's absoluitely brainless. In a free country with a diverse population and range of beliefs and interests and a sizeable list of parties and candidates you'll almost never see one party getting more than 50%.

BTW we have a list system which tries to rectify that in Scotland. It's the reason the Greens and Tories have MSP's.

Westminster doesn't have that so although both have deficits you can easily compare one to the other and see that ours is a more representative system..

[oaksoft]

This has been said numerous times elsewhere, but seems to need repeating: England alone would have voted Labour governments in 1997, 2001 and 2005 regardless of any Scottish votes. The same cannot be said in Scotland for 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992 or 2010.

Thats kinda one of the points of independence.

Thanks Bluto for making the case for independence!

You pretty much nailed yourself in the balls there bud.