Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 That's a pity. Salmond was interviewed yesterday saying he would gladly sacrifice his political career for an independent Scotland. I don't post this to change your opinion of him or Sturgeon, just for clarity and info. I know that Tony, and that exact press release was timed to attempt to counteract the fact that so many people are now perceiving him as a serious bell end who will quite literally argue black is white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Unfortunately most of what you mention can't be answered as it will be subject to negotiation between the Scottish and Uk gov. NATO is relatively straight forward, scotland will apply to join and will be accepted as we have a strategic geographic position that makes it imperative for NATO to have us in. Maybe they can't be answered Tony, but the Yes Campaign have lost the credibility they could have gained by stating their preference and showing that they had a credible plan B if they didn't get what they want. Instead they've let it degenerate into the "Yes it will", "No it willnae" debate that we currently see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 That's a pity. Salmond was interviewed yesterday saying he would gladly sacrifice his political career for an independent Scotland. I don't post this to change your opinion of him or Sturgeon, just for clarity and info. If that was genuinely true he'd have moved over and handed the reigns to Jim Sillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 The Times today has a headline regarding the hardline approach that England should take following the referendum. Results of a poll apparently. "English seek heavy price for scottish referendum" "Funding should be cut" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 The Times today has a headline regarding the hardline approach that England should take following the referendum. Results of a poll apparently. "English seek heavy price for scottish referendum" "Funding should be cut" FFS Tony stop scaremongering. It'll never happen as you know. The next PM is likely to be Ed Milliband and he's not going to cut off his Scottish electorate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I know that Tony, and that exact press release was timed to attempt to counteract the fact that so many people are now perceiving him as a serious bell end who will quite literally argue black is white.It was an interview not a press release. Arguing that black is white -well, he is a leader of a political party,Stu...I find him less distasteful that the other party leaders. Annual Goldie will tell tell you he's a really nice guy, she just doesn't agree on his politics. I thought she was a pretty decent politician. I just didn't like what her party campaigned on. Don't let the media fool you that it's all about him. He's not some kind of cult leader... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Tories telling us miliband will be next pm. Scottish labour telling us tories are looking after nhs in England. George Galloway campaigning on same principal as orange order. No wonder they tried to change from Better Together! Edited August 20, 2014 by TPAFKATS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 It was an interview not a press release. Arguing that black is white -well, he is a leader of a political party,Stu... I find him less distasteful that the other party leaders. Annual Goldie will tell tell you he's a really nice guy, she just doesn't agree on his politics. I thought she was a pretty decent politician. I just didn't like what her party campaigned on. Don't let the media fool you that it's all about him. He's not some kind of cult leader... > well, he is a leader of a political party,Stu... I guess that means you are insinuating that I'm an alias. Disappointed in that Tony, you are a decent poster on here. If that's the level you want to bring our exchange down to then fine, I'll leave you to it. Depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28743834 .... Well, personally speaking, I couldn't give a flying fcuk how it affects the Sevco Supporters club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Tories telling us miliband will be next pm. Scottish labour telling us tories are looking after nhs in England. George Galloway campaigning on same principal as orange order. No wonder they tried to change from Better Together! It just goes to show how wrong the Natsi's have got it when the rest of us are willing to drop our differences to fight a common enemy. A Yes vote would be catastrophic for Scotland. Fortunately the nation is about to get it's voice and this bungled "Independence" will be booted into touch for decades to come Edited August 20, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28743834 .... Well, personally speaking, I couldn't give a flying fcuk how it affects the Sevco Supporters club. Ouch, showing your prejudices there Poz. I mean FFS Gerry Adams photo appears in the article. I don't imagine he's ever been seen at Ibrox. Edited August 20, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Ouch, showing your prejudices there Poz. I mean FFS Gerry Adams photo appears in the article. I don't imagine he's ever been seen at Ibrox. I have never hidden my 'prejudices'. Never. Ever. I have openly stated many times that I am a Protestant who went to Johnstone High, where 99% of my classmates supported TCFKAR. However, I fcuking detest the Sevco Franchise and will never set foot in their stinking midden ever again. This is due to suffering physical and verbal abuse at various times, being spat at, pelted with coins, being in with flute-playing scum at an unsegregated Scottish Cup semi...never mind Barcelona, Manchester....Clear as day. Couldn't give a shit what Scottish independence means to Gerry Adams either, but at least he's an elected politician, so his view is more relevant than some Norn Iron Sevco Club. What is it Shull says? Oh aye, fcuk um'. Edit. I don't like the other ugly sister either. Or Livingston. Or Gretna. Edited August 20, 2014 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 I have never hidden my 'prejudices'. Never. Ever. I have openly stated many times that I am a Protestant who went to Johnstone High, where 99% of my classmates supported TCFKAR. However, I fcuking detest the Sevco Franchise and will never set foot in their stinking midden ever again. This is due to suffering physical and verbal abuse at various times, being spat at, pelted with coins, being in with flute-playing scum at an unsegregated Scottish Cup semi...never mind Barcelona, Manchester.... Clear as day. Couldn't give a shit what Scottish independence means to Gerry Adams either, but at least he's an elected politician, so his view is more relevant than some Norn Iron Sevco Club. What is it Shull says? Oh aye, fcuk um'. Edit. I don't like the other ugly sister either. Or Livingston. Or Gretna. Lol, no worries Poz. I grew up in the same area's as you - a bit closer to the centre of it all - but I know where you are coming from. In respect to the article though - there is relevance in what they are trying to do. The referendum will affect the lives of a lot of people in the UK and yet around 63m of them won't get a vote. The myth from the Natsi is that Scotland will be rich on it's own and England will be f**ked without us. The myth from some in England is that they need to cut Scotland adrift cause we're a drain on their pocket. The simple reality is that they are both wrong. We'll all be worse off because we are definitely better together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Leaving allegiances to one side, if for nothing more than for us all to consider how short changed we are in terms of genuine adult debate from both camps, there is a strong example at the link below. Under normal circumstances, and from someone in that position and standing in the industry, we as the Scottish public would expect to take such a learned view at face value. When it comes to oil this guy knows his onions. Without any doubt at all it will shortly be cast aside with a casual "He's wrong" comment, and the 'debate' will move on to the next "It's ma baw" / "Naw it's no". It's the childish approach to the debate (again, on both sides) that we should perhaps be complaining about, rather than fighting among ourselves.... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28867487 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralSaint Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 FFS Tony stop scaremongering. It'll never happen as you know. The next PM is likely to be Ed Milliband and he's not going to cut off his Scottish electorate Jeez so short term.....You No people are always so keen on the long term and what happens 30 or 40 years from now when the oil runs out. What about 4 or 5 years down the line after people are fed up of Ed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Leaving allegiances to one side, if for nothing more than for us all to consider how short changed we are in terms of genuine adult debate from both camps, there is a strong example at the link below. Under normal circumstances, and from someone in that position and standing in the industry, we as the Scottish public would expect to take such a learned view at face value. When it comes to oil this guy knows his onions. Without any doubt at all it will shortly be cast aside with a casual "He's wrong" comment, and the 'debate' will move on to the next "It's ma baw" / "Naw it's no". It's the childish approach to the debate (again, on both sides) that we should perhaps be complaining about, rather than fighting among ourselves.... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28867487 Very well put indeed. It has been a childish tit for tat pantomime from day one and one side is as bad as the other. You couldn't make a decent government out of the whole bloody lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralSaint Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 You couldn't make a decent government out of the whole bloody lot of them. For me the logical step would be so say cheerio to the self interested current shisters....vote Yes then actively encourage and vote for those decent candidates who start to emerge in opposition to SNP and what's left of Scottish Labour when we have new National Elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 It is always important to digest the story as opposed to the headlines that the media want you to remember. The figure of 24bn barrels was purely not a Scot Gov or SNP figure, it was the widely recognised estimate. Although Darling informed the debate in 2013 that there was only 2bn barrels left. Not that he was scaremongering you understand, I'm sure it was a message of love... Sir Ian Wood knows more about the oil industry than anyone on here though and if he thinks there is less then there may well be. I guess we will find out in about 35 years. Last week it was announced that a new field is due to open up in the north sea with reserves likely to be sourced for ...35 years. He is of course only talking about existing fields and mentions the need for new discoveries, which is coincidentally where he made his money. These new finds could be west of Shetland, Rockall, Clyde or Kintyre to name but four areas that exploration is under way or likely to be in the next few years. Of course just because oil bails out the UK economy, doesn't mean that less oil would be a hammer blow for an Independent Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Leaving allegiances to one side, if for nothing more than for us all to consider how short changed we are in terms of genuine adult debate from both camps, there is a strong example at the link below. Under normal circumstances, and from someone in that position and standing in the industry, we as the Scottish public would expect to take such a learned view at face value. When it comes to oil this guy knows his onions. Without any doubt at all it will shortly be cast aside with a casual "He's wrong" comment, and the 'debate' will move on to the next "It's ma baw" / "Naw it's no". It's the childish approach to the debate (again, on both sides) that we should perhaps be complaining about, rather than fighting among ourselves.... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28867487 This the same Guy that said " UK gas and Oil industry revamp to add £ 200 Billion to economy " 6 months ago ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 For me the logical step would be so say cheerio to the self interested current shisters....vote Yes then actively encourage and vote for those decent candidates who start to emerge in opposition to SNP and what's left of Scottish Labour when we have new National Elections. So, just so that I'm clear, you are proposing it would be 'logical' for people vote for the SNP backed Yes campaign, then vote against the SNP in favor of the mystery parties that 'emerge in opposition to SNP'? And presumably these new parties will be able to trade using Monopoly money when the oil runs out? Always interested to read any opinions Wirral (yours is just as valid as mine), but perhaps as your name suggests you are based down south and therefore the consequences of either a Yes or a No arguably carry a bit less personal risk? If you are up here, and you do believe the largely impartial data on oil, it is at least reasonable to suggest that while we might be dead and buried our children and grandchildren could very well find themselves living in a small country with huge financial challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Planet Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 It is always important to digest the story as opposed to the headlines that the media want you to remember. The figure of 24bn barrels was purely not a Scot Gov or SNP figure, it was the widely recognised estimate. Although Darling informed the debate in 2013 that there was only 2bn barrels left. Not that he was scaremongering you understand, I'm sure it was a message of love... Sir Ian Wood knows more about the oil industry than anyone on here though and if he thinks there is less then there may well be. I guess we will find out in about 35 years. Last week it was announced that a new field is due to open up in the north sea with reserves likely to be sourced for ...35 years. He is of course only talking about existing fields and mentions the need for new discoveries, which is coincidentally where he made his money. These new finds could be west of Shetland, Rockall, Clyde or Kintyre to name but four areas that exploration is under way or likely to be in the next few years. Of course just because oil bails out the UK economy, doesn't mean that less oil would be a hammer blow for an Independent Scotland. A lot of good balance in there Tony. One thing that it seems everyone worldwide can agree on is that fosil fuels are in massive decline and will one day run out, hence the billions of pounds being spent every year globally to find suitable successors. So, worst case an ecomony like that of an inde Scotland would potentially be phucked, best case we go on finding more and more of the stuff. The reality is likely to be somehwere in the middle where year on year it gets harder and harder as the black stuff slowly but surely dries up. Bit like Fish in the sea, the only way to guarantee their future is to stop catching them so they reproduce, it's hard to apply that theory to oil. Bottom line, I'm being asked to believe the oil reserves will flourish. This is the core of my problem with so many of the arguments from the Yes camp. It 'feels' like it all comes down to a massive leap of faith, which is romantic but foolhardy. The legal system in our county is innocent till proven guilty. As a voter I looked to Salmond and co to prove to me that the Union was in some way guilty, and that the new inde Scotland would at least be workable. What I'm concluding on almost every single big issue is that it might be OK. That wouldn't cut it in a court of law, so I'm not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Sigh. Of course just because oil bails out the UK economy, doesn't mean that less oil would be a hammer blow for an Independent Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 A lot of good balance in there Tony. One thing that it seems everyone worldwide can agree on is that fosil fuels are in massive decline and will one day run out, hence the billions of pounds being spent every year globally to find suitable successors. So, worst case an ecomony like that of an inde Scotland would potentially be phucked, best case we go on finding more and more of the stuff. The reality is likely to be somehwere in the middle where year on year it gets harder and harder as the black stuff slowly but surely dries up. Bit like Fish in the sea, the only way to guarantee their future is to stop catching them so they reproduce, it's hard to apply that theory to oil. Bottom line, I'm being asked to believe the oil reserves will flourish. This is the core of my problem with so many of the arguments from the Yes camp. It 'feels' like it all comes down to a massive leap of faith, which is romantic but foolhardy. The legal system in our county is innocent till proven guilty. As a voter I looked to Salmond and co to prove to me that the Union was in some way guilty, and that the new inde Scotland would at least be workable. What I'm concluding on almost every single big issue is that it might be OK. That wouldn't cut it in a court of law, so I'm not buying it. Exactly and well put. It was up to the Yes Campaign to prove it's case and it's not only not done that, it's refused to even try to do that and instead it's tried to bully, cajole, and ridicule anyone who's stated that they would vote No. It's a sad reflection on the Yes Campaign that their once in a lifetime opportunity has been wasted by a lack of planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Sigh. It's the central plank of the costings in the White Paper Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 It's interesting that folks want guarantees regarding independence, yet there are no guarantees of success with the Union as the previous boom/bust shows. The uk economy is built around the finance of the city, associated housing bubble and the balance of trade bailed out by oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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