So Farewell then Scottish Independence.....

[FTOF]

4 hours ago, DougJamie said:

I think SD makes a great fisherman, he just drops the hook and reels in the usual catches.

 

 

Not really.

It's more like a fishermen getting devoured by sharks for being stupid enough to go for a swim.

[Stuart Dickson]

1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said:

I didn't sit and type this, copy & paste is a great thing.

Two Questions every Unionist must answer (but I won't hold my breath)

1. Why does Scotland, within the Union, have a deficit far larger than every other comparable nation in Europe despite our wealth of resources?

2. If Scotland was independent today with an economy similar to those nations and joining this Union would LEAD to that deficit, would you vote to join?

The mainstream press are falling over themselves to point out the size of the financial deficit that Scotland has as part of the United Kingdom. From this, unionists conclude that Scotland cannot afford to be an independent nation and that it shows how much we need the UK to subsidise us. Putting aside that remarkable lack of respect and ambition for Scotland there is, however, a question the press are not asking.

It’s a small question, one that’s not difficult to understand, in fact I would say it should be the first thing out of the mouth of any self respecting journalist looking at GERS and having just received a quote from a sycophantic Westminster politician about black holes. They should simply ask “how come”? They could even use the shorter version “Why”? Why, when Scotland is a country with an embarrassment of economic advantages that any small to medium-sized independent country would give their left arm for, do we have a financial deficit greater than any other independent n against?

Why, when being run from Westminster is supposed to be such an advantage, does GERS (the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland) report clearly demonstrate that it isn’t. Look at benchmark nations, ones with a similar-sized population to Scotland that coexist in the same Western European geographic, economic and political environment, but are independent. According to GERS all Scotland’s benchmark independent EU members (and Norway) are financially better off than Scotland – how come?

Those nations would love to have Scotland’s oil and use it for the good of their own citizens, Norway is far more reliant on oil than Scotland, but it has been saving up for a rainy day and can increase investment to stimulate growth and save jobs by investing from its oil fund when the best the UK government did for Aberdeen was a city deal that involved less cash per head than Manchester, a city that by comparison is booming. Sure the UK Government gave big tax breaks to the big corporates that run the oil industry but the jobs still melted away, as always they help the big corporates and not the people.

Denmark would love to have a national drink that generated £120 of exports per second, that generates massive tax takes in the locations it is sold throughout the UK. Scotch whisky companies would gladly sell you a bottle of whisky for £4, the rest you pay is the UK tax.

A packed out Royal Mile, the world’s largest arts festival, the Edinburgh Fringe, adds £261m to the economy
Sitting in Edinburgh the city is alive with the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe, the world’s largest arts festival attracting 500,000 visitors and adding £261m to Scotland’s economy. Belgium would love to have such a tourist attraction, never mind the beauty of wild Scotland or golf tourism.

Ireland would kill to have Scotland’s online gaming industry which has grown over 600 per cent – GTA the world’s best-selling game is made in Scotland and industry experts claim the gaming sector could grow to be worth more to Scottish economy than oil ever was.

Sweden would like to match Scotland educationally, (according to the Office of National Statistics) the adult population of Scotland is the most educated in the whole of Europe. Forty-five per cent of people in Scotland aged between 25 and 64 have experienced tertiary education – including university degrees and further education. Luxembourg, Finland and Ireland (all benchmark independent nations) vie for second place as the only other countries to get more than 40 per cent.

Finland must be massively envious that Scotland possesses 25 per cent of the EU’s entire tidal and wave energy potential, a source of energy that doesn’t pollute, won’t run out and, given Aberdeen energy sector leadership, we are better placed than anyone else to create a world centre for renewable energy, but no – Westminster prefers nuclear.

We got lucky with oil and now again with renewables lets not make the same mistake and see either the sector under-invested in or milked by Westminster. As part of the UK billions that should have been invested in Scotland and the North East were siphoned away when we should have been investing in, diversifying and strengthening our economy instead of paying off UK debt – Westminster and the unionist media never said thanks for all those years when Scotland bailed the UK out with our surpluses, but now we have two years where our figures are worse than the UK’s apparently we are the basket case.

The simple fact is GERS figures tell us nothing about how Scotland would have fared as an independent country under the same circumstances, as we would have implemented bespoke economic policies, had different tax rates and with either a sovereign oil fund or massive capital investment – we would have a radically different fiscal starting place.

It does tell us that our core onshore economy is strong, growing £1.9bn in tough conditions. But to see how Scotland would fare as an independent nation look at every benchmark country and ask how, when added together they can hardly match Scotland’s economic advantages, do they somehow manage to have smaller financial deficits than Scotland.

The difference is they get to make decisions for themselves, the people who choose economic strategies and investment policies are those closest to the problems and opportunities of the country and with their country’s best interest at heart.

Just for fun ask a Swede or a Norwegian, a Belgian or Dane if they think they would be better with a distant, dysfunctional, disinterested government from a larger nation that neither cares about nor understands their nation and its economy, making all their decisions for them.

No one would ever join such a union.

 

 

 

No you wouldn't. You lie. The SNP White Paper showed quite clearly that there would be nothing bespoke about it at all. There was to be no change to benefits, to the NHS, to pensions or even to taxation. The only change they promised was free nursery places and scrapping the Bedroom Tax neither of which was ever likely to deal with a deficit. 

Independence is dead. RIP SNP. 

[Stuart Dickson]

46 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

So always now started in 2010.

 

 

 

 

How many years would you have liked to have been getting more than your equal share then Cockles? And how many years do we need to go back to stop the SNP feeling as though those nasty Englanders are starving us?

Edited August 26, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[salmonbuddie]

No you wouldn't. You lie. The SNP White Paper showed quite clearly that there would be nothing bespoke about it at all. There was to be no change to benefits, to the NHS, to pensions or even to taxation. The only change they promised was free nursery places and scrapping the Bedroom Tax neither of which was ever likely to deal with a deficit. 

Independence is dead. RIP SNP. 

So how is the Union we benefit so much from dealing with that deficit?

[oaksoft]

16 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

So how is the Union we benefit so much from dealing with that deficit?

 

Good luck with that question.

I tried asking the same thing and got no response.

[salmonbuddie]

Oi! You can join Cockles and wait your turn for answers. I believe I'm first in line.

Good luck with that question.

I tried asking the same thing and got no response.

Trust me, I've been asking for years, now. Still waiting...think he's holding out for Sid to come along and help him out for my first set. About, oh, 5 years ago now, I think.

[Stuart Dickson]

35 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

So how is the Union we benefit so much from dealing with that deficit?

 

 

The UK economy was in surplus last month, so I think its safe to say the UK is dealing with it rather well.  

[Stuart Dickson]

2 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

 

So in your world, it's always been in surplus and Gideon didn't need to falsely claim we'd be deficit free by last year.

 

 

Nope, and I've never said that. 

I do love this though. In a week of the worst possible news for the SNP, a week that highlighted yet again just how ridiculous their White Paper was in 2014, Natsi after Natsi and Cybernat after Cybernat is scrambling to tell us the UK is worse. Well it plainly isn't. Scotland would have been utterly f**ked if we'd listened to snake oil salesmen like Alex Salmond. He may have fooled 45% of the nation and turned them into anti Scottish traitors, but there was an heroic 55% that saved Scotland from the latest attempt to lead us down the Darian II route. 

Let's honour the heroes. 

[Stuart Dickson]

19 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

 

But you did write previously ALWAYS and not able to substantiate that assertion, so I've no idea if your lying or just ALWAYS thick when you post stuff that you're not actually able to provide proof of.

So what is it, are you a compulsive liar or just #thichasfcuk like your mate?

Please feel free to provide proof of the accusations of those that asked simple questions that you're ignoring before answering my simple question.

Na, didn't think so.

 

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Do you ever get bored trying to defend the worst government Scotland has ever had? 

If we'd listened to you and your ilk we'd have been living in a poverty stricken Scotland, destitute, with an annual budget deficit greater than that of Greece, and with an economic outlook that wouldn't see us qualify for EU Membership. Fortunately many of us saw yourgame, called you out and voted to remain in the UK. Thank Christ we did. It's the best move Scots have ever made. The sooner the dafter,more gullible 45% of our voting electorate see this the better. Independence is dead. You'll never convince the 55% we'd be better off on our own. And now you'll find it increasingly difficult to sell the notion to your 45% that they should ever trust the SNP again. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[The Real Zippy]

He's still ignoring the 1.9bn onshore growth figure and the 'oil isn't a necessity' statements that have been staring him in the face. Meh!

[Stuart Dickson]

He's still ignoring the 1.9bn onshore growth figure and the 'oil isn't a necessity' statements that have been staring him in the face. Meh!

You keep clinging onto that Zippy. If Scotland had gone independent Wed have been staring at budget deficits of £12Bn, followed by £15Bn. Onshore growth wouldn't have bought you f**k all anywhere in Europe.

Fortunately it doesn't matter cause the UK is still showing steady growth, it's able to borrow money cheaply and it can cover the losses in Scotland. The whole of the UK has shown "onshore" growth. I don't know why you'd credit the SNP with that when their only business idea is to keep giving Amazon tax breaks to set up here.

[The Real Zippy]

Yes I will keep clinging onto that safe in the knowledge that oil is a luxury asset and not a dependable necessity. Its bampot Brti Nat extremists like you who constantly swallow the line that this country is solely dependent on oil for its well being. And may I remind you that Scotland only receives 2% of the overall oil tax revenues generated with the rest being squandered on London centric projects like the London Crossrail. Weigh up the 97% of the 1.8bn oil tax take we get that has been lost against our overall GDP of 250bn then Ray Charles could even see that the country, whilst not a land of milk and honey by any stretch, is not the destitutw basket case you and your like paint. Next you'll be telling us the natives will be reduced to being clad in loincloiths and subsisting in beetles next if we ever went alone. Sadly, there are those that probably would!

[The Real Zippy]

Oh and whilst we are at it, the Loonie yoonies have failed to point out that by going it alone we wouldnt be diverting 64bn of our taxes raises to London for tte likes of HS2 and the aforementione cross rail. Funny how they are not at pains to point this out. I wonder why.....

[salmonbuddie]

Not to mention Trident..

[TopCat]

No surprise to see the nats furiously swimming against the tide of evidence.

It's ok to admit you were wrong guys. It's ok to change your mind.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

GERS shows that Scotland allegedly spends £5billion on defence.
Really?

[Stuart Dickson]

2 hours ago, TopCat said:

No surprise to see the nats furiously swimming against the tide of evidence.

It's ok to admit you were wrong guys. It's ok to change your mind.

Absolutely. What is it about these Natsi's that have them swallowing every single line pumped out by the party through propaganda channels like Wings Over Scotland and The Nationalist without ever engaging their brain first? It's all a bit like watching Scientologists defending Elron Hubbard and his story about aliens. Maybe it's because the Natsi hatred of the English is so strong they'll do anything to blame them; maybe they've invested so heavily they are struggling to back down because of a need to save face. Either way I can#'t understand why anyone would support this Scottish Government ever again. It's got an horrific record in everything from the disastrous recruitment freeze in the NHS, the council tax freeze which has devastated local services, a massive failure to meet all of their educational targets from class sizes to exam results, and a complete inability to attract good overseas investment into Scotland which left it woefully exposed when the oil tax revenues fell through the floor. Their white paper document has to go down in history as one of the most fanciful works of fiction ever written by any government of any hue, and the constant contradiction of wanting to be independent but ruled from Europe has always been utterly bizarre. 

Year on year that 45% will shrink away into the distance as some of the effects of the brainwashing subsides but I do worry for the hard of thinking like Coward and Zippy here. I just wonder how long it will take before Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh looks to defect back to the Tories or the Labour Party as she sees her chances of power diminish. I do hope both parties have the good sense to tell her to get to f**k

[salmonbuddie]

Are you really that stupid, Coco?

Empirical evidence - his posts on here - indicate that he is, in fact, not that stupid. He's even stupider...

[Stuart Dickson]

4 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

Empirical evidence - his posts on here - indicate that he is, in fact, not that stupid. He'd even stupider...

 

 

I'm one of the 55% that saved the country. I'm not that stupid. 

[Stuart Dickson]

9 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

 

In that case can you provide the proof of the oil price you quoted before the referendum?

You can answer that with a simple yes or no.

 

No idea what you are talking about but I can see you are doing everything yet again to deflect and spin. It's sad really. It was your parties White Paper that has buried Scottish Independence forever. You want to go after the fool that ignored his own advisers to put that pile of shite together.

Alex Salmond = Elron Hubbard

[salmonbuddie]

 

I'm one of the 55% that saved the country. I'm not that stupid. 

As said, even stupider.

[Stuart Dickson]

1 minute ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

As said, even stupider.

 

I was on the heroic side that kept the nation alive, vibrant and financially healthy. The 45% that voted for Independence would have sold the country down the river to satisfy one mans fantasy build on a David Murray business plan of just continuing to borrow like f**k and spending like there is no tomorrow. We'd have had to scrap the NHS at the very minimum, probably unemployment benefit, and pensions too. And Scotland would have been a very grim place, full of people staring over Hadrians Wall at all the prosperity in what was left of the UK, wishing we could get back in. 

The dafties were the ones who followed the cult, who believed in the White Paper and who actually thought that a country could be built on oil alone. Silly f**kers. 

[salmonbuddie]

And again, someone take that spade off him...

[The Real Zippy]

Stuart ignoring the figures put in front of him again I see. And for posterity I don't get my source of information from WoS.

[Stuart Dickson]

Stuart ignoring the figures put in front of him again I see. And for posterity I don't get my source of information from WoS.

The only figure that matters Zippy is a £15bn deficit, the year after a £12bn deficit. Scotland would have been flushed down the toilet if we'd voted Yes. Thankfully we weren't all as stupid as you.