Sweeper07

Saints
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About Sweeper07

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    Peter Godfrey

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    East Lothian
  1. Sounds like the Newcastle Board are incompetent, just like other ones who do not spend wisely!
  2. Soctty For any team, but certainly one of our size and means, going into the red voluntarily would be utter lunacy. Spending a wee bit more money doesn't guarantee anything. Spending a lot more money might elevate a team to promotion from the Championship, but we'd have spent money we don't have, which would be unsustainable, especially when interest payments are due on the debt. I'd rather still have a club, than mourn a former club whose last act was to get promoted to the Premiership before going bust shortly after. Response. Thanks for asking me to explain rather than calling me a nutter as the real nutters do. It is so easy to read into words things that are not intended. So invested as I mean it - putting "our money", (Not big scary loans which will spiral us into meltdown) into commercial ventures, players, management with the expectation/ambition of achieving a "gain". (By expectation, I mean having done all the homework to give the business the best chance of it happening - business decisions should not be taken too quickly or too late) Sacking Murray was far too late; no question - the stats prove that, and although we can appreciate the BOD giving him every chance, it actually cost us more in the long run. (No play off place and still the pay off) The BOD do invest to a fashion, of course they have to - Commercial ventures are things like the hospitality. I suspect there is more can be done in this area. (Guess that is Tony's arena to explore) The money invested or risked in players and management in recent years has not always been good (to say the least). Murray was very disastrous - in terms of results (which always keeps fans away), the cost us in his wages, his assistant who got paid off and in signing folk like Gow, Agnew etc.. Teale, Craig were "cheap in house options" that proved to be very poor decisions indeed. (Craig had previously failed as a manager - decent coach though) The level of financial risk on them might have been less than for a good manager and players, but the result was clearly loss upon loss. So if for example Rae was in at the start of the season and his record was roughly what it has been, we would have finished much higher in the league - the payment for finishing higher is significant (even between 8th and 5th it is tens of thousands of pounds). Finishing 4th or 3rd would have brought in even more (0ver £100,000) plus the play off games revenue added on to that. My assertion is that the BOD and many fans seem to want us to "play what seems to be so safe" that THE 1st priority is financial breakeven, not a penny over ever... I am not saying we sign 2 extra better players and risk going into debt £100,000 or something like that - but if we were a little bolder and wiser in who we were signing and in other areas of Directorship management, there is a good chance it would pay off. (Not sure we have the right directors for that though) Certainly what they have been doing with their supposedly low risk keep us financially safe, decisions has not been safe(flirting with relegation) or smart. So I think (just an opinion) Teale never got a decent enough chance to sign enough of the quality players that were available - the BOD would not take the risk and he was therefore just the short term, cheap option in stead of installing a decent manager in place of Craig. (i.e. Ross County took someone with experience in management, we did not and Teale was already on the books as a player - not sure what change was made financially to his contract - but he was a cheaper option - which failed miserably - and cost us playing in the Premier League budget wise for this year and next already.) I also wonder if Murray got the job on the proviso of blooding more of the development/young (cheaper players, but prospects). OK he did have a budget and signed some experience too - but the mix was wrong. He was also a bit unlucky with Naismith's injury, then Watson's too. But he did not have good management credentials (Last season at Dumbarton they won 9 out of 36 league games and lost 79 goals - yeah shocking isn't it? Promising young manager my ASS) I also think the BOD did raise their normal stingy bar when they brought in Rae. (I don't know what he is getting paid or how it compares to what Murray was on - however, He offloaded 5 players and brought in 4 - 3 from the Premier League). Again this is speculation, but I think the BOD, like the fans were in real fear of relegation, so I suspect Rae's budget to bring in the experience that the squad and team were so obviously lacking, was more than the BOD would have afforded him otherwise. (Just look at how our best paid players went away/off the budget each year, year after year previously.) I am not saying that should never be done, but year after year losing your best 1 or 2 makes life a lot more difficult. As an example look at Dundee Utd - they lost several of their better players in a couple of seasons, and they too are following in our footsteps. (They might yet survive, but they are in the black financially - yet they have been a top 6 side for so long - who expected them to be in bottom place at this stage in the season?) So does no one agree our pot of money, which could be bigger if we were more financially astute, could have been INVESTED in better players and management than it has been in recent years? IF you are happy with what has gone on, then maybe surviving as a club is all that matters? I think surviving as a club matters too - but not in isolation to being where we ought to be - surely that is not in the pack with Dunbarton and Morton? Lower than Hamilton and Partick to name but a few? I don't think any of us are poles apart in what we want for St. Mirren. Even the improvement under Rae already has lifted the spirits - but compared to where we were a few seasons ago, we will need some bigger ambition, wiser investment and a better squad that we currently have.
  3. Yes absolutely correct - but there is somewhere in between these extremes also - whereby the team and management are invested in wisely, the performance/results are not mediocre and even a decent measure of success is the outcome.
  4. I don't believe any top club or their fans would be happy being in the black with reasonable profits for the year, but getting relegated. Can you imagine old firm fans or directors saying, "Oh well we got relegated, but at least we made a profit" The main difference is the level of ambition and expectation is in a different league to what we aim for - I am not saying we can complete with them on their budget, but if we believe we are mediocre and try to be mediocre - guess what!!!!!
  5. Found this on - line - Scottish Championship Position Payment 1 £474,750 2 £400,900 3 £337,600 4 £274,300 5 £211,000 6 £189,900 7 £179,350 8 £168,800 9 £158,250 10 £147,700 Top 4 for the big money but also decent difference from 5th to 8th
  6. Yeah but look at Newcastle - big profit announcement and heading into relegation - it is not all about balancing the books or running in the black
  7. Go on write some more irellevant sh*t, make other false acusations (so I suspect this will be the last time I reply to you) - it is pointless replying to you when you don't read and take in what is being said. Then attack folk who don't think like you do with whatever your imagination conjures up. (PS I am not much of a drinker - haven't had a beer in 3 months, only a few whisky's and a couple of glasses of wine - about 16 untis in 3 months, always only 1 in a 24 hour period ) It is ok to have opinions, but it is often helpful to LISTEN to other people's, ask questions for clarification etc. There is no need to be an arogant, ignorant to**er
  8. Thanks!!! But surely we are a better team for the lad than Dunfermline - we managed to beat them 4 v 0 and astonishingly it was while Murray was in charge.
  9. Quotes from Brain-soft In fairness sweeper is talking about spending more than we are bringing in. He specifically criticised TC for using the phrase "spend what we bring in and not a penny more". Clearly you are arithmetically challenged so I will spell it out for you - spending more than you are bringing in is financial mismanagement, will leave us in debt and debt risks the future of our club. I'm sorry but I thought literally everyone understood that Basic Arithmetic principle Congratulations on the most meaningless pile of vague pseudo-corporate bollox ever posted on this forum. Business is VERY simple and it doesn't need a cut and paste from Wiki. We have income and outgoings. If your income is more than your outgoings then you have a business. If your outgoings are more than your income then your business goes bust. To buy better players (which we ALL want), we need more income or reduced outgoings. So rather than bashing your gums pretending to know how to run a business why not simply give some examples of how to do either of those two things. Congratulations on the most meaningless pile of vague pseudo-corporate bollox ever posted on this forum. Business is VERY simple and it doesn't need a cut and paste from Wiki. We have income and outgoings. If your income is more than your outgoings then you have a business. If your outgoings are more than your income then your business goes bust. So rather than bashing your gums pretending to know how to run a business why not simply give some examples of how to do either of those two things. Response It's great reading your stuff - best laugh I 've had in a long time. 1. You too are an amazing conjurer who reads between the lines; stuff which just isn't there - this time I am supposedly talking about spending more than we bring in. (Now that is a clever trick) Last time with your pal "I was only looking for shortterm gain" (Try reading the words, not what you imagine them to mean) Presumption is your other gift - my Arithmetic skills are greatly valued. 2. You should spend a penny yourself. So if we go one penny into debt ever it is a disaster. MMMM this pseudo business bollox must not include every having any debt. Is that what happens in businesses. (Wonder how the banks survive and successful businesses grow? - even professional football clubs too - yes some get it wrong, but our BOD have got it wrong penny pinching too - back to the level of speculation written about earlier and the FACT that it is about much more than just the finance) 3. I have no doubt your Arithmetic and Business skills are non-league compared to mine. I run and have improved a number of big businesses - I am not surprised people copy successful business model information onto wiki - everything is on there, but I doubt you will find it with my words - cause I never got it there. I chose one of the simplest models as an example, cause I did not want to bamboozle folk with little business understanding - I obviously didn't make it simple enough though. Your basic model is the simplest I have ever seen - but completely naive though) 4. Business is that simple - why ain't you a millionaire? (I can assure you that you won't ever be, unless you win the lottery) Then you could buy St. Mirren and bring in new penny pinching regimes - Then we could be in League 2 in no time at all. 5. Players can come for free when they are out of contract - so we don't only have the option of buying better players. - 6. Business models provide details of; how to, what to put in place etc. So instead of being stuck in a mentality that our income is only so much, it can investigate good ways of bringing in more money - things like share issues & even Tony's unpopular giving up the stand etc. (Just in case you cannot grasp a realistic example) 7. Though I have no plans of bringing in financial mismanagement - I suspect a lot of fans feel that is what we have had at times with the poor BOD decisions that I mentioned earlier - What I am speaking about should rid us of that, not bring it in. 8. You should never presume everyone understood anything. Many people are born with all kinds of challenges - let's not make light of those people. But for You business is only about money and balancing the books - I can assure you there is a lot more to it than that, and every successful business does not work by following your Basic Arithmetic principle in isolation to many other highly significant matters. I did previously list areas, but you think its bollox and your basic model is where you are stuck - I have to give some credit to the Board - at least there are some business practices being implemented at a far higher level that you have to offer! Have a good week.
  10. So if its not speculative - is it guaranteed to work? There is always risk investing - whether it is done overcautiously, boldly or somewhere in between. This business speak works - it is better than fag packet plans and reacting after the horse has bolted. (Taking the cheap manager replacement options that keep failing etc. etc.) (It's a riot you were critical of fan management from people like me) We are 19th at the moment but we will soon be in 17th Changed your name yet?
  11. Having a well thought out business plan for "achievable success" - at least 5 years and longer term aims for say 10. Investigating the options and risks to make the plan work. Then having a management team that make it happen. One model is the 4 M one :- Money: budget, cash flow, financial systems, to permit the plan to work well Methods: policies and procedures which drive the aims and ambitions through the organisation Machines: making the most of the best possible "tool" available in every area that can help the business perform Manpower: crap workers do no one any favours. Get the best you can afford, keep the ones that you are able at least until they are at their peak. I am not going to type out all the possibilities - but we can see from other clubs what they have done and which ones are improving or demand success. We are not likely to be able to win the Premiership in the next 10 years - but surely planning to get back into it and retain Premiership status is not now beyond us? It wasn't a few years back. Then top 6 - are St Mirren not capable of being a top 8 team? The Club have done some good stuff (Training facilities etc. etc.) but on the mindset for doing better , the bar is set too low - that is why we are in the top 17 at the moment.
  12. You are just having a laugh aren't you? If the directors of a football club make a long series of bad decisions (take a look at Craig, Teale, letting our highest paid players go every year etc etc.) and this results in the downward spiral of the "business" yes they have f***d up - it wasn't the fans fault was it. If by the law of averages they get one decision right eventually - it is possible they got lucky or that they finally got some good advice for a change. Murray's record at Dumbarton has been posted on this website many times - it was cra*p. To say his appointment was an excellent decision for any reason is complete lunacy - they conceded 79 goals and won 9 games out of 36 in the league - dead impressive. This is the kind of penny pinching speculation that has caused our spiralling downfall in recent seasons. At long last we have a decent manager - let's not miss the trick before he is offered a better deal elsewhere.
  13. You obviously have no idea what I mean by speculating - I am not suggesting mad high risk gambling and taking on loads of debt - but that seems to be what you are assuming. However, there is an element of risk/speculating no matter what players and contracts we sign. Too many young cheap immature folk like we started the season with was a risk that failed badly - that's why Rae signed 3 decent guys from the Premiership. His speculation has no doubt worked a lot better than Murray's. Where did you conjure "short term gain" from? No fan wants a flitting season in the Premiership. You either can't read or are word blind and your reference to not a penny more makes me think that you are Stewart Gilmour or one of his relatives. Why don't you change your name to Mediocre Cat?
  14. We weren't a Championship Club with a championship budget last year - so something bad has changed that. So why do you believe we are now stuck where we are now? With ambition like that we will be lucky if we can stay a Championship club. Money in the current budget will be freed up by 2 very well paid players and others leaving. Can't we make our best player our top earner? (Messi get's paid more than some of his team mates - though on a different wage scale than ours) No one is saying we need to pay way beyond our capacity, but lets not offer so little that we have no chance of keeping our best players that penny pinching is partly what got us relegated. e.g. Ross County signed a striker that kept them up - Teale wanted him too, but we could not offer decent money. He went to a team that looked dead certs for relegation and he scored plenty - guess what, we got the relegation in stead - HOW MUCH did that cost us? Look at our budget and the quality of the players we can attract now? Let me say it once more - successful teams and businesses speculate to accumulate - the wise and successful ones invest well and deliver success. Since Rae came along - the rise in our success / ability has so far been fabulous after years of decline. If we don't permit him some scope for winning the league next year it will be another tragic BOD management failure for us. Since it looks like a fair number of players are leaving and possibly income from Mallan before next season or at some point next year; just maybe we can invest and plan to do well, rather than set out our supreme target as "try not to get relegated".
  15. Apologies - though you might be having a dig - as we are not mathematically beyond the wrong play off position for League 1 yet. I don't know if he can step up - but Declan McManus was in a similar position (Though he went down south and is at Morton on loan and managing a few goals)