salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yep. Despite what Dickson and Faraway think, renewable is the only sustainable option for the future. That will include wind, solar, geothermal and others. Because they are infant technologies compared to oil, gas and coal it's inevitable there will be a cost problem in the short term but there is no alternative. The gas and oil and coal will run out. We owe it to future generations to start the ball rolling on renewables now. Of course we could listen to Dickson and wait until someone else makes these things for pennies but then we'd need to pay them to licence the technology losing out in the long term in both high technology jobs, research work etc. In Dicky world we would become dependent on others just like we have been for about 300 years. Yes I'm seeing a pattern develop here. If (and it's a big, but not impossible, if) we vote yes, I'd like to see a development fund set up using oil revenues to fund the research, design and trials needed to establish the technology and to ensure we have the skilled workforce and facilities to build (and export) the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well I'm in a better position than you because I understand what the fundamental problem with them is. The problem is one of storage not whether the wind blows. They already generate enough electricity but we don't have suitable storage yet. I still think that extra storage will end up being used to convert CO2 back into fuels again thus solving two problems at a stroke. I know research is underway into this. Give me a shout when wind power is contributing in a major way, although I doubt it will be as new magical power sources will come along by then. Windmills my arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray street Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Where I live in Cambridgeshire there is a windfarm dominating the skyline 6 miles away, I expect a blurting bellend from lahndahn slevering at the end of the bar will know infinitely more than me about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 So that'll be the Yes campaign dead in the water then The Grangemouth industrial action and the action's of a billionaire possibly in cahoots with Home county support has created a situation , perhaps even set in motion a demonstration , that getting to an Independant Scotland will not be possible .....................??!! Jist askin like............... A bit worrying all the same when you think about it in broader terms............building works and Capital spend disasters The Holyrood Parliament ...... a shambles The Edinburgh Shooglies ............. a shambles The current Grangemouth issues...........a vulnerability that needs Central Government aid to resolve. Hmmmmm...................me no likeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I wouldn't do that. I hope you maintain that attitude with Sean Connery... He doesn't have a vote. And I'll be the first to tell him to shut the fekk up if he complains about not having one, as I would with anyone. As StanleySaint said earlier, it's not your nationality that decideds if you get a vote, it's where you choose to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 So that'll be the Yes campaign dead in the water then The Grangemouth industrial action and the action's of a billionaire possibly in cahoots with Home county support has created a situation , perhaps even set in motion a demonstration , that getting to an Independant Scotland will not be possible .....................??!! Jist askin like............... A bit worrying all the same when you think about it in broader terms............building works and Capital spend disasters The Holyrood Parliament ...... a shambles - set up and run by Westmonster The Edinburgh Shooglies ............. a shambles - set up and run by Labour in Edinburgh council The current Grangemouth issues...........a vulnerability that needs Central Government aid to resolve - because Westmonster didn't give Holyrood the powers to deal with it. Hmmmmm...................me no likeee Thanks, SN, all good reasons for voting yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 If (and it's a big, but not impossible, if) we vote yes, I'd like to see a development fund set up using oil revenues to fund the research, design and trials needed to establish the technology and to ensure we have the skilled workforce and facilities to build (and export) the hardware.Another if (if there's a yes vote) that I mentioned on here before...Orkney and Shetland already have people there who don't see themselves as being very Scottish. They have their own culture and way of speaking. (The Islands were always Norse and were only given to Scotland as dowry for a Norwegian princess in the 1450s). I see more and more Orkney flags when I'm up there. They would need little persuasion to follow the 'Scottish' lead and go independent. Then, where would all your Scottish oil-wealth based plans be...? I'm just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Give me a shout when wind power is contributing in a major way, although I doubt it will be as new magical power sources will come along by then. Windmills my arse. Seriously, faraway? Which part of wind power is only the beginning are you not getting? You sound like someone from the 1890's complaining that cars will never catch on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Seriously, faraway? Which part of wind power is only the beginning are you not getting? You sound like someone from the 1890's complaining that cars will never catch on! I know what they cost and what they produce. I work in engineering and deal with this so called dream answer on a regular basis. The amount of ground they have to make up to become worthwhile is, in my opinion, not economic. There is also the point which I made earlier, and Bluto reiterated, the blight on the landscape or shoreline. PS What are cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Another if (if there's a yes vote) that I mentioned on here before... Orkney and Shetland already have people there who don't see themselves as being very Scottish. They have their own culture and way of speaking. (The Islands were always Norse and were only given to Scotland as dowry for a Norwegian princess in the 1450s). I see more and more Orkney flags when I'm up there. They would need little persuasion to follow the 'Scottish' lead and go independent. Then, where would all your Scottish oil-wealth based plans be...? I'm just sayin'... If that's where they want to go that's entirely up to them. I don't think they would, I think that view is part of Project Fear but that's only my opinion, and my argument is still as valid, anyway. Even the unionist parties have admitted that Scotland could make it's own way in the world, and could do so without oil revenues - they're a bonus. What I've described wouldn't really need that much and there would still be more than enough revenue to do what I've suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 He doesn't have a vote. And I'll be the first to tell him to shut the fekk up if he complains about not having one, as I would with anyone. As StanleySaint said earlier, it's not your nationality that decideds if you get a vote, it's where you choose to live. How about...I spend six months of the year working in Scotland, travelling all over from the Border to the Northern and Western Isles. Obviously, I spend all my nights in hotels. Living IN Scotland. I don't get a vote, however, (with due deference to Lochwinnoch Saint and others working overseas), I spend much more time actually living in the country than thousands of Scots who live abroad but happen to have a 'residence' there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I know what they cost and what they produce. I work in engineering and deal with this so called dream answer on a regular basis. The amount of ground they have to make up to become worthwhile is, in my opinion, not economic. There is also the point which I made earlier, and Bluto reiterated, the blight on the landscape or shoreline. PS What are cars? They are economic, they'll be all we have when the fossil fuels and nuclear materials run out. As I've said, wind power isn't the future per se, but it's still an important part of what will eventually be the future. When we're finished with it, the turbines are easilly removed and the "blights" are removed. Simples And for everyone who says they're a blight, I can find someone who agrees with me that they are, in their own way, magnificent to look at from many perspectives (including engineering!). Don't worry about cars, that's an engineering thing, too, they're far too expensive - rich man's toys. They'll never catch on amongst ordinary people unless someone finds a cheaper way to manufacture them. Oh, hang on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Thanks, SN, all good reasons for voting yes. Hmmm, dunno bout that. Lots of political mileage to run and run about this one. The posturing has already started and the Scottish Government are looking for new owners for a plant that is not for sale. Posturing and more red herrings a plenty meantime. Loada pish being spouted in the media from folk who really should know better. The added complication is that the Chinese now have a 50% share in the Refining side of the business, so, aherm a wong , wong way to run with this one.............. Presently it would appear that we ( collectively irrespective of party colour ) in Scotland appear incapable of successfully managing agreeing on stuff. Perhaps significantly the shambles are all Edinburgher based. Maybe West is indeed the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Perhaps significantly the shambles are all Edinburgher based. Maybe West is indeed the best The Gilmour Street/airport train link...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 How about... I spend six months of the year working in Scotland, travelling all over from the Border to the Northern and Western Isles. Obviously, I spend all my nights in hotels. Living IN Scotland. I don't get a vote, however, (with due deference to Lochwinnoch Saint and others working overseas), I spend much more time actually living in the country than thousands of Scots who live abroad but happen to have a 'residence' there. Do what they do, then, and buy a home here and pay the local taxes here. Not saying there aren't exceptions (like those you've highlighted) but it's the best way to decide who gets to vote in the referendum. Or do you want a vote in every local election too - your argument's just as valid for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The Gilmour Street/airport train link...? Holyrood...he might have a point, you know. Independence for Paisley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The Gilmour Street/airport train link...? yes, stopped by Alec Salmond..................to bale out the cost of his shooglies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Not his shooglies, SN, Edinburgh Council's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Do what they do, then, and buy a home here and pay the local taxes here. Not saying there aren't exceptions (like those you've highlighted) but it's the best way to decide who gets to vote in the referendum. Or do you want a vote in every local election too - your argument's just as valid for that! No!I'm perfectly at ease with where the line has been drawn. Just thought that it may not be so clearly fair and honourable as you indicate when I choose to live and work half of my year in Scotland. And is it really about paying local taxes? Did Salmond not want to extend the vote to children? Do students not have the vote...? (It's ok I know the answers. It's a political decision.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) If you're being honest here (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt) maybe if you spent more time working and less time on here then things like windmills might work better... "I'm just saying..." Oh dear, I didn't think I had said I manufactured them, let me check , no, I didn't. Great post right enough. PS There's another moron who likes to tell me I'm on here too often, he's too dim for irony. Not be hard to guess who. Edited October 22, 2013 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Not his shooglies, SN, Edinburgh Council's. aye, but c'mon , the CAPEX budget was blootered , he ( in any guise ) orchestrated the plug pull and sent that poor wee Glasgow Labour leader into the Priory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Aye, because the shooglies overspent. Down to the unionist Labour party council, not the SNP government. Or Salmond, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I never said you did manufacture windmills. I said "things like windmills might work better" but if you had read my post properly instead of seeing a post by Maxmillion and getting all upset and hot under the collar about it you would have understood this... Same time and place tomorrow chief? Aye, you're funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 It's too soon to judge, renewables are still in the development phase. And at least they won't cost the billions to decommission that nuclear currently does. The Scottish Parliament has been guilty of being one of those early adopters. You know - the kind of people who just had to sign up to a £100 per month contract to get the first ever mobile phones despite their being no network coverage - or the kind of people who bought Betamax Video Recorders. The wind farms we have now are grossly inefficient and expensive. The technology is in it's infancy. It might not cost billions to decommission but it will cost £billions to replace the inefficient and expensive wind turbines that we have now with the latest, newest, bestest thing that someone else comes up with when the technology is a bit more developed. The investment in wind power has been a gross and devastating waste of money, and the really sad fact is that the whole process hasn't benefited Scottish businesses, Scottish technology or given Scotland a greener footprint since most of the turbines are being shipped in from Asia. The SNP should been booted hard in the balls for their insistence that Scotland spend so heavily in under developed technology - a technology that sensible countries have ditched years ago as soon as the reality was clear. I spent the best part of the last three weeks in the US where it is being reported that in parts of Europe there are going to be major power blackouts by November 2015 - and Scotland was named as one of the parts of Europe most at risk with the lack of investment in traditional energy generation being seen as one of the principle reasons. Now whether it's true or not is open to debate - but you tell me what kind of damage does that kind of coverage in the National US media do for Scotlands prospects of inward investment from US business? The report went out across as number of news networks including CNN and Fox the day before the Westminster Government announced that a deal had been done to allow EDF to develop a private nuclear plant on the Hinkley site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yep. Despite what Dickson and Faraway think, renewable is the only sustainable option for the future. That will include wind, solar, geothermal and others. Because they are infant technologies compared to oil, gas and coal it's inevitable there will be a cost problem in the short term but there is no alternative. The gas and oil and coal will run out. We owe it to future generations to start the ball rolling on renewables now. Of course we could listen to Dickson and wait until someone else makes these things for pennies but then we'd need to pay them to licence the technology losing out in the long term in both high technology jobs, research work etc. In Dicky world we would become dependent on others just like we have been for about 300 years. Yes I'm seeing a pattern develop here. The only sustainable option for the future is to reduce our energy usage Oaksoft. We can do it easily and cheaply by providing a better telecommunications network, encouraging businesses to allow people in job who could work from home to work from home and showing them that by putting in place some very simple changes to their lives they will increase the amount of disposable income they have at the end of every week. Everything else uses up resources. Even the so called renewables need resources. You need a lot of metal to construct wind farms, you need to make the turbines, and then transport them to site - with each blade requiring a lorry of its own to transport it to site, after having been shipped usually from half way round the world. Then you need to cut down trees to create the space to install them. It's an absolute fallacy that wind turbines are some how eco friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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