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The Referendum Thread

Scottish Independence Referendum  

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We've debunked your tree cutting nonsense in another post so let's leave that.

Expecting people to cut their energy consumption whilst thousands of companies introduce new gadgets every day is fantasy.

Metal? They use metal for wind turbines? f**k me I thought they used liquorice and honey.

I must have a look at what oil rigs are made out of. My mum reckons they are made of recycled cardboard but I'm not so sure.

Why is cutting our electric consumption so hard for you to contemplate Oaksoft? It's not difficult at all. I work for a multi national company these days who are making huge profits by winning contracts from large companies who want us to fit our technology and use our experience and knowledge to cut their energy consumption. We've saved companies like Tesco and M&S £tens of millions per annum by implementing simple strategies and managing their energy consumption for them and we've been so successful at it that multi national clients are now queuing up to hire us to do the same for them.

Consider what we are doing here in Scotland. Here we have a plentiful supply of a natural resource - wood. Over millions of years we have shown that tree's do quite well in the Scottish climate. For tens of thousands of years man has understood that trees supply us with a fuel, a natural energy. Since prehistoric times man has understood that you can rub two sticks together to get fire, and that you can fuel a fire using logs. We've been using that natural renewable energy source for heating and cooking ever since. There's many benefits to using wood as an energy source. For example tree's reproduce creating lots of little saplings over their lifespan. The majority of those saplings will grow and develop and become fully grown tree's who will also reproduce for free. Wood is easy to store. We can chop tree's down in the spring, summer and autumn and then store what we need for the winter when we need heat. And in more modern times we've discovered that tree's are fantastic at removing CO2 from our atmosphere, storing the carbon and giving us back oxygen which we need to live. Fantastic huh?

Well it was. See greedy self interested scientists and industrialists have managed to market a product to the worlds governments as an environmentally friendly solution to our energy crisis. Their plan is to manufacture large metal structures in China, use fossil fuels to ship the huge parts half way round the world in massive boats and then clear large area's of natural woodland so they can erect these structures in "wind farms". The premise is that when the wind blows in the right direction the blades will turn, powering a generator that will supply us with some electricity. That electricity will then be used to heat our homes and since there appears to be a limitless supply of wind we should be able to generate enough electricity to stay warm.....well so long as the wind is blowing the right way at exactly the right time cause we haven't found an efficient way to store the electricity it produces just yet. Indeed if the wind just happens to blow in the right direction at the wrong time and no-one uses it it becomes a waste product.

So there you have it. We've reinvented the tree.....only well we haven't. Scientists, according to Oaksoft, are still trying to figure out how they can capture carbon to emulate the tree that they've replaced and that's proving difficult and presumably expensive. Another downside is that wind turbines aren't as good as reproducing themselves. Indeed when we need a new one we'll have to order it from China and ship it all the way around the world yet again - lets just hope there is enough fossil fuel left to get it here. We're also going to have to use fossil fuels to smelt the components of the original turbine to recycle the metals in the construction. We could have used wood but we've chopped all our tree's down now and replaced them with wind turbines.

Of course the benefit to all of this is the turbines generate electricity which we can use to light our homes and power our PC's which is brilliant, but then we could have done the same thing much more efficiently by using the fossil fuels used to ship the turbines to Scotland in our existing gas and oil powered power stations. We could even have developed a wood fired steam or smoke drive generator, a Stirling engine, or even looked at developing existing woodgas technology if we'd only kept the trees.

Alex Salmond should read the story of The Emperors New Clothes. I know it's childs literature but if he has any mental agility at all he should be able to see the similarities between the Emperor and himself. Perhaps we could re-write it with a more up to date version - how about "That fannies new wind turbines"?

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Did they?

Being as Scotland's taxpayers currently contribute £500 per head more than they get back in spending I'd doubt it. With control of our own resources I'd guess taxes would be more likely to be cut. And anyway who says the SNP will be our post independence government?

When the Scottish Parliament lost it's tax varying powers it was Alex Salmond who bemoaned the loss of the ability to raise taxes in Scotland to help fund the services the SNP wanted to provide. There was never any talk amongst either Scottish Labour or SNP MSP's about the ability to reduce taxation in Scotland.

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All you seem to have here is fear but very short on facts.

"It cant be done" - I bet your ancestors were fully paid up members of the flat earth society

Oh and btw - removing the parasite that is auld liz (and her family) is nothing to do with the Scottish independence referendum, but I guess it adds to the fear and removes the debate...again.

If independence is gained , I suspect there would be a referendum , at some point in the future asking if there was a preference for a republic . .

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Research? Oh, guessing?

Aye, because they don't know what the fcuk they're talking about.

In fairness I'm extrapolating. You're an engineer and you don't give any hint that you understand the problems with them so it's fair game that probably none of them do.

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yes they did scott they said taxes will have to increase or public spending will have to be cut to provide an oil fund, i'm not saying they would be the ruling party but they are the majority party at the moment so i base my thoughts on that, yes it could change but i personally dont think it will

So they are not saying taxes will rise to fund independence then.

FFS you're worse than Dickson. lol.gif

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If independence is gained , I suspect there would be a referendum , at some point in the future asking if there was a preference for a republic . .

Christ, can you imagine the build up to that? The old firm forum on Pie&Bovril would go intae meltdown

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Why is cutting our electric consumption so hard for you to contemplate Oaksoft? It's not difficult at all. I work for a multi national company these days who are making huge profits by winning contracts from large companies who want us to fit our technology and use our experience and knowledge to cut their energy consumption. We've saved companies like Tesco and M&S £tens of millions per annum by implementing simple strategies and managing their energy consumption for them and we've been so successful at it that multi national clients are now queuing up to hire us to do the same for them.

Consider what we are doing here in Scotland. Here we have a plentiful supply of a natural resource - wood. Over millions of years we have shown that tree's do quite well in the Scottish climate. For tens of thousands of years man has understood that trees supply us with a fuel, a natural energy. Since prehistoric times man has understood that you can rub two sticks together to get fire, and that you can fuel a fire using logs. We've been using that natural renewable energy source for heating and cooking ever since. There's many benefits to using wood as an energy source. For example tree's reproduce creating lots of little saplings over their lifespan. The majority of those saplings will grow and develop and become fully grown tree's who will also reproduce for free. Wood is easy to store. We can chop tree's down in the spring, summer and autumn and then store what we need for the winter when we need heat. And in more modern times we've discovered that tree's are fantastic at removing CO2 from our atmosphere, storing the carbon and giving us back oxygen which we need to live. Fantastic huh?

Well it was. See greedy self interested scientists and industrialists have managed to market a product to the worlds governments as an environmentally friendly solution to our energy crisis. Their plan is to manufacture large metal structures in China, use fossil fuels to ship the huge parts half way round the world in massive boats and then clear large area's of natural woodland so they can erect these structures in "wind farms". The premise is that when the wind blows in the right direction the blades will turn, powering a generator that will supply us with some electricity. That electricity will then be used to heat our homes and since there appears to be a limitless supply of wind we should be able to generate enough electricity to stay warm.....well so long as the wind is blowing the right way at exactly the right time cause we haven't found an efficient way to store the electricity it produces just yet. Indeed if the wind just happens to blow in the right direction at the wrong time and no-one uses it it becomes a waste product.

So there you have it. We've reinvented the tree.....only well we haven't. Scientists, according to Oaksoft, are still trying to figure out how they can capture carbon to emulate the tree that they've replaced and that's proving difficult and presumably expensive. Another downside is that wind turbines aren't as good as reproducing themselves. Indeed when we need a new one we'll have to order it from China and ship it all the way around the world yet again - lets just hope there is enough fossil fuel left to get it here. We're also going to have to use fossil fuels to smelt the components of the original turbine to recycle the metals in the construction. We could have used wood but we've chopped all our tree's down now and replaced them with wind turbines.

Of course the benefit to all of this is the turbines generate electricity which we can use to light our homes and power our PC's which is brilliant, but then we could have done the same thing much more efficiently by using the fossil fuels used to ship the turbines to Scotland in our existing gas and oil powered power stations. We could even have developed a wood fired steam or smoke drive generator, a Stirling engine, or even looked at developing existing woodgas technology if we'd only kept the trees.

Alex Salmond should read the story of The Emperors New Clothes. I know it's childs literature but if he has any mental agility at all he should be able to see the similarities between the Emperor and himself. Perhaps we could re-write it with a more up to date version - how about "That fannies new wind turbines"?

Are you having a nervous breakdown or something?

What the hell are you on about?

Show me a single country anywhere whose general population has reduced it's energy consumption over the last 50 years.

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That's independence f**ked. The petrochemical at Grangemouth closing pisses all over the idea that Scotland can secure huge revenues from North Sea oil

If anyone can explain what Dicky is banging on about either in this post or his magnum opus on burning billions of trees (not 2 pages after he told us coal was the way forwards) please feel free to help the rest of us out.

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Thats great...oh wait its actually a political statement by the bitter together campaign.

Not sure why it needs to be "revealed" under FOI if you can go onto the official website of the Scottish Government to read it unsure.png

An increase in tax receipts is not necessarily the same as increasing taxation whistling.gif

thats good, mr salmond would like your wee take on the word better, wee snidey remarks - the way forward.

hey im only posting what i found, i didnt intend to show backing for the people who run this campaign - in fact i think they are probably as bad as the no camp with their use of wee tricks, and if you think it will not increase taxation then i can rest at ease now

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So they are not saying taxes will rise to fund independence then.

FFS you're worse than Dickson. lol.gif

sorry i didnt know you had knowledge that tax will not increase, the statement shows that in increase in taxation or a reduction in public spending will be needed, the snp campaign is headlining more public spending, so i'll make my own mind up on that, but if you are sure income tax and or vat will not increase then thats all right then

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If independence is gained , I suspect there would be a referendum , at some point in the future asking if there was a preference for a republic . .

Mibees, but its nothing to do with what we are voting for next year. The Australians still havent managed to have a vote on becoming a republic and they've been an independent nation for a guid few years.

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thats good, mr salmond would like your wee take on the word better, wee snidey remarks - the way forward.

hey im only posting what i found, i didnt intend to show backing for the people who run this campaign - in fact i think they are probably as bad as the no camp with their use of wee tricks, and if you think it will not increase taxation then i can rest at ease now

I'm not saying that taxation would or would not increase post independence.

I was also attempting to highlight that increased tax receipts do not have to mean an increase in taxation.

So far all I have seen from the "better together" campaign amounts to scaremongering.

I am genuinely trying to stick to what is known as opposed to some of the nonsense that has been published so that there can be a reasoned debate around the serious matter of the referendum.

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I'm not saying that taxation would or would not increase post independence.

I was also attempting to highlight that increased tax receipts do not have to mean an increase in taxation.

So far all I have seen from the "better together" campaign amounts to scaremongering.

I am genuinely trying to stick to what is known as opposed to some of the nonsense that has been published so that there can be a reasoned debate around the serious matter of the referendum.

i like that, we can well do without the scaremongering and empty promises from both camps, unfortunately thats how politicians work - no straight answers i am resigned to saying what will be will be and hope the majority vote the same way as i do, i personally will live with whatever comes around, i just dont want my kids finding they have to move to another country to get themselves a better life - staying here under independence may turn out the best option for them but i do not have much faith in that i'm afraid

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i like that, we can well do without the scaremongering and empty promises from both camps, unfortunately thats how politicians work - no straight answers i am resigned to saying what will be will be and hope the majority vote the same way as i do, i personally will live with whatever comes around, i just dont want my kids finding they have to move to another country to get themselves a better life - staying as part of the UK may turn out the best option for them but i do not have much faith in that i'm afraid

Agree with all that, only had to change a tiny wee bit...

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, i just dont want my kids finding they have to move to another country to get themselves a better life

Eh???? That's what's happening NOW.

Swathes of us have gone to other countries after ending our education. Most educated Scots do that.

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Eh???? That's what's happening NOW.

Swathes of us have gone to other countries after ending our education. Most educated Scots do that.

Eh!! yes i know (if you read my previous posts you will see that i have mentioned this, in fact i mentioned i had gone as well) i just would not like it to be so bad that my son and daughter - well educated scots felt the need to up and go

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Eh!! yes i know (if you read my previous posts you will see that i have mentioned this, in fact i mentioned i had gone as well) i just would not like it to be so bad that my son and daughter - well educated scots felt the need to up and go

So why not vote for something other than what we already have? (which is getting worse BTW)

Or are you really suggesting we should vote to keep things the way they are because it may be shite but it's shite we know?

If that's not the definition of fear then I don't know what is.

Edited by oaksoft

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