DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said: We certainly have got differing views, you keep suggesting I am asking for Jack Ross to be sacked after three games, but you provide nothing to back up that ridiculous assertion. my points were the unrealistic (in my opinion) expectations that come January Jack Ross will have cured all our problems with a non existent transfer budget. Coupled with the fact he has only been a manager for ten months, in which time his previous club was relegated. If anyone can point to whatever it is they believe Jack Ross has shown to date, as a manager that indicates he knows how to, and can move us up the table then i will be a happy man, happy to eat my own words. if he gets double figure points between now and January I will be impressed, heck I might even buy him a pint! So would i Its fairly obvious that AR made a car crash of recruitment, getting rid of JG, Sean Kelly and big Kev, JR has inherited crap.... Sure managers make a difference, but you need the components , and right now, no steal, means we don't win balls. I am prepared to stick with JR, give the guy time, its the only thing that long term will get us back,even if it means relegation Edited November 3, 2016 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 53 minutes ago, DougJamie said: So would i Its fairly obvious that AR made a car crash of recruitment, getting rid of JG, Sean Kelly and big Kev, JR has inherited crap.... Sure managers make a difference, but you need the components , and right now, no steal, means we don't win balls. I am prepared to stick with JR, give the guy time, its the only thing that long term will get us back,even if it means relegation The only bit i would really disagree with DJ is we do not have to be relegated. An auld heid beside Ross for the remainder of the season might be his making, and our saving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: The only bit i would really disagree with DJ is we do not have to be relegated. An auld heid beside Ross for the remainder of the season might be his making, and our saving. Three games into JR's tenure and you're wanting to bolster the management team. I said back in September that this might occur and it was the main reason I wanted to give AR until the beginning of December but we've made our bed and we'll either stay up or go down with the current management team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 28 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Three games into JR's tenure and you're wanting to bolster the management team. I said back in September that this might occur and it was the main reason I wanted to give AR until the beginning of December but we've made our bed and we'll either stay up or go down with the current management team. It doesnt have to be either, or.... in my opinion Ross has still got a lot to learn about being a leader in all circumstances, maybe Fowler can influence him to a degree, but I think he needs a mentor who has done it themselves to coach him on all the stuff they cant replicate at Largs. He needs, with the squad he has, to make us difficult to beat at this level straight away. That, in my opinion requires experience of finding the stick, carrot or angle to use To your advantage. Its about a lot more than coaching drills, its about instilling in someones head they need to do a job they may never have tried before. And do it feckin well as if their career deoended on it. think of Carey at leftback in our cup semi against Hearts, man of the match performance from a player who frequently frustrated in the role he perceived was his best. Thats what we need right now, hammering square pegs into round holes until the opportunity to change pegs comes up. To his credit a lot of that coaching came from Tommy Craig, that was his strength, it certainly wasnt facing the media or the punters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: It doesnt have to be either, or.... in my opinion Ross has still got a lot to learn about being a leader in all circumstances, maybe Fowler can influence him to a degree, but I think he needs a mentor who has done it themselves to coach him on all the stuff they cant replicate at Largs. He needs, with the squad he has, to make us difficult to beat at this level straight away. That, in my opinion requires experience of finding the stick, carrot or angle to use To your advantage. Its about a lot more than coaching drills, its about instilling in someones head they need to do a job they may never have tried before. And do it feckin well as if their career deoended on it. think of Carey at leftback in our cup semi against Hearts, man of the match performance from a player who frequently frustrated in the role he perceived was his best. Thats what we need right now, hammering square pegs into round holes until the opportunity to change pegs comes up. To his credit a lot of that coaching came from Tommy Craig, that was his strength, it certainly wasnt facing the media or the punters! Aside from the fact that we played Celtic in the S/F , Carey's performance was certainly not MotM, he was responsible for Celtic's first goal when he was posted missing having wandered into a midfield melee where he had no chance of winning the ball . He was rightly replaced by Dummett when he returned for a second loan spell. PS - Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that TC did "a lot of the coaching"? ***************************** Just checked and John McGinn was MotM! https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/27/st-mirren-celtic-scottish-league-cup Edited November 3, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 17 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Aside from the fact that we played Celtic in the S/F , Carey's performance was certainly not MotM, he was responsible for Celtic's first goal when he was posted missing having wandered into a midfield melee where he had no chance of winning the ball . He was rightly replaced by Dummett when he returned for a second loan spell. PS - Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that TC did "a lot of the coaching"? ***************************** Just checked and John McGinn was MotM! https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/27/st-mirren-celtic-scottish-league-cup Bud stop bringing FACTs into this discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 29 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: It doesnt have to be either, or.... in my opinion Ross has still got a lot to learn about being a leader in all circumstances, maybe Fowler can influence him to a degree, but I think he needs a mentor who has done it themselves to coach him on all the stuff they cant replicate at Largs. He needs, with the squad he has, to make us difficult to beat at this level straight away. That, in my opinion requires experience of finding the stick, carrot or angle to use To your advantage. Its about a lot more than coaching drills, its about instilling in someones head they need to do a job they may never have tried before. And do it feckin well as if their career deoended on it. think of Carey at leftback in our cup semi against Hearts, man of the match performance from a player who frequently frustrated in the role he perceived was his best. Thats what we need right now, hammering square pegs into round holes until the opportunity to change pegs comes up. To his credit a lot of that coaching came from Tommy Craig, that was his strength, it certainly wasnt facing the media or the punters! Apart from a few factual errors I agree. But heres the thing............... When ever has a team in Saints colours ever been so spineless. Sure we have had some crap players , we have also had some crap managers and a crap BOD But never have I known a team that just lays down and dies like this one. How do u coach that, when u have no window or money to replace. Is JR still registered? Whats an old head going to do. We need a drill sergeant and some hot pokers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said: Aside from the fact that we played Celtic in the S/F , Carey's performance was certainly not MotM, he was responsible for Celtic's first goal when he was posted missing having wandered into a midfield melee where he had no chance of winning the ball . He was rightly replaced by Dummett when he returned for a second loan spell. PS - Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that TC did "a lot of the coaching"? ***************************** Just checked and John McGinn was MotM! https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/27/st-mirren-celtic-scottish-league-cup Aye it was celtic in the semi, that doesnt take away from the excellent performance Carey put in on that day, and really citing the Guardian's motm choice..? There pick would have been done in a cosy copy room off fleet street after reading the BBC website. I need you to ask the question about TC and coaching again, I can't believe you are asking for proof of a proven club and country coach, actually doing coaching..! He was hopeless as a mamager, but a bloody good coach, especially with the younger players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 57 minutes ago, DougJamie said: Apart from a few factual errors I agree. But heres the thing............... When ever has a team in Saints colours ever been so spineless. Sure we have had some crap players , we have also had some crap managers and a crap BOD But never have I known a team that just lays down and dies like this one. How do u coach that, when u have no window or money to replace. Is JR still registered? Whats an old head going to do. We need a drill sergeant and some hot pokers An old head can be the fountain of knowledge that the likes of Ross go to to be told sometimes it is just drill sergeant and hot pokers!!! Like i said Ross's head will be full of systems, tactics, set plays, possession stats etc... and as you rightly point out without the right tools for the job the theory is useless. sometimes you just need to throw everything at a job to get it through till you have time and money to make it look good. Now is the time for the kitchen sink to be named in our starting line up! Any sort of win on Saturday, and the view and feeling will change markedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: An old head can be the fountain of knowledge that the likes of Ross go to to be told sometimes it is just drill sergeant and hot pokers!!! Like i said Ross's head will be full of systems, tactics, set plays, possession stats etc... and as you rightly point out without the right tools for the job the theory is useless. sometimes you just need to throw everything at a job to get it through till you have time and money to make it look good. Now is the time for the kitchen sink to be named in our starting line up! Any sort of win on Saturday, and the view and feeling will change markedly. Ian Murray /Millar that worked well?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 So managers not only need an Assistant, but an "old head" to tell them what to do ?. Maybe that's why the club feels the need to overcharge the fans, given that the managerial wage bill must be massive. The way things are going, Shull will have his wish for part-time players next season in the third division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said: Aye it was celtic in the semi, that doesnt take away from the excellent performance Carey put in on that day, and really citing the Guardian's motm choice..? There pick would have been done in a cosy copy room off fleet street after reading the BBC website. I need you to ask the question about TC and coaching again, I can't believe you are asking for proof of a proven club and country coach, actually doing coaching..! He was hopeless as a mamager, but a bloody good coach, especially with the younger players. Well my opinion is that Carey's performance that day was erratic due to a lack of positional awareness (so maybe it was TC who coached him in that role ), and like I said he didn't keep his place in the team so DL (presumably) must've agreed with me about to his ability to play that role. As for Craig there's really no way to prove that he is "a bloody good coach" or who did what back in the day and I'll assume that as you describe him as being "hopeless as a manager" we can agree that his spell in charge certainly dispelled the notion that he was the "brains behind Lennon". We appointed Alex Miller for the reasons you're suggesting last season and it didn't work. We've got Ross & Fowler and my opinion is that should be enough I wouldn't go the expense of bringing Craig or anyone else in to mentor them and although I don't expect it to happen I would certainly be dismayed if we went down this route after only three games. Edited November 3, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 millar came in to work with Murray which was mission impossible, Murray was always a dud. Ross needs a mentor as he will make the same mistakes every rookie manager makes. Last season it cost his team relegation, are we happy to let that happen to us with so many points to play for? we dont need to bring anyone in, Tony Fitz could play that role! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: millar came in to work with Murray which was mission impossible, Murray was always a dud. Ross needs a mentor as he will make the same mistakes every rookie manager makes. Last season it cost his team relegation, are we happy to let that happen to us with so many points to play for? we dont need to bring anyone in, Tony Fitz could play that role! Shows just how far we have fallen. Alloa are PT mate, as was IM at Sons yet they managed win, even with Alloa JR was getting good results at home. Tony eh no. The guy thinks we will win SPL in 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.