animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I can't believe people didn't think a CIC would have a Board of Directors, that's all this is. Yes but the important fact is that the CIC Board will be completely in the control of the unelected Executive Board above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Having read the transcript it looks like animal is right. The exec board of the CIC look after budget and major contracts, and they will remain in place until the debt is repaid. Ofcourse that could also mean that there will be an Exec Board until the debt is repaid but the members of that board be electable each year at the AGM. I'm not sure that makes much sense though since I would have thought the Exec Board would need to remain in place long after the debt was repaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Yes but the important fact is that the CIC Board will be completely in the control of the unelected Executive Board above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Mate, stop for a second...ask yourself the following 2 questions... Who's been paying all the legal fees for this? In the end I suspect they will eventually be all paid out of the CIC members contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Yes but the important fact is that the CIC Board will be completely in the control of the unelected Executive Board above it. It's not completely in the conrtrol of... budget and key contracts, basically governance! As an example, if you're a Project Manager and you want to put out tenders and then look through the submissions you then make a selection. As part of the overall process though you get the okay from a Senior PM and then a Delivery Manager before the Board get involved if it's a sufficienctly high level of contract. Perhaps I'm just used to controls like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) The third tier is new to most people though and does require further clarification - mainly because there are significant advantages to having the three tiers that din't come out tonight. If you were as clever and as knowledgeable as you think you are you would already have worked out those advantages. The 'third tier' came as a great surprise to everyone I spoke to tonight. I have to ask. Why was it missing from the document posted to us all ? Edited April 21, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 It's not completely in the conrtrol of... budget and key contracts, basically governance! As an example, if you're a Project Manager and you want to put out tenders and then look through the submissions you then make a selection. As part of the overall process though you get the okay from a Senior PM and then a Delivery Manager before the Board get involved if it's a sufficienctly high level of contract. Perhaps I'm just used to controls like this. Yes so am I but I don't work for a company which is trying to kid on that the community are in control of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 In the end I suspect they will eventually be all paid out of the CIC members contributions. It'll happen before that animal. RA is really an ex-Nigerian Army General looking to launder his cash through a membership scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Having read the transcript it looks like animal is right. Ofcourse that could also mean that there will be an Exec Board until the debt is repaid but the members of that board be electable each year at the AGM. I'm not sure that makes much sense though since I would have thought the Exec Board would need to remain in place long after the debt was repaid. The executive board will not be elected, they will be made up of the guys who have formed the CIC to date. Richard, Tony, Chris, Grant, Scott and maybe a couple of others. They will delegate all responsibility, except major contracts and budget sign off, to the elected board. The Exec board are the guys who are getting the funding in the first place, who are working with the organisations who are handing over £2m. It is their job to ensure that those funders are kept happy, and are repaid, and that all of the legislation and governance of the project is handled correctly. It's boring, but someone has to do it, at least until the debt is paid off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 The 'third tier' came as a great surprise to everyone I spoke to tonight. I have to ask. Why was it missing from the document posted to us all ? It was in the document that was posted online this morning ahead of the meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) The executive board will not be elected, they will be made up of the guys who have formed the CIC to date. Richard, Tony, Chris, Grant, Scott and maybe a couple of others. They will delegate all responsibility, except major contracts and budget sign off, to the elected board. The Exec board are the guys who are getting the funding in the first place, who are working with the organisations who are handing over £2m. It is their job to ensure that those funders are kept happy, and are repaid, and that all of the legislation and governance of the project is handled correctly. It's boring, but someone has to do it, at least until the debt is paid off ? How come you did not mention this Executive Board in the last 70 of pages of posts ? Edited April 21, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 It was in the document that was posted online this morning ahead of the meeting I know. I've been wondering what the fighting was all about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) It was in the document that was posted online this morning ahead of the meeting I have looked in the file sent by e-mail and still can't see it. Please give me a link and page number or quote it. Edited April 21, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 How come you did not mention this Executive Board in the last 70 of pages of posts ? How come you did not table your concerns about the existence of an executive board at the public meeting tonight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have looked in the file sent by e-mail and still can't see it. Please give me a link and page number. It is on the 10,000 hours site /live. third last slide of the presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have looked in the file sent by e-mail and still can't see it. Please give me a link and page number or quote it. It's on slide 9, but to help you out I have pasted it here and drawn some subtle arrows that show the three tiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) It is on the 10,000 hours site /live. third last slide of the presentation. How odd ! I don't see the words EXECUTIVE BOARD. What I see at the top is a big yellow box that simply says 10000 HOURS CIC. I think I can justifiably feel VERY MISLED here. Even you have just admitted ""The third tier is new to most people"" Edited April 21, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fras Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (Apologies in advance for length of message) Hmmm. I feel a bit underwhelmed by all of this. We were promised that “all would be revealed” at the meeting, yet not an awful lot more has been said that wasn’t already being circulated on the forum, bar the bitchfest about the “Executive Board (and someone has to referee this democratic ownership). Will the CIC bid go through ? Plainly YES. The BoD want it to happen, and the shortfall in funds raised towards the £2m asking price is covered by a loan system (which happily has been explained properly to most folks satisfaction). I admire the remarks that the bid will be abandoned if the fans don’t back it. However, in reality the individual targeted membership revenue is £36k pa......very much the minority party. I find it hard to believe that if the Community and Private Sector backers are on board, yet the fans aren’t, then the scheme gets dropped. However, that’s what the man says. I’ve followed SMFC for long enough to be acutely aware of supporter apathy being the most common background to the last 30+ years, punctuated only by a smattering of memorable highs. All along there has been a hardcore of about 2,500 - 3,000, with the herd naturally maintaining its numbers (!). I hope this “client base” is enough. I do think the 300 mark will be surpassed. I don’t find the individual membership attractions very exciting, nor well thought out. A lot of play on using the boozer, then a suggestion that “any other benefits could be discussed later”. I would have expected more at a meeting aimed partly at selling the idea to the supporters. Clearly, there is scope for more commercial enterprise at Greenhill Road, but these ideas should be implemented regardless of CIC ownership or not. SMFC do a lot of things right, but a lot of things could be done even better. This doesn’t need to be reliant on CIC/Private Ownership. I’m only interested in team affairs, and if this was a Brearley situation then I would be delighted at the CIC proposal. However, where we are at the moment is a BoD who have turned the club round from the abyss, and are looking to get their payout, leaving the club to people who will not sabotage the good work, and provide the fresh energy and financial muscle (sentiments being bandied about at the end of last season by SG just prior to Gus’ exit) to take St.Mirren from this sound base and onto higher levels. I just don’t get that vibe from the CIC proposal. I think RA was encouragingly honest in that respect, but even if all goes to plan, don’t expect extra investment for at least 12-18 months. It all seems a very complicated way of maintaining the status quo. I just don’t see this as the great leap forward that the BoD were looking for originally when the sell-off was first mooted. I don’t blame them for wanting to take the £, and I don’t think the CIC bid is necessarily putting any serious risk onto SMFC or the legacy left by SG & Co. I just wish that the BoD could stick around a bit longer and encourage a financially tooled up consortium. But that is just a wish, and not likely to come true through nobody’s fault. CIC is the next best thing, but not as exciting as the main proponents would suggest. £10/month is £10 less to blow on B&H so it will do me good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I don't see the words EXECUTIVE BOARD. What I see at the top is a big yellow box that simply says 10000 HOURS CIC. I think can be for justifiably feel a wee bit MISLED here. I think it's a sign of the success of tonights meeting that this is the best you can come up with to complain about ! The CIC haven't taken a penny from anyone yet, and declared the existence of the executive board at a public meeting of around 250 people tonight which was broadcast live and documented on their website to everyone else. Who is it you think they have misled and what benefit have they gained from this grand deception ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 How come you did not table your concerns about the existence of an executive board at the public meeting tonight ? Do you always answer a question with a question ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I think it's a sign of the success of tonights meeting that this is the best you can come up with to complain about ! The CIC haven't taken a penny from anyone yet, and declared the existence of the executive board at a public meeting of around 250 people tonight which was broadcast live and documented on their website to everyone else. Who is it you think they have misled and what benefit have they gained from this grand deception ? I think we have all (and I suspect you) have been misled into thinking the community will run the Club. The Executive Board will take lots of public money and run the CIC and the Club and you will be paying for it. Edited April 21, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 How odd ! I don't see the words EXECUTIVE BOARD. What I see at the top is a big yellow box that simply says 10000 HOURS CIC. I think can be for justifiably feel VERY MISLED here. Even you have just admitted ""The third tier is new to most people"" For someone being picky about phrasing you might want to have a close look at the second line of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Do you always answer a question with a question ? Yet to see you answer a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi sorry wasn't at meeting don't stay in Paisley. Might be a daft question but who will be on the board of St.Mirren FC Ltd if the current board are selling there shares. Would I be right in thinking that It can't be any of the Exec Com ie Chairman of the 10000hrs board would he not come from the exec com. Confused and thanks if you can help clear this up for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think we have all (and I suspect you) have been misled into thinking the community will run the Club. The Executive Board will take lots of public money and run the CIC and the Club and you will be paying for it. The executive Board will not be taking public money. They have spent a lot of time putting together a business plan that will attract social funding. (Hardly the same as a Renfrewshire c"ntcillor or MSP fiddling their expenses.) The funding will be used to deliver a genuine community club run by the community for the community with safeguards in place that will avoid the club getting into debt and most importantly protecting the assets of the club. That in itself would be more than enough for most fans; however, it will in fact provide the platform for the club to grow in its own right. And from my perspective very importantly grow its position in the hearts and minds of the community of Renfrewshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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