David Camerons Last Question Time

[RickMcD]

3 hours ago, Barney63 said:

I voted Remain, and I get why it suits some people to present the result in those kind of terms, the numbers were there for all to see.  But I find the idea that somehow 'Scotland'  voted a bit disingenuous; it undoubtedly ignores the constitutional fact that the referendum was just that -  a uk-wide referendum based on the aggregated result of individual votes across the country as a whole - no constituencies or regional votes involved. Strictly speaking where the votes came from is largely irrelevant unless people are suggesting that some votes carry more weight than others? 

Stop talking common sense or you will get copious verbal abuse. Democracy is a real shit when a minority within a clearly defined and constituted country loses the vote. 'We wuz robbed' came the plaintive cry. I don't vote but would have preferred Remain because as I predicted the Angela led hordes are putting the boot in. We should be making contingency plans for the inevitable collapse of the EU. Why the SNP wants to become a miniscule voice in the undemocratic shambles that the EU has become amazes me. But doesn't completely surprise me. They want independence at any cost.

[oaksoft]

5 hours ago, ford prefect said:

Kept the rich rich and the poor in poverty, with a wider gap between them. Only those rich enough or people deluded enough to buy into the middle class myth would think he's done a good job

Who exactly is keeping the poor in poverty?

Who is preventing them getting educated?

Who is preventing them learning a skill which can improve their income?

Who is preventing them opening their own businesses?

Who is preventing them doing any of this?

Millions of immigrants arriving in this country in GENUINE poverty seem to have little problem working out how to get out of poverty. Why cant our own "poor" fathom it out?

Edited July 13, 2016 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Who exactly is keeping the poor in poverty?

Who is preventing them getting educated?

Who is preventing them learning a skill which can improve their income?

Who is preventing them opening their own businesses?

Who is preventing them doing any of this?

Millions of immigrants arriving in this country in GENUINE poverty seem to have little problem working out how to get out of poverty. Why cant our own "poor" fathom it out?

It's not only sport you have very little knowledge of then?

[nosferatu]

it's middle class lefties like Tony soprano, who like to waste billions on the welfare state, who keep the 'poor' in their place

[ford prefect]

Always good to see a thread like this. Reminds us who the trolls and craven forelock tuggers are

[ford prefect]

Why can't everyone be comfortable and have a great life? That's capitalism folks. Someone has to be at the bottom

Oh and to answer a question about why folk don't just get off their backsides and look for work. Years of deindustrialisation and under investment have left people in these areas with no hope. Whereas people arriving in the country haven't had this crushed out of them. But keep blaming the poor for being poor

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, ford prefect said:

Why can't everyone be comfortable and have a great life? That's capitalism folks. Someone has to be at the bottom

Oh and to answer a question about why folk don't just get off their backsides and look for work. Years of deindustrialisation and under investment have left people in these areas with no hope. Whereas people arriving in the country haven't had this crushed out of them. But keep blaming the poor for being poor

You reckon our "poor" have had a tougher life than refugees from Syria and Romania? 

To be fair at least you are admitting that attitude is the root cause of the problem.

You should talk to Tony Soprano and educate him on this.

[oaksoft]

9 hours ago, tony soprano said:

It's not only sport you have very little knowledge of then?

You keep saying stuff like this but you cant provide a decent argument against what I am saying.

[ford prefect]

You reckon our "poor" have had a tougher life than refugees from Syria and Romania? 

Where did I say that? I said years of being treated like crap had crushed people's spirit. Whereas people arriving have a sense of hope as they have left unimaginable horrors. If you can't see the difference I can't help you

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Who exactly is keeping the poor in poverty?

Who is preventing them getting educated?

Who is preventing them learning a skill which can improve their income?

Who is preventing them opening their own businesses?

Who is preventing them doing any of this?

Millions of immigrants arriving in this country in GENUINE poverty seem to have little problem working out how to get out of poverty. Why cant our own "poor" fathom it out?

You are seriously out of touch with reality . That is the kind of sound bite straight from a silver spooned Tory MP.

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You are seriously out of touch with reality 

How exactly?

 Its simply a series of questions and one factual, and I have to say rather obvious, statement.

Do you have answers to any of them?

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, ford prefect said:

Where did I say that? I said years of being treated like crap had crushed people's spirit. Whereas people arriving have a sense of hope as they have left unimaginable horrors. If you can't see the difference I can't help you

Who is treating you like crap FFS?????

What on earth are you wittering on about.

Have this attitude all you like but there is not a single thing that will ever be done to help the sort of person who is so trauamtised by watching Jeremy Kyle during the day that they cant rouse themselves to apply for jobs. No MP or political regime can ever help you.

Good luck and enjoy the rest of your life.

Edited July 14, 2016 by oaksoft

[strummer]

I have to say what a superb performance by the PM. Good banter with Corbyn, and easily swatting away that rather pathetic performance of the man who wants to be SNP Deputy Leader. It would have been good if he could have been as relaxed and open at the dispatch box more often but he'll be sadly missed in this house.

The man who killed the EU. ..what a guy

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[Stuart Dickson]

Just now, strummer said:

The man who killed the EU. ..what a guy
 

Killing the EU would be quite a feat. I don't think he's quite managed it yet but I wouldn't be disappointed if he had done

[salmonbuddie]

Killing the EU would be quite a feat. I don't think he's quite managed it yet but I wouldn't be disappointed if he had done

This from someone who voted Remain but denies he's a troll.

[ford prefect]

Who is treating you like crap FFS?????

What on earth are you wittering on about.

Have this attitude all you like but there is not a single thing that will ever be done to help the sort of person who is so trauamtised by watching Jeremy Kyle during the day that they cant rouse themselves to apply for jobs. No MP or political regime can ever help you.

Good luck and enjoy the rest of your life.

I do indeed enjoy my life, I just have sympathy for people flung on the scrap heap in thatchers great modernisation of the country. In order to massage unemployment figures, people were allowed onto sickness benefit for trivial illnesses. As a result we're now onto our second generation of people who have no role models working.
It's a bit simplistic just to blame the people not working. You're just a troll.

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[Guest TPAFKATS]

You keep saying stuff like this but you cant provide a decent argument against what I am saying.

I have, on more than one occasion. I'm not repeating the same stuff.
Life's too short.

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, ford prefect said:

I do indeed enjoy my life, I just have sympathy for people flung on the scrap heap in thatchers great modernisation of the country. In order to massage unemployment figures, people were allowed onto sickness benefit for trivial illnesses. As a result we're now onto our second generation of people who have no role models working.
It's a bit simplistic just to blame the people not working. You're just a troll.

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Still blaming Thatcher? Criiiiiiiinge.

That was almost 30 years ago.

There is absolutely  no excuse for continuing to bring her up as the reason.

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, tony soprano said:

I have, on more than one occasion. I'm not repeating the same stuff.
Life's too short.

Tony, your previous responses were pretty much the same banal, unfocussed and utterly meaningless anti Tory tripe you spilled on this thread.

I am still awaiting the great Tony idea which will abolish "poverty" and bring about this great socialist utopia you cling to.

I am particularly interested in your idea for motivating the army of unemployed people out there who expect an easy life at the expense of hard working taxpayers.

Edited July 14, 2016 by oaksoft

[ford prefect]

Still blaming Thatcher? Criiiiiiiinge.

That was almost 30 years ago.

There is absolutely  no excuse for continuing to bring her up as the reason.

Her government is the root cause. All of the "there is no such thing as society just people and their families" has permeated our country to the extent where people on benefits are mocked as scroungers, while millionaires and companies get away with riding rough shod over the rules the rest of us abide by. You keep telling yourself everyone on benefits is a workshy arsehole though. It's easier to do that. A bit simplistic but whatever floats your boat

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[antrin]

42 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Still blaming Thatcher? Criiiiiiiinge.

That was almost 30 years ago.

There is absolutely  no excuse for continuing to bring her up as the reason.

Stupid person.  How can you be so superficial?!

 It is not just about a personality - though she was an evil, unmourned, unloved one.

ford prefect wasn't blaming thatcher, per se - he was blaming her deconstruction and destruction of the society that existed at that time; of robbing millions the opportunity of living a decent life; and of her ripping the heart of out of communities up and down the land... and profitting her lords and paymasters.

The ill-effects of that are still redounding down the years.  I believe that it has been a huge contributor to the disaffection, sense of hopelessness and no belief that there can be a worthwhile future which led so many people to vote for BREXIT.  They have nothing left to lose.

Their societies have been deindustrialised.  There are no worthwhile jobs for them or their children.  The mines were all closed and we import our coal.  Our power, water, and other service industries were privatised and are mostly owned by foreign governments.  Our banks were all sold off, Building Societies, too...  The Crown Jewels... and (as a Scotnat) surely even you must have some chagrin about her frittering away all the north sea oil wealth, leaving us nothing at all to show for it?

The jobs you suggest that UK workers should do that are now being done by immigrant workers are only there because the farcically low wages, no job security, no insurance etc  make them economically viable for farmers, slave labour importers or zero hour employers to exploit.  They are not living wages.

In my job, I work with guys who need to do other jobs to keep a family together.  The wage for my job won't let a person get even a glimpse into the property market, (thatcher's minions are busy selling all that off, too), settle down and live what used to be normal lives.

Not all Britons come from a middle class background or have the necessary nous to break out of a poor start in life.  So you despise them...

Perhaps I'm being harsh and you're not stupid.  It must be hard to recognise that the actions and deeds of someone (politician, despot or scientist) can have repercussions for a long, long time.  Time can be a difficult concept to grasp.

And I suppose that understanding a broader societal picture - and the frailties and dislocations in the structure of the current UK society-  is too big an ask for a self-styled, so-called scientist. 

Which is why you so often resort to your twattery.  Sad and superficial. 

[Stuart Dickson]

Her government is the root cause. All of the "there is no such thing as society just people and their families" has permeated our country to the extent where people on benefits are mocked as scroungers, while millionaires and companies get away with riding rough shod over the rules the rest of us abide by. You keep telling yourself everyone on benefits is a workshy arsehole though. It's easier to do that. A bit simplistic but whatever floats your boat

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How exactly is that a consequence of Thatcher? We've always had a history of criticising those on benefits. Look back to the 50s and 60s when single mums were social pariahs. Or the 20s and 30s when to claim unemployment benefit you had a government official inspect your belongings and take away anything that was deemed to be a luxury before paying out. Prior to that we had workhouses and debtors prisons.

The problem with benefits is that in amongst those who genuinely have need there have always been the feckless, the lazy and the contemptibly workshy. That's been a problem that successive governments since the dawn of democracy has had to battle with.

Thatcher "crime" as some would have it - is that she took power at a time when our nationalised industries were failing miserably, reliant on huge government subsidies and crippled by union walk outs. She had to modernised Britain and she did so with astounding success. Thatcher created more equality than any other PM before her or since. Want proof? Just look at the huge number of working class homeowners these days, all set to leave an inheritance for their kids. When has that ever happened prior to Thatcher in British history? I'll save you looking it up, the answer is never

[ford prefect]

So we're saying an economy riddled with low paid service sector jobs and a housing market bubble are her legacy? Wonderful. Oh and don't forget an over reliance on financial services and the city of London. How did that pan out?

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[Stuart Dickson]

So we're saying an economy riddled with low paid service sector jobs and a housing market bubble are her legacy? Wonderful. Oh and don't forget an over reliance on financial services and the city of London. How did that pan out?

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Erm no. I was clearly saying mass home ownership by the working classes is her legacy.

As for financial services, it's worked out extremely well. It's by far the UK's biggest sector contributing to 78% of our Gdp, far more profitable than oil, and the UK survived the banking crisis without going bust....unlike Greece, Iceland and Ireland and we stayed economically strong unlike Spain and Portugal. Given the Socialist shit fest Thatcher inherited from James Callaghan I think she performed an economic miracle TBH.

[ford prefect]

I noticed you avoided the economy riddled with low paid service sector jobs point. That's a direct link to her policies

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Yes mass home ownership and there wasn't any to replace the ones sold. So the next generation on from this wonderful policy, have to pay over the odds. What a woman.