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Lord Pityme

How Telling

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On 5/26/2018 at 8:22 AM, StuD said:

I don't have any issue with Jack Ross beyond the fact I think Sunderland have chosen badly. 

As I've said elsewhere I found the football entertaining enough most weeks but it was never the passing on the deck from the back football others are hyping it to be. Infact when he tried that St Mirren went through one of the darkest spells from October 2016 to January 2017. 

Who would you of rather had for their job (from their perspective)

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On 5/26/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lord Pityme said:

You know for want of a better description Sunderland are my 'other' team? No...?

ach well I'm am sure if you knew you wouldnt say something as stupid as 'me wanting the new manager to fail', just like it would be ten times more stupid to insist before his move that i wanted the manager of the club I have supported for over fifty years to fail. 

Of course if you've got a completely uncorrobarated bit of spin press release to refute the above then... hey maybe i am wrong?

You haven’t ‘supported’ St Mirren in any way, shape or form from what I’ve seen my whole time on this forum.  I’ve seen no evidence you’ve wanted Jack Ross to be a success or thought that Jack Ross has been a success in the last 18 months. 

I choose to believe it based on what we’ve been told. You choose negativity every single time with little to no evidence. Completely bitter to the core. 

Not like you haven’t got a reputation for it. Or accept information that doesn’t fit with your agenda. Like  saying I’m on the SMISA committee even after me categorically telling you I wasn’t several times... at least you weren’t alone with that nonsense. 

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

You haven’t ‘supported’ St Mirren in any way, shape or form from what I’ve seen my whole time on this forum.  I’ve seen no evidence you’ve wanted Jack Ross to be a success or thought that Jack Ross has been a success in the last 18 months. 

I choose to believe it based on what we’ve been told. You choose negativity every single time with little to no evidence. Completely bitter to the core. 

Not like you haven’t got a reputation for it. Or accept information that doesn’t fit with your agenda. Like  saying I’m on the SMISA committee even after me categorically telling you I wasn’t several times... at least you weren’t alone with that nonsense. 

Laugh....? I damn nearly bought a round..!

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Who would you of rather had for their job (from their perspective)

Mick McCarthy or Chris Coleman. Sam Allardyce would have been most Sunderland fans dream manager but I doubt he'd have dropped that far down the divisions. 

I noticed that Stewart Donalds mate from Endsleigh - Richard Hill - has been appointed as an "advisor" to the football side of the club since the Jack Ross appointment. He's usually a Director of Football so it does look like Sunderland are going to use that model - although Stewart Donald says Hill won't have any first team responsibility. 

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23 minutes ago, StuD said:

Mick McCarthy or Chris Coleman. Sam Allardyce would have been most Sunderland fans dream manager but I doubt he'd have dropped that far down the divisions. 

I noticed that Stewart Donalds mate from Endsleigh - Richard Hill - has been appointed as an "advisor" to the football side of the club since the Jack Ross appointment. He's usually a Director of Football so it does look like Sunderland are going to use that model - although Stewart Donald says Hill won't have any first team responsibility. 

Coleman would be far from what most safc fans want. He had a poor squad, but he took them to the bottom of the league and relegation. He wouldnt have been welcomed back

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3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Coleman would be far from what most safc fans want. He had a poor squad, but he took them to the bottom of the league and relegation. He wouldnt have been welcomed back

Yep, I know. But the question Bazil asked was who would I have preferred. I would have preferred a manager with more experience who had the ability to restructure the club. 

From what has been said about the Hill appointment though it looks like Jack Ross is more of a first team coach and that other footballing matters will be handled by Hill. 

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4 hours ago, StuD said:

Mick McCarthy or Chris Coleman. Sam Allardyce would have been most Sunderland fans dream manager but I doubt he'd have dropped that far down the divisions. 

I noticed that Stewart Donalds mate from Endsleigh - Richard Hill - has been appointed as an "advisor" to the football side of the club since the Jack Ross appointment. He's usually a Director of Football so it does look like Sunderland are going to use that model - although Stewart Donald says Hill won't have any first team responsibility. 

All three have good manager qualities but equally they all have negative aspects and have failed at managerial jobs (which Jack Ross hasn’t) before.

I just find it so curious that a St Mirren fan can be so pessimistic about Jack Ross, given the amazing turnaround in such a short period of time but talk up managers with no association to us. Even one that’s failed to keep them up last season. Big Sam is also not exactly known for flowing football. 

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

Yep, I know. But the question Bazil asked was who would I have preferred. I would have preferred a manager with more experience who had the ability to restructure the club. 

From what has been said about the Hill appointment though it looks like Jack Ross is more of a first team coach and that other footballing matters will be handled by Hill. 

Sunderland have came out clearly stating Jack Ross  will have full responsibility for all transfer matters in and out. Jack Ross has also been given assurances he’d get at least a season so there is zero suggestion he’d only be first team coach. Every communication is ‘Sunderland manager’ clubs usually highlight when the role is more ‘head coach’ or ‘first team coach’   

I would be very surprised (as it would mean direct lies from Sunderland chairman)  if Jack Ross had anymore diminished responsibilities than he’s had here or any other football manager for that fact.  

I’m really baffled to how you’ve went from he’s got an ‘adviser role’ to him having roles of actual responsibility. It’s a complete contradiction. Maybe more wishful thinking given your negative attitude to Ross? 

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

All three have good manager qualities but equally they all have negative aspects and have failed at managerial jobs (which Jack Ross hasn’t) before.

I just find it so curious that a St Mirren fan can be so pessimistic about Jack Ross, given the amazing turnaround in such a short period of time but talk up managers with no association to us. Even one that’s failed to keep them up last season. Big Sam is also not exactly known for flowing football. 

As I said Big Sam would have been most Sunderland's fans first choice. Ex player, successful ex manager who kept the club up when they looked dead and buried, and his career at Sunderland cut short because England wanted him. 

I don't think it's pessimism, its pragmatism. Lets say the job came up in six months time, with St Mirren struggling to beat the drop. Do you think Ross would have been Sunderlands big target? He's moving at exactly the right moment for him - but that's not necessarily a good thing for Sunderland. 

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Sunderland have came out clearly stating Jack Ross  will have full responsibility for all transfer matters in and out. Jack Ross has also been given assurances he’d get at least a season so there is zero suggestion he’d only be first team coach. Every communication is ‘Sunderland manager’ clubs usually highlight when the role is more ‘head coach’ or ‘first team coach’   

I would be very surprised (as it would mean direct lies from Sunderland chairman)  if Jack Ross had anymore diminished responsibilities than he’s had here or any other football manager for that fact.  

I’m really baffled to how you’ve went from he’s got an ‘adviser role’ to him having roles of actual responsibility. It’s a complete contradiction. Maybe more wishful thinking given your negative attitude to Ross? 

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/richard-hill-to-join-sunderland-but-stewart-donald-rejects-suggestions-of-first-team-involvement-1-9181313

I got it from here. His former Director of Football has been brought in as an advisory role but he won't have any involvement in the first team. 

Its not a surprise. A club like Sunderland will have an Academy Manager, an Under 23 manager, an under 18s manager, a womens team manager and more. To expect Jack Ross to manage every area of a club that big would be totally unrealistic. Bringing in someone like Richard Hill will allow Ross time to focus on the first team squad while Hill gets on with the restructuring and recruiting.

 

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1 hour ago, linwood buddie said:

I think Jacks biggest job just now will be sorting out the squad , some of these guys are only silly money and probably the ego's that go with it , this will be something totally new to him and his first big challenge at Sunderland.

Agreed. Jack Rodwell fot starters has been happy to take his sizable wedge of cash whilst refusing to play football. Kone has wanted out for over a year but has had no takers. Khazri has been out on loan at Rennes and will play in the World Cup Finals, getting good money for him will be a key to a bigger transfer budget. Djillabodji and Cattermole are on a lot of money too. Cattermole is a bit of a Sunderland legend. And John O'Sheas contract has expired but he wants to stay. 

Even in the backroom team Kevin Ball is hugely respected and loved at the club. Ball looks like being reappointed to the Academy Managers role. Imagine Ross trying to tell him how he wants drills done. 

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6 hours ago, StuD said:

As I said Big Sam would have been most Sunderland's fans first choice. Ex player, successful ex manager who kept the club up when they looked dead and buried, and his career at Sunderland cut short because England wanted him. 

I don't think it's pessimism, its pragmatism. Lets say the job came up in six months time, with St Mirren struggling to beat the drop. Do you think Ross would have been Sunderlands big target? He's moving at exactly the right moment for him - but that's not necessarily a good thing for Sunderland. 

Also not necessarily a bad thing, seems like bad is your automatic assumption.

Also that reasoning can be applied to any in job manager on the planet. Again it’s strange there is an element of negativity to a manager that we owe a great deal of thanks to. 

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5 hours ago, StuD said:

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/richard-hill-to-join-sunderland-but-stewart-donald-rejects-suggestions-of-first-team-involvement-1-9181313

I got it from here. His former Director of Football has been brought in as an advisory role but he won't have any involvement in the first team. 

Its not a surprise. A club like Sunderland will have an Academy Manager, an Under 23 manager, an under 18s manager, a womens team manager and more. To expect Jack Ross to manage every area of a club that big would be totally unrealistic. Bringing in someone like Richard Hill will allow Ross time to focus on the first team squad while Hill gets on with the restructuring and recruiting.

 

No one said or hinted that Jack ross would be the Under 18s and Woman’s manager. There is no professional team in England where that’s a thing. What you said previously and what you’re saying now/ that article & video says isn’t the same thing. 

Theres a difference between a first team coach and a football manager (and the difference isn’t managing the under 21 woman’s team) 

you said Jack Ross would likely be more of a first team coach and the other guy will deal with football matters.

Everything to come from Sunderland says  he’ll be the manager and will have power over first team football matters (who comes in who goes out). That’s what a football manager is.

If you meant as in he wouldn’t be the one picking the U18s, U15s and taking the training for the ladies team, that’s not something you made clear in the slightest haha 

i just seen the bottom bit about recruitment. I know you don’t seem to like it but it looks 100% accurate that Jack Ross has the control over recruitment. Advisors don’t have control over recruitment... they may advise on it but not control it. Clues kinda in the job title. 

Edited by bazil85

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

No one said or hinted that Jack ross would be the Under 18s and Woman’s manager. There is no professional team in England where that’s a thing. What you said previously and what you’re saying now/ that article & video says isn’t the same thing. 

Theres a difference between a first team coach and a football manager (and the difference isn’t managing the under 21 woman’s team) 

you said Jack Ross would likely be more of a first team coach and the other guy will deal with football matters.

Everything to come from Sunderland says  he’ll be the manager and will have power over first team football matters (who comes in who goes out). That’s what a football manager is.

If you meant as in he wouldn’t be the one picking the U18s, U15s and taking the training for the ladies team, that’s not something you made clear in the slightest haha 

i just seen the bottom bit about recruitment. I know you don’t seem to like it but it looks 100% accurate that Jack Ross has the control over recruitment. Advisors don’t have control over recruitment... they may advise on it but not control it. Clues kinda in the job title. 

So far its Donald who is doing the recruiting. I doubt Ross recruited Hill. I doubt Ross will be discussing job titles with Kevin Ball. Ross won't be recruiting the Academy Manager or any of the coaches there. That has been perfectly clear. Ross is in charge of first team affairs only. Im a bit happier about that

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Also not necessarily a bad thing, seems like bad is your automatic assumption.

Also that reasoning can be applied to any in job manager on the planet. Again it’s strange there is an element of negativity to a manager that we owe a great deal of thanks to. 

Why would it be strange. Im a Sunderland fan. I want to see Sunderland be leading lights

 in football winning trophies whilst having strong community links. And its my opinion Ross was a poor choice

Edited by StuD

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

Why would it be strange. Im a Sunderland fan. I want to see Sunderland be leading lights

 in football winning trophies whilst having strong community links. And its my opinion Ross was a poor choice

That was a lot on here opinion also. That Ross was a poor and cheap choice. Look how that worked out...

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5 hours ago, DougJamie said:

That was a lot on here opinion also. That Ross was a poor and cheap choice. Look how that worked out...

Did he restructure the football club from the ground up to ensure increased revenue and on field success for years to come? 

Just winning promotion from a division where they are one of the leagues biggest spenders won't be enough at Sunderland. 

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1 hour ago, StuD said:

Did he restructure the football club from the ground up to ensure increased revenue and on field success for years to come? 

Just winning promotion from a division where they are one of the leagues biggest spenders won't be enough at Sunderland. 

He was here 18 months not 26 years like Fergie. Why do u dislike Ross and Saints relative success last season. Are you just so bitter because your "other" team has self imploded. 

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9 hours ago, StuD said:

So far its Donald who is doing the recruiting. I doubt Ross recruited Hill. I doubt Ross will be discussing job titles with Kevin Ball. Ross won't be recruiting the Academy Manager or any of the coaches there. That has been perfectly clear. Ross is in charge of first team affairs only. Im a bit happier about that

Donald is the chairman. Of course he’s going to deal with an aspect of background staff. I couldn’t name a manager that has come in and had the say on people like directors of football, advisers, background staff at that level. I don’t know why you were even worried about any aspect of that because it doesn’t really happen unless it’s maybe a manager that’s been in a job years and year. 

Ross like most managers will have power over all player acquisitions and coaching staff like Fowler. He may be advised on it but from all communications he has no less or no more power than most manager that’ll take a job this summer. I doubt our new manager could come in and say ‘get rid of Tony for example’ 

Really struggling with what your point is here and what you thought Ross might be coming in to do and what you now think he’s doing. 

Again it’s curious wording that you’re ‘happy’ in your head Jack Ross has less power than you thought. Can tell you really aren’t a fan at all. 

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9 hours ago, StuD said:

Why would it be strange. Im a Sunderland fan. I want to see Sunderland be leading lights

 in football winning trophies whilst having strong community links. And its my opinion Ross was a poor choice

It’s strange because your opinion seems to vary from the majority of Sunderland fans that don’t also support St Mirren and overwhelmingly from St Mirren fans. It’s a staple negative approach. And let’s be honest given your history on here, negativity is kinda your go to. 

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2 hours ago, StuD said:

Did he restructure the football club from the ground up to ensure increased revenue and on field success for years to come? 

Just winning promotion from a division where they are one of the leagues biggest spenders won't be enough at Sunderland. 

Did you really expect anymore in the short time he was here that saving us from relegation then immediately getting us promotion? And people say you’re never happy... 

we also had a smaller budget than four teams. Falkirk, ICT, Dunfermline and United. He won the league by 12 points with an average budget. Not sure if that’s what you’re eluding to or that after league 1, he doesn’t have the ability to be a quality championship/ EPL manager. Again it would be a negative assumption. 

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4 hours ago, DougJamie said:

He was here 18 months not 26 years like Fergie. Why do u dislike Ross and Saints relative success last season. Are you just so bitter because your "other" team has self imploded. 

Fergie wasn't at St Mirren for 26 years yet his contacts and his structure endured the clubs success for a decade.

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4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Donald is the chairman. Of course he’s going to deal with an aspect of background staff. I couldn’t name a manager that has come in and had the say on people like directors of football, advisers, background staff at that level. I don’t know why you were even worried about any aspect of that because it doesn’t really happen unless it’s maybe a manager that’s been in a job years and year. 

Ross like most managers will have power over all player acquisitions and coaching staff like Fowler. He may be advised on it but from all communications he has no less or no more power than most manager that’ll take a job this summer. I doubt our new manager could come in and say ‘get rid of Tony for example’ 

Really struggling with what your point is here and what you thought Ross might be coming in to do and what you now think he’s doing. 

Again it’s curious wording that you’re ‘happy’ in your head Jack Ross has less power than you thought. Can tell you really aren’t a fan at all. 

It was you who said 

Quote

i just seen the bottom bit about recruitment. I know you don’t seem to like it but it looks 100% accurate that Jack Ross has the control over recruitment. Advisors don’t have control over recruitment... they may advise on it but not control it. Clues kinda in the job title. 

I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't and I'm quite happy about this. Jack Ross will have enough on his plate trying to look after the first team at Sunderland. The restructuring of the club -  the most important part of the job IMO - will be done by Stewart Donald and his advisor and mate Richard Hill. I'm considerably happier about that. 

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