The Original 59er

Bud the Baker posted: “And in the naked light I sawTen thousand people, maybe morePeople talking without speakingPeople hearing without listeningPeople writing words that voices never shareNo one dareDisturb the sound of silence"

It's funny, we have 27 pages of John Sutton returning.................................. Ahem is this the best we can do. Maybe I'm alone in thinking I've seen the best of John Sutton, and maybe I'm alone in the camp that says; "thanks but no thanks". I am not a great fan of bringing someone back just because he did ok for us at some time in the semi-distant past. Well I might change that if the player was a true supporter of our club, but it's obvious that JS is out to find the best deal he can as the sun sets, and with the best will in the world JS has never been a fan of St Mirren. I would vote: Move on.

Basic legal approach in the UK (as opposed to the US where they can apply 'buyer beware') is that even if you know there is an adjacent facility it is the responsibility of the facility to keep their house in order. E.G. if your next door neighbour is a golf course and even though you bought the house knowing there is a golf course there, it is the responsibility of the golf course to stop golf balls landing in the adjacent property and thus cause a nuisance. The same applies to football pitches, or for that matter an industrial concern, and that would stretch to an increase in noise or unsocial behaviour.

So you buy your house and invest all your savings in whatever street in Paisley and you have a nice elderly quiet next door neighbour who after 6 months sells up to go and live with her daughter in Australia and she sells to the highest bidder, who turns out to be a dealer in unknown goods, comes from a background of dubious circumstances and allows his kids to shout and swear in the back garden each and every day, unchecked. So what do you do about the stream of profanities you hear? Go round and put your case diplomatically and appeal to the gentleman's better side and ask him politely to temper the children's excesses? I suggest that you might just have a small problem. Now you have a real issue, as your day to day enjoyment of your property is being eroded as is your property value. As I have eluded, if it is occurring frequently the near neighbours of the facility have a right to complain and if they feel they are getting nowhere with the club then the next step is the Council noise abatement officer who will assess the position and then act. The Club don't want that hassle, so it is in their interest to temper it down and discourage the excesses.

Looking at aerial maps you might argue that 19 households could have a logical argument that they hear what is shouted or said loudly over the back of their well tended rear hedges. Wind assisted or not, no matter the use, even if was not training / football pitches but a golf course, or a playground what ever the use, a neighbour has a right to complain to the local authority if there is a nuisance being created on adjoining property (and swearing loudly or repeatedly would come into that sphere of argument). Rangers do not have any residential properties within any distance that people could hear unless they use a tannoy system and sing "the sash" over loudspeakers (as members of a certain golf club did once and needless to say the neighbours complained!!!). Swearing is a form of words within any language where profane words are uttered, usually for effect or frequently used in anger. "However, it is wrong to presume from this case that there are no languages that have no swear words. The transition of words from daily use to taboo comes at a significant sociolinguistic cost and one that society would not pay unless the language had a mechanism to ensure a constant supply of new words to replace those that have become unusable due to their taboo nature. (i.e we now use 'vagina' to do the job 'c*nt' once did in Chaucer's day)". We are naturally proud of the English language as it tends to evolve with the times and also with the introduction of new phrases and languages that come into our country, but that doesn't get away from the fact that words can and do become unacceptable to the human ear and accordingly are not used in day and daily language as they are considered taboo. So for potentially 19 households in Ralston they have a right to expect not to hear a barrage of profanities on a consistent basis and if it is happening on such a basis then the Club should act and ensure that they are not the source of the nuisance.

I've never seen a thread go so off topic and become a personal slanging match as this one................................... does the word "snob" have anything to do with it by any chance: "a person with an exaggerated respect for high social position or wealth who seeks to associate with social superiors and looks down on those regarded as socially inferior. a person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people." Basically I don't think the majority of people around Ralston are 'snobs' if they are, then they are social climbing out of a pretty low place in the first place. The main point of the thread is the swearing that is reputed to have taken place and whether they should have to accept it on a frequent basis? Unless I'm mistaken no-one on this website would tolerate a frequent neighbour openly shouting swear words especially if there are kids around. It's basically unacceptable behaviour............ if indeed it is occurring at all.

Sadly the kids nowadays don't just hear it in the playground, you hear it regularly on the BBC (e.g. Have I got news for you over the weekend) when the F word was openly used. It's a bit like bastardising the English language, which is regularly throttled by many tv pundits, both north and south of the border. Once allowed it becomes part of the scenery. This isn't isolated either, many more programmes and songs now openly use swearing in the context of normal language. That isn't an argument however in condoning it, and as it has been said, a swear word in context or as a reaction is almost tolerable and probably understandable, no matter the age. I can imagine that there will be occasions however when it isn't checked at Ralston and as a result, once they use it and get away with it, then habitually they will continue to swear.

McAvennie,Fitzy,Iain Munro,DVZ,Jim Blair,Tommy Bryceland to name a few more. I can add Jim Clunie to that list.

It's always interesting to see who is quoted to re-join us, even if they had been with us a short while, were successful (to a degree), or not as the case may be, and how long ago. I've never been a great fan of re-tracing your steps, there are plenty of players out there who are younger, hungrier and perhaps more committed to trying to improve themselves rather than taking the final last buck before they retire into the sunset......................

I'll lay a bet that quite a number of teams in that league will pay more than us to their players! Chairman Wrexham Supporters' Trust Highest home attendance 6,706 vs Tranmere (06 Oct 15) Lowest home attendance 3,511 vs Bromley (13 Feb 16) Average home league attendance 4,614

get a dose of reality............. Northampton Town, Oxford Utd or Bristol Rovers all three having won promotion from Div 2 England to Div 1 would be a really good test.

No longer a rumour....................... It's a fact!

Guys, get a life. Through the years we have signed players from both Celtic and Rangers, and on many occasions these players have openly been supporters of the same clubs and when not plying their trade with Saints (and doing it perfectly well) they no doubt would attend Celtic of Rangers games with their mates........ the only difference being that they weren't captured on film or camera. If our whole squad supported either of the old firm, I wouldn't give a toss, as long as when they pull on the black & white stripes, or climb into the dugout they are giving it their all for their employer. Close the thread, it's digging for digging's sake.

Further exacerbated by Bosman which killed it for teams like Saints who depended on the chance to take in a player from a lower league or team and let them develop a liitle then sell them up the tree a bit, or to a club in England. That has gone and the player, more particularly their agents now dictate the terms, when they will leave, who they will go to and for how much, leaving teams like Saints with only a youth set-up to hopefully bring on the odd player who might make the grade.

As much as it pains me to say it, SD has made a pretty reasonable argument that the level of player now being produced through the youth system in Scotland is average compared to the past. Where is the vision, where is the trickery, where is the devastating pass. Yes McLean, McGinn and Mallan are maybe a cut above a number of other youths coming through the youth system, but they don't hold a candle to some of the 18 to 22 year olds' I remember from the 60's, 70's and early 80's. Stevie Mallan would probably do himself some good by staying with Saints one more year and developing a bit more and then Saints let him move on up the tree a bit, be it with Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen or a 3rd tier club in England, because yes that is the level of the Premier division in Scotland. Personally if I had a kid that was as 'talented' as any of the three above I wouldn't advise any of them to move to either of the Glasgow bigots as they would then become fringe players with little game time, and they would become tainted with the ever-lasting smell that pervades east and west Glasgow. Where McGinn & McLean have gone at least allows them to develop under a slightly bigger club background without the unnecessary pressures that are added playing for either of the Glasgow twins. Where I do disagree with SD however, is that I wouldn't remotely advise SM to sign or consider signing for a team like Dundee, who are no better in structure than Saints and have a history of over-spending and see-sawing between the leagues.

I was directly in line with our defence for Raith's first goal.......... he was off-side by at least 1 metre when the pass came through but the linesman (assistant ref nowadays) was some 10 or 15 metres back from the line as it was a quick break up field. It was a howler by him, but it was noticeable that Saints hardly complained or made any kind of point to the ref or his assistant, so maybe they thought he was on-side - who knows!

Smithers Jones - I suspect you have been tooooooo ruthless there - I can't see 80% of the current playing staff disappearing!

From what I've seen this season and especially last night: Jamie Langfield - Keep (just - not that impressed overall, but needs a good back-up to challenge) Daniel Wilks - Probably Keep but I haven't seen too much of him in action Jason Naismith - Keep Sean Kelly - Keep Andy Webster - Not sure, pretty unimpressive last night - maybe told to punt it upfield, apperaed to have little or no composure, probably a Keep Jack Baird - Keep, Just as he's young and has much to learn - lost confidence last night Keith Watson - Keep Jordan Stewart - Keep Gary Irvine - Keep Jim Goodwin - Like to keep, but will probably go Alan Gow - Punt Stuart Carswell - Punt Cameron Howieson - Probably will go - he's one of these players that I think if given more of a run could have been successful Stephen Mallan - Keep Scott Agnew - Punt just an no more - has good points but too inconsistent Lewis Morgan - Probably keep Lewis McLear - Probably keep Barry Cuddihy - Punt Alex Cooper - On last night's perfomance he couldn't beat a carpet never mind his opposite number - punt Kyle McAllister - keep Rocco Quinn - Unsure Cal Gallagher - Keep David Clarkson - Keep Lawrence Shankland - Keep Stevey Thompson - Sadly Punt

That was dire to watch last night......................... Not just the Saints performance, which was especially dire, but overall it was a terrible advert for a game called football. The Ball was in the air half the time and almost 90% of the time it was an aimless up in the air punt, or header. I find it hard to motivate myself to return this season as there is virtually nothing left to play for, other than a headlong dive back into the relegation tussle. God it was depressing, not helped by a linesman (sorry assistant referee) not keeping up with play and missing a blatant offside then compounding it in the 2nd half with yet more bad decisions, including not giving offside against Saints when again he was far behind play. Dreadful in all departments................. watching paint dry came close to being preferable. P.S. if that's 4th place secured for Raith playing at that standard I can only hope we can raise our game next season to match it, or should I say better it!

Had a few dealings with AM throughout the years, always found him straightforward and relatively easy to deal with. Does a lot of charity work behind the scenes. No complaints from this department if he wants to train, lend a hand, get fit, whatever with Saints.

In answer to the heading for this thread....................... naah

He comes with a better reputation than a few we have signed and he has scored for each club that he has played for until he went back to Motherwell, where he has only played 7 times. Personally pleased with this signing and hopefully it works for both him and Rae.............. and of course the fans!

A partner once said to me: "you can go to the well to drink once, but if you go back a second time don't expect me to welcome you back"! An understanding kind of person I thought. ............................ but going back for 12 years CP must have been mighty thirsty!

Today, and only today, Eddi Reader - The Songs of Robert Burns.......... 'ae fond kiss' is away up there as a great love song. Back to LA Woman by the Doors tomorrow!

One of Maggie's great 'admirers'....................... that puts him the camp of being decidedly unpleasant, and from the article about his daughter............ nothing more to add!