The Original 59er

Shull, Thanks for posting this, it's good to see the Cup from the very start of the campaign rather than just when the 'big' teams enter the fray. Hope that the results keep getting posted each round as I seem to miss them in the Monday catch up of all the footie results. I think it's great that the juniors are now in the mix it puts them into perspective with the Highland League and other leagues affiliated with the SFA. No re-run of our close result with Glasgow Uni this year then!

I look forward to the early retirement of Mr Alex Smugness. He may have been a committed nationalist from his early career but his performance in the last two years has been woefully short of gravitas, humility and manners. At last the West Lothian question will be aired properly and that will test how the UK will react to the future. Interesting that a Scottish Referendum has managed to bring that issue to the fore.

Bud, yes I was there that day. Stood in the standing section of the main stand just beside the the vomitory where the players came out onto the pitch. We were riding high in the league at the time and from memory it was a dank, murky, foggy day and Rangers were coming to Love St to put us in our place. Hughie Gilshan was a product of the Juniors - Johnstone Burgh if I recall correctly and he was a real in and out player, you never quite got that consistent form, but on that day, he wrote his name into Saint's history books. I think the game was very nearly not played due to the fog, but I remember that as being the epitome of the team at that time, coming good at certain times and taking the scalp of a team that competed well in Europe. Crowds in these days were very good and even a Motherwell or Aberdeen would see us attract 7 or 8,000 to a game.

1966-67 was pretty rank. We went down for the first time in 30 years and to make matters worse Morton came up in our place! However we did come back up the following year as champions Back down in 70-71 and as seasons went by, in 73-74 we finished 11th in the 2nd tier. To put it into modern context that's 29th in the rankings, so basically in today's third level of football in Scotland. 74-75 saw us scrape into the new divisional set-up as the last club out of the old second division, so we now in the new 2nd tier, but in the smaller league arrangement. The following year we finished 6th in that new league (16th overall). Bingo we won the 2nd division the year later and we were back in the big time. So if you want to really complain look back in anger at the miss-management and care of the club in these years. It was pretty woeful and painful to watch and also to observe how the club was being run. There have been many, many years and teams that are so much worse than today's club, so please don't try and compare reasonably tasty apples with rotten bananas, it doesn't bear thinking about. If you are a true fan, you go along and you take the thick with the thin, the huge difference now is that the fan in the street (i.e. me) has got this outlet to let off steam. In these days, I can tell you I stood on the terracing and winced and shouted and rubbished the team in voice, but never in writing, but I still came back for more. Why? - Because I loved St Mirren, and still do with a passion. It was dead easy in these days to get on the bus and go up to the fortresses of Ibrox and Parkhead and watch teams that won and competed well in Europe. Many did and deserted the club in the dark days, if you were a real fan however you always looked for the and desperately wanted a day in the sun. Round it came in 86-87 and boy was THAT worth waiting for So I probably have a year or two on a number that post here, but all I'll say is keep the faith, support the team and tomorrow WILL be a better day.

I would opine that a footie manager's job has to be potentially the worst type of contractual appointment that anyone could ever seek! Take David Moyes as an example. For several years he was touted as probably the most astute and grounded manager in the Premier League and then slipped quietly into the hot seat in Manchester by the former boss and BoD's as being the natural successor. Of course no-one looked hard at the quality of player that he had been left, or did they release the purse strings (to the tune of £104m) to allow him the luxury of a new team, no, his predecessor has left him a 'winning team' and formula that he of course had to follow. I mention the above simply to say, that even the perceived best in the field can be made to look foolish. So in the fantasy world that some of our posters live in, if David Moyes was offered the job at St Mirren Park, would he be welcomed with open arms as being a "fantastic appointment", or deemed to be such a failure, (that no matter whether he stopped chips on a Friday night or not!), he would be damned from the outset. I suspect many would plump for the latter. So how does this relate to our present incumbent. Well we lost a number of players, some of which needed to go and others perhaps needed a fresh challenge. So TC has had to build a new team and approach with a VERY limited budget. Personally I'd like to see him turn it round and start getting both the breaks and also the players putting in 100% and playing to their true potential week on week. I know many will say that a footie manager is extremely well remunerated for his efforts and that it is a results business. However his position very much relies on others carrying out his instructions and if they don't perform as team players then the results eventually reflect on the management as being the culprits. I vote for giving him time to see if the whole team can turn it around.

John McGinn playing standoff, next they'll be putting up funny shaped posts with nae nets at Greenhill and we'll be encouraging the players to shoot the ball over the bar! Come to think of it maybe Jim Goodwin's tackles may then all become legal. Bring on the rugby, I say ...................!!!!!!!!!!

Or maybe I'm too I would love to agree with you Shull, but.............................................

Sh*t ........................................ cover blown!

Ok, if anyone had ANY doubts that we don't need a no nonsense CH then surely Saturday and immediately preceding games will have changed their minds. What I don't get is that successive managers have clung to the belief that Marc is the answer, when clearly compared to virtually every other central back in the league he is well short of standards required to shore up a defence. I'm not asking for a Gordon McQueen, or a Billy McNeil, all I'm asking for is a big lad who can play a bit, can clear the lines and give the defence some confidence that ensures that we don't just leak goals. The attack comes under pressure from the fact that we give away goals and they in turn become edgy knowing they must score more against the opposition than our defence is leaking at a vast rate. If, as several have argued, he is played continually due to the fact he has relations in higher places, then it's a sad day. That has got to stop and if it takes a strong manager and some harsh words then so be it. SOMETHING HAS GOT TO CHANGE at the back!

If he / she has been snapped coming out of Gregg's already then they will have no doubt taken on the shape of most customers of that retail outlet.................................... I'd prefer my CH's to be lithe and fit thanks very much.

Reasonable point, but he is prone to elementary errors. Any time I watched him last season, I squirmed in my seat waiting for the basic mistake. Sometimes he had a cracking good game, others he lost confidence, or concentration and made a howler. If he was a really good CH then yes he may be off to pastures better paid, and yes there are others who are worse, but I would just like to see an experienced hand next to him for a couple of seasons who bring him along and knock the basic errors out of his game. Then we would get the benefit of these two seasons, then good luck to the lad on the higher platform.

Anything else you'd care to add? I've hunners.......................... Calm down, calm down............................................................... it's only a game of footie!

The Development team played in the new strip last night against Celtic. Visually it wasn't as bad as I first imagined, however I would say that it would have been slightly difficult if it was a televised game as the strips weren't that different from a distance - the main difference between the two being our black socks to their white, otherwise they looked predominantly white or light in shading and a camera might have had difficulty in distinguishing................................ or maybe it's just my failing old eyesight!

It was a good game at Crappielow last night. To be fair, Celtic probably had the upper hand overall, but we had good periods of play when we were on top. We scored against the run of play but it was a good move down the left which left the Celtic defence exposed. Their equaliser was probably deserved, but it was a clear mistake at the back that gifted it to them, other than that we looked pretty solid at the back with Sean Kelly playing a CH role or at least in the middle of defence. I thought the Celtic no. 5 was a very good prospect (team-sheet named him as Marcus Fraser) - read the game well, was comfortable on the ball and had the ability to break with the ball from defence and create danger at the opposite end. Mo Yaqub had a difficult night, but came through it quite well. He was up against a tricky winger who knew how to beat a player but Mo held his side of the field up quite well. I think we lack a finisher up front and I don't see another McLean or a McGinn coming through yet from midfield. The teamsheet was: 1.Dan Wilks 2.Mark Williams 3.Mo Yaqub 4.Declan Hughes 5.Seam Kelly 6.Jack Baird 7.Lewis McLear 8.Barry Cuddihy 9.Adam Brown 10.Keiran Doran 11.Robbie Mitchell Subs, Lewis Morgan, Conor Murray, Josh Beattie, Darren Whyte, Aidan Williams For all Celtic's pressure, we should have won the game in the last minute with two chances in front of a goal with only their keeper to beat. He pulled off an effective, but clumsy looking save and the game finished at 1-1. For once, the sun shone on Greenock!

Stuck record syndrome................................ many have been saying for at least two to three seasons we need (or would like) a no nonsense, non-liability, central defender. I appreciate they may be relatively thin on the ground but they can be found. Through the years we have has quite a few CH's that might fill that description: Jim Clunie (first time around), Bobby Reid, Gordon McQueen, Jack Copeland amongst others. Cuthbert more recently had some of the attributes, but maybe not all. I don't mind a loan for a season, or someone with good experience perhaps getting slightly on in their football career....... Willie Renton comes to mind, he played alongside McFadden, a pretty inexperienced young CH who he brought along and encouraged in each game. I tend to think that McAusland is exactly the same kind of player as McFadden, has attributes, but needs a good older experienced player alongside him to get rid of the basic mistakes. I think the over-riding feeling within the support is that we NEED another central defender as back-up or maybe even as first choice.

On reading the start of this post you might ask whether it has a relevance to the Independence question. However Radio Scotland ran a passably interesting article this morning on delivery costs for the more remote parts of Scotland and expectedly there was general condemnation of the VERY high costs for anything delivered north of Perth and west of Greenock. The point of this post is that I've argued for a very long period that basic petroleum products should be a standard rate throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. The bulk of the population lives in the south east or Midlands of England and if they can manage to keep the price of a litre of petrol or diesel down to a very competitive rate in these areas, then by adding a very small amount to their charge you could easily spread the cost of transport of these products to make the price standardised throughout the whole UK. If we vote "Yes" in September, I don't see that ever being possible, but more to the point I wonder how retailers or delivery companies will look on Scotland. Will we be a foreign country to them and as such entitle them to charge more for a standard delivery, never mind a more remote part of the country? Ireland is viewed as a foreign country and delivery charges are higher for both postal and general delivery items from the UK. So my question is, (albeit a relatively minor financial aspect) do we mind the fact that it will cost us more to get anything sent from the internet or delivered by a retailer to an independent foreign country?

I'd prefer not to pigeon-hole players due to their social up-bringing (or preponderance for youthful, sports attire), more to see what they can bring to the party on the field. Yes a certain player last season, well and truly blotted his copy-book and finished up in front of the beaks - got caught red-handed, so to speak, and suffered the consequences. I suppose you might call him a 'Ned' under such circumstances, but others may describe it as selfish, totally uncalled for behaviour or a cry for help - whichever way you look at it, he crossed a line, but to label him is inappropriate. I look back over the years and we have had many players you may not want round the dinner table with you, or anywhere near your daughter, but a large percentage of these miscreants have preformed on the park - the aforementioned Tommy Bryceland being one. Let's concentrate on the positives - he's a young player that can score good goals, has others saying he has potential and he hasn't cost the club a fortune (he also has a point to prove - a little like Mr Wylde), so let's judge him after a run in the 1st team and how he blends into the team and generally portrays himself to the ever-faithful, well-informed fans that turn up week on week!

Maybe we'll score more goals in the 11th hour and the 59th minute!

ned (nɛd) — n slang , derogatory ( Scot ) a young working-class male who dresses in casual sports clothes Now, let's be accurate about this, if you want to call him a 'Ned' be sure that the word fits, as the description above tends to suggest that there is nothing really intrinsically wrong with a 'ned' as such. His choice to wear "casual sports clothes". However as several contributors have pointed out Saints have over the years had a questionable number of players donning the jersey who may not have had the benefit of a good education, a good up-bringing, or occasionally tangled with the boys in blue. That hasn't stopped them going on to have good football brains and abilities that allow them to make a decent living out of kicking a ball about a grass park. Not every player who wears black and white has 5 advanced highers at 'A' grade and can put sentences together either on line or over the media, but I'll tell you what, I'll sing his praises from the rooftop if he tries hard, contributes to the team and also scores the odd goal here and there. Welcome to the Saints, Ross and ignore the timewasters and do your talking on the park.

I really don't understand some so-called Saint's supporters They slag off a player before they have seen them in action, they over-analyse their records, they assume the Conference football level is far below SPL level - all of which is out of order. By all means criticise the player once he has say 6 to 10 games under his belt and has proved no more useful than a sack of spuds, or criticise the management for 'investing' in such a player, but don't start before you have even seen him kick a ball. Secondly, accept Scottish football is a way down the pecking order in relation to the standards in the English leagues. It would be a very interesting situation if the UK was the country and we all played in the same league structure - I guess that not many so-called good Scottish teams would figure in the top 3 leagues in England. Just because our leagues get mentioned more in national news, or round-ups doesn't make the football any better than say League 2 or 3 level in England. Lastly, accept that managing St Mirren is a question of working a VERY tight budget, using your skills to scour the marketplace and come up occasionally with some better players, if not gems. I've said it before, Saints made many forays into the Junior ranks in the past to pick up players who subsequently went on to have very good careers. Why they don't do it now surprises me a little - maybe some think the Junior ranks are filled with has-beens or failed SPL players - which personally I don't think is the case - so maybe a little dip into the Conference Leagues isn't a bad thing. It's been said before - I'll give every player my support that pulls on a Saints top (even if it's a boorach of a design!).

That's the problem with society, you give a 10 year old the freedom to access the freedom of the internet, place a keyboard in front of him / her and hey presto, you have a scoop! Why don't you just throw any old random name you see playing mediocre football at the Coupe du Monde and conjecture that they too might wend their way up to Paisley for a game?

Sorry forgot about Alex Smith.............................. Pts available: 198 Pts won: 85 Percentage 42.9% P.S. - He also won a cup, and he also was let go - it isn't a guarantee for anyone if you just win a cup!

Hold on a second................................ Can we please put DL's record into context! If you apply the exact same points awarded system of 2 pts for a win, one for a draw and none for a loss over the past 12 managers that St. Mirren have had, it puts DL into the context that we should judge his record. Not just because he won a cup, albeit that was a terrific day. For the record the following reflects the percentage points won by each manager during their term of office: 1st Jim Clunie: Pts available: 284 Pts won: 163 Percentage: 57.4% 2nd Willie Cunninghoam: Pts available: 274 Pts won: 151 Percentage: 55.1% 3rd Alex Ferguson: Pts available: 246 Pts won: 134 Percentage: 54.5% 4th Wilson Humphries: Pts available: 174 Pts won: 90 Percentage: 51.7% 5th Ricky McFarlane: Pts available: 196 Pts won: 99 Percentage: 50.5% 6th Gus McPherson: Pts available: 578 Pts won: 285 Percentage: 49.3% 7th Tom Hendrie: Pts available: 306 Pts won: 148 Percentage: 48.4% 8th Alex Miller: Pts available: 286 Pts won: 135 Percentage: 47.2% 9th Tony Fitzpatrick: Pts available: 364 Pts won: 164 Percentage: 45.1% 10th Danny Lennon: Pts available: 358 Pts won: 154 Percentage: 43% 11th Jimmy Bone: Pts available: 154 Pts won: 65 Percentage: 41.6% 12th and not surprisingly last: John Coughlin: Pts available: 106 Pts won: 42 Percentage: 39.62% I adopted the exact same points system for all as the 3 points for a win would probably not have been available to all, so the percentage success rate is the same for all. So despite all the vitriol that Danny has been hard done to etc., etc. the record speaks plainly for itself, he is the 3rd worst manager in terms of results over the past 44 years! The BoD's have weighed this up along with his signing policy and come to the logical conclusion, he hasn't taken the club forward. The stats don't lie!

So no surprises there then! As previously posted Saints often look to within to appoint a new manager, and they have done so again. There have been numerous posts saying that this is a cost cutting exercise and that DL has had a bad deal...................... sorry I don't get that argument. DL proved time and again that whilst he had many qualities they were limited in terms of being able to take the team forward and his signing policies left huge amounts of question marks. If you want to talk about wasting money, then look no further than many of the players that have been signed then very quickly shown the door without doing any worthwhile work for the club. If you think back to the era of Ricky McFarlane............... who would ever have thought that we would appoint our Club physiotherapist as the manager, but that is what we did............. can you imagine the vitriol if the BoD's had done the same today? Just as an added bit of interest here is a summary of the 1982/83 season during his term of office: 1982-83 Saints visited the Isle of Man prior to the start of the season and played a glamour friendly against Sunderland. Goals from Lex Richardson and Frank McAvennie gave Saints a great 2-1 win. Richardson continued his scoring exploits when the competitive action started with a hat-trick in the opening League Cup tie against Ayr United in a 3-1 win. That set Saints up for anther crack at a quarter final, but after a 1-1 draw in the first leg they lost 2-1 to Hearts in the return. Again it was the Scottish Cup that kept the interest going through the season with Dundee United, Morton and Airdrie knocked out, setting up a semi final with Rangers. For the second season in a row a replay was needed following a 1-1 draw. In the replay Rangers were awarded a very controversial goal when it was not clear if the ball had actually crossed the line. Saints players on the line claim it was cleared and TV pictures appear to back up that argument. However saints were out again in controversial circumstances! League form remained unspectacular and again a top five finish was achieved. The final sentence sums it up rather well - a TOP 5 finish but the league form was unspectacular yet by August '83 we had yet another manager - even a top 5 finish isn't good enough it seems! - I seem to remember that Ricky also had his profession to fall back on and that in many ways he didn't mind going back to that as opposed to managing a football team - even tho' it was a successful team at the time. No DL had his chance, he provided a fantastic day at Hampden but ultimately his inability to take the team onwards in the league and his errant policy in signings have been his undoing. I do not like some sections of the press saying that we have been harsh or dealt with DL shabbily. It wasn't as tho' we cut his contract from under his feet, it wasn't as tho' we didn't give him the chance, - in this day of football manager's being binned at every opportunity (e.g. Fulham or Tottenham Hotspur's approach) we actually gave him 4 years to progress the team - I would argue that in overall terms we have made limited progress in that time. I'll support the team no matter who is manager - I don't forget the dark days of the 60's and 70's when we had a variety of manager's, crappy teams and floundered in the 2nd tier of Scottish football, but I still supported them throughout and still do fervently to this day. So good luck Tommy, Jim & Gary, enjoy the roller coaster!

Back in March I posted this..................my thoughts haven't changed much! Posted by The Original 59er on 18 March 2014 - 10:41 in General St. Mirren Discussion I've said it before and I'll repeat it for the sake of consistency...................... St Mirren's BoD's have virtually never jumped onto an experienced manager 'ship' when they have taken the decision to sack the incumbent Manager. The track record tends to suggest we will appoint an up-and-coming manager from a lower league who has cut his teeth on promotion / good cup run / getting the best out of an inexperienced squad etc, etc...................................... come to think of it, a little like the DL of 3 or 4 years ago or alternatively from within. As much as DL has had some limited success (which is obvious to the eye) he has pretty much failed in the league stats. There is a general feeling that we have a squad that should at least be competing for the top 6, but at the very worst be sitting 7th comfortably. Year on year we are making NO PROGRESS. The team has leaked important goals at the back, we seem to let certain players go then not replace them with anything better and we also lack the ability to hit any kind of consistent form. In saying all this, the BoD's have to take any punches that are aimed at them squarely on the chin, as the writing has been on the wall for a significant period and they have stuck their collective heads in the sand and hoped that the storm would pass over......................... (sorry, probably far too many idioms). Sorry this storm isn't passing over and their reticence to act when to a huge proportion of our fans the Manager is not getting the best out of the resources, means that they, probably more so than DL, should shoulder the main part of the blame as to why we are sitting 2nd bottom. I predict nothing will happen on the Managerial front until the end of the season, .................... I only pray that it won't be too late. Sweaty roller-coaster ride coming up,.............. anyone got the sick bucket?