Big Fras

If the rumours of disharmony among the consortium are true then it may be the only post RA will be able to stand for, unless he stumps up some of his own money.

Sid,
Please show me where I said such a thing. I simply have not, even for one minute, suggested that an open debate will damage the CIC.
What I did say was that during the course of the online CIC discussions, others have said your incessant posting on the subject, and constant putting down of other people's views, could do more damage to the CIC's online support, than the efforts of anti-CIC posters such as Yul Brynner could do. It wasn't something I had given much credence to - until recently.
I think it's a pretty shoddy forum tactic to put the boot into people's posts, and to give them a virtual dressing down - then when there's any comeback, simply say it's 'forum banter' or 'your irreverant style' and it was only a laugh. Stick a smiley at the end - didn't really mean to say you're a diddy who doesn't understand the CIC.... only a laugh, right? I actually don't think you are just playing the forum jester - I think you genuinely believe you are dealing with 'fannyslabbers' - and have a genuine superiority complex towards us lesser mortals (whether pro or anti CIC), who just don't grasp it like El Presidente Elect grasps it.
As I say, I hadn't given much credence to the view that you could put some of the online community off the CIC with your 'irreverant style', but as I said earlier, hmm, who knows? Without doubt I've allowed you to get under my skin, so I guess if it's going to be like this, I'd be better off taking a step back from discussing the CIC. Far from this being a 'dummy spitting' act, instead I'll just carry on doing what I'm doing - being supportive of the CIC and the club, working as best I can, lending my talents (such as they may be) to the club, and continue to work behind the scenes on ideas and projects that are actually seeing positive results come through. I certainly don't want to get into an extended online verbal spat with a fellow fan.... unless of course they post utter shite such as I think open debate will damage the CIC, or they think they can treat me like a fool and play the smiley card retrospectively.

Agreed, you are epitomy of absolutely perfect fat billigerent turdishness.

What an odd rant.
I have been throwing up some points for debate in this thread. Points that appear to find some agreement with other posters who are also supportive of the CIC. As stated previously, the time for "them and us" nonsense is over. We should all be going into this as St Mirren supporters and with the capacity to respect each others views. All this nonsense about doing more damage than Yul is pretty devisive. If you actually look back over the last couple of pages you will see that it was you that started the "seemingly saying" nonsense. I am clearly the intellectual alpha male of the forum, so I can understand your inferiority complex.
More than happy to engage with you in debate no matter what level, but don't go throwing the toys out of the pram and trying to switch the rules mid debate. It is that sort of nonsense that will damage the CIC, not playful banter between St Mirren supporting friends.
There are too many precious types blubbering about the CIC. The CIC is in a strong position with widespread support, bordering on being unanimous. On the fringes we have overly protective CIC supporters easily wound up by deranged CIC dissentors. As with all things the truth lies in the middle and was clear to be seen in all the public meetings. It is time for those fringes to quiet down and let the middle ground start debating the CIC sensibly.
You, like me and a few others have had privileged access to the CIC proposers. This was useful to initially put down the dafty rumours that abounded initially from an anti-CIC campaign. Those rumours were proven false through time and have now subsided. No credability is left in their nonsense. This should leave the ground open for a more detailed and open debate. Hysterical reactions and sulks will turn people off though. So sort yourself out and stop the precious nonsense.
Discussing how the CIC will progress is a positive thing to do. I don't see the reason for your continued defensiveness, when the dissention campaign is clearly dead in the water. Within these posts would you like to point out where the specific threat to the CIC actually is? Where is the post that will make over 700 CIC pledgers change their mind?
As Saints fans we all make errors in judgement, we can have our wee fallouts. However, we are all Saints fans first and foremost. No matter how dichotimised our views on certain subjects might become we can all put that to the side and enjoy the football together. When GG and SPS catch up at the game they will have a wee shake of hands and have a friendly chat about the game. Just as I will no doubt meet Yul and whoever at some point and enjoy chatting about our St Mirren supporting experiences. Pretty sure we'll have a wee laugh about B&WArmy.com too.
Online forums should be treated like informal courtrooms. The lawyers will fight their cases, but once out of the fighting pit they will go for a few beers or play a round of golf together or in our case watch St Mirren together and kick off the "who should be in goals" debate again. One lawyer might be a ferocious and determined prosecutor, one might be a conscientious defender of the accused rights. The debate can continue, but that is all it is....a line of reasoning where there is no absolute right or wrong - some will be guilty, some will be innocent - they might not always get justice - hey-ho. When the line of reasoning becomes the be all and end all for you then you lack professionalism and need to think about a new career. So mibbae you are war weary and do need to sit out the CIC forum for a wee while.
St Mirren and its supporters are far more important than a debate about the CIC. If the CIC weren't to happen the club and its supporters would still be there and our desire to keep it alive would be as crucial as ever as pointed out by SMiSA in the PDE article. Try to keep sight of that as much as we all want the CIC to happen.
You gingeys are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy.

St Sid.
You have convinced me about the presidency.
I vote for POZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited to add...............................

It's the Groucho club analogy.
If the most regular and consistent supporters of a club are Sid and Lost Ud - would you want to be a member?
: :

Macca earns a decent crust from after-dinner speaking these days. However, I can assure you from personal experience that if called upon to help out the Buds, as long as the situation was explained properly, he would be very well disposed towards doing us a favour. Don't be fooled by the tabloid image. He's a lot wiser these days, and a very nice chap indeed, and although c*ltic are his first love, he holds St.Mirren FC a lot dearer to his heart than is represented in the press.

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I suggest you revisit your PM BigFras. It appears you like to give out series of false statements as though they are fact when it suits you, but don't like it right back at you.
I am quite happy in my opinion that you are disingenuous, sneaky, underhand and creepy, so whilst you post that you have changed your mind on what was previously a very strong anti-CIC opinion to pro, whilst continuing to chip away at it from your faux position of support I feel comfortable in my view that your credability as far as I am concerned is in the shitter. Remember you stated in your PM that you were running an online campaign against a consortium member.
Like your last couple of overblown post I actually find your behaviour quite funny as you should be able to discern from the tone of my posts. Don't let that detract from the "outraged in Bolton" tone of your posts though - they are comedy gold.

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Pretty much agree with the above Div......but the info came from a very good source (ie. non-SMFC, ex-employer of mine who knows the BoD member). To be honest, it just sounds like a bit of frustration. Imagine waiting ages to sell your house for a decent fee, then the buyer asks for another time extension. You'd probably get a wee bit p*ssed off & frustrated, which is fair enough. Don't think there is much more to this to add.
Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment.......say the CIC bid failed (I don't think it will - but what do I know ?), then 2-3 months later another (revised ?) bid came in from a group of businessmen for say £1.2m (50% more than Gordon Smith's lot by all accounts). Would the BoD have no option but to accept, or would they carry on ? I just have a sneaking feeling that someone is watching developments at the club with interest, and if the CIC bid fails, the BoDs resolve/desperation could be tested. I stress that this is just hypothetical, and I think there is enough critical mass behind the CIc bid for it to succeed (although that is where the fun will really begin).

The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.
I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!
I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

Pretty much agree with the above Div......but the info came from a very good source (ie. non-SMFC, ex-employer of mine who knows the BoD member). To be honest, it just sounds like a bit of frustration. Imagine waiting ages to sell your house for a decent fee, then the buyer asks for another time extension. You'd probably get a wee bit p*ssed off & frustrated, which is fair enough. Don't think there is much more to this to add.
Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment.......say the CIC bid failed (I don't think it will - but what do I know ?), then 2-3 months later another (revised ?) bid came in from a group of businessmen for say £1.2m (50% more than Gordon Smith's lot by all accounts). Would the BoD have no option but to accept, or would they carry on ? I just have a sneaking feeling that someone is watching developments at the club with interest, and if the CIC bid fails, the BoDs resolve/desperation could be tested. I stress that this is just hypothetical, and I think there is enough critical mass behind the CIc bid for it to succeed (although that is where the fun will really begin).

Do you know what? I'd love to see that if for no other reason than pure spite. But the reality is that they HAVE got a purchaser who has agreed the £2m price in 10000 hours and I think it is probably a fair price. Don't get me wrong St Mirren FC as a brand is worth f**k all, but the asset is the stadium and the lease on the training ground. £4m for 100% looks reasonably accurate as a valuation of that to me.

Damn right they are and the benefits to St Mirren are potentially enormous too.
Months ago on here I tried to outline what my idea of what this should be and I cited the example of having 10 SFA Quality Mark football clubs from across the central belt as community members would be. Now I admit I was thinking market stall whilst Richard Atkinson is thinking about a national chain of supermarkets but the example is relevant on a small scale.
What I said back then was consider the set up. Lets say each of those 10 clubs have 10 teams each. In each team they'll have squads of approx 20 players (2,000 players in total), and to be quality marked they need at least one SFA Qualified level 2 or 3 coach per side and one SFA Qualified level 1 coach (200 qualified coaches in total)
Now as a small example consider St Mirren's kit deal. This year I would imagine that Provan Sports would have sold the equivelent of 2,000 kit units. Bundle in the kit order for each of those 10 clubs that are in partnership with you and you've doubled the size of the order - which gives you a bit more power to negotiate better volume discounts, or more up front money. The community club gets good quality kit and cheaper prices, and St Mirren get to increase their profit margin on a club consumable.
On top of that you've got 200 qualified coaches spread across Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire, West Lothian and maybe even further afield all of whom are watching football in their age groups every single week and who know their best players, and their oppositions best players. So that's your scouting network taken care of, Oh and if you fancy it there's also the potential for a St Mirren Football Academy in every major town throughout the central belt using those 200 coaches from the 10 clubs and the St Mirren branding to bring in income that can be shared between the juvenile club and St Mirren.
Going back the way St Mirren always have players going through their coaching certificates who are lacking in practical experience - yet in this model you've got 100 teams across a number of regions where your players can go out and gain practical coaching experience.
Want to boost the size of the crowd, well you've got 2,000 players there that you can give free tickets to on the proviso they bring a paying adult - you can even make the adult ticket a discounted one the reality is that these are going to be people who wouldn't be at your match but who are now filling empty seats, buying programmes, merchandising and catering.
Sportsmans Dinners? The juvenille clubs tap into Campbell Kennedy's experience and contacts. Donate raffle prizes and auction items and let them use the function suite at Greenhill Road. It doesn't matter if you charge because you've got profit from the catering and from the alcohol sales and your partnership club heads home with next years kit fully paid for.
Sponsorship? Would a sponsor pay more to put their name on the strips of one SPL club and 2,000 replica kits, or for one SPL club, 2,000 replica kits, and 100 teams of 20 players playing in different leagues right across the country?
Again for the juvenile club what about tapping into the experience and knowledge of the guys at the CIC? Are there new revenue streams? How can they target their local councils? Where are there grants and loans availble to help them get their own 3g pitch in their own community?
And so on. The number of mutual benefits that could be exploited by both sides are absolutely enormous and that's before you look at the hockey, rugby, athletics, cricket, boxing, basketball, and god knows how many other sports clubs that are being targetted, or the church groups, and various charities that are being brought in as well.
Yet despite all that potential the evidence here is that the vast majority of St Mirren fans are stuck debating whether or not the club bar should profit the club or the CIC and we've got people who claim to be passionate St Mirren supporters complaining the scheme's of no interest to them because their tenner won't go directly to the pocket of the next injury prone workshy striker who might bag them 4 goals a season in the SPL.