Shareholders Not Joining the CIC

[St. Sid]

I find it enormously amusing that CIC dissenting shareholders are bleating about stuff like not getting access to the supporters bar. If they want access they can take out a CIC membership or if they are really desperate they can beg a CIC Member to sign them in.

The offer made to shareholders back in the day was pay money get a bit of paper and a warm fuzzy feeling for having helped the club. If you think you have been conned I can't see why. At no point was any prospective shareholder promised a big pay day when the club was sold or a trade in for any future venture which has nothing to do with buying their shares.

The bizarre aspect of this is that they are now being offered a far better deal. You get a members card, access to the supporters bar, you actually get an influence over the running of the club and as well as getting a warm fuzzy feeling from helping the club you also get to help the wider community of Renfrewshire.

Dry yer f'k'n eyes.

[pozbaird]

I find it enormously amusing that CIC dissenting shareholders are bleating about stuff like not getting access to the supporters bar. If they want access they can take out a CIC membership or if they are really desperate they can beg a CIC Member to sign them in.

The offer made to shareholders back in the day was pay money get a bit of paper and a warm fuzzy feeling for having helped the club. If you think you have been conned I can't see why. At no point was any prospective shareholder promised a big pay day when the club was sold or a trade in for any future venture which has nothing to do with buying their shares.

The bizarre aspect of this is that they are now being offered a far better deal. You get a members card, access to the supporters bar, you actually get an influence over the running of the club and as well as getting a warm fuzzy feeling from helping the club you also get to help the wider community of Renfrewshire.

Dry yer f'k'n eyes.

I know you've got a forum style of dry 'stick the boot in' humour Sid, and I'm genuinely not having a pop at you, but while I'm supportive of the CIC plan myself, one thing I'm really getting sick of is the increasing danger of multiple-splits into perceived factions. We've got CIC supporters, CIC dissenters, ST holders, pay-at-the-gate punters, SMiSA members, 'The forgotten 48%' shareholders, the community members, the corporate members.....

Fcuk sake - as far as I'm concerned we're all just St Mirren supporters.

[HSS]

Is the bar the "big thing" for fans joining the CiC?It seems to be a lot of fans see this as the main purpose for joining up!

[pozbaird]

Is the bar the "big thing" for fans joining the CiC?It seems to be a lot of fans see this as the main purpose for joining up!

The bar is a side issue at best, as far as my joining the CIC is concerned. I'm joining because the current custodians of the club can do no more to progress the club forward. They have put in more than a fair shift at the coal face - time to sell up and move on.

I fully expected to see GLS take over, perhaps with an influx of new blood alongside him in the shape of businessmen and football people known to GLS. His bids were rejected. Why they were rejected is a question for the consortium to answer.

After hearing GLS was out the picture, I then became worried that the consortium would, perhaps in desperation to see a return, simply sell up to a sugar daddy type who promised much. I was expecting to see talk of 'investment in the team' and frankly, I feared Killie levels of debt, perhaps not Livvy or Dundee stupidity, but stupidity for short-term 'glory' at least. That hasn't happened either.

The reason I am joining the CIC is because through a set of circumstances relating to me being a graphic designer, I have had first hand dealings with the men involved. I have found them to be genuine, motivated, enthusistic, and with many good ideas - most of which are as yet unrealised. However, I have already seen successes and good, workable, sensible ideas come to fruition. I don't think the CIC plan is without risk. but purely based on my experiences so far, for £10 a month, £2.33 a week - it's a risk I'm willing to take. All I can do is to decide to take the plunge and try to help make it work.

A bar is nice, but I'm more into the prospect of the CIC plan relieving the tired and finished consortium of their duties, and of expanding the whole outlook of our club to a totally different and better place.

[TsuMirren]

I know you've got a forum style of dry 'stick the boot in' humour Sid, and I'm genuinely not having a pop at you, but while I'm supportive of the CIC plan myself, one thing I'm really getting sick of is the increasing danger of multiple-splits into perceived factions. We've got CIC supporters, CIC dissenters, ST holders, pay-at-the-gate punters, SMiSA members, 'The forgotten 48%' shareholders, the community members, the corporate members.....

Fcuk sake - as far as I'm concerned we're all just St Mirren supporters.

It's only a faction if you're not mature enough to cope with the concept of people not necessarily all agreeing with each other.

The sub-heading of Sid's latest comedic tirade is potentially more damaging than any Animal post as visitors to the form are guaranteed to see Sid's heading and then read it. They may not read anything else after that.

[Big Fras]

It's only a faction if you're not mature enough to cope with the concept of people not necessarily all agreeing with each other.

The sub-heading of Sid's latest comedic tirade is potentially more damaging than any Animal post as visitors to the form are guaranteed to see Sid's heading and then read it. They may not read anything else after that.

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.

I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.

Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.

This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

[Stuart Dickson]

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.

I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.

Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.

This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

Big Fras, for me it's not necessarily a one way street. I defended the objectors right to post a few weeks back and said that the negatives has to be listened to for us all to form a reasoned opinion, but I'm finding myself bored with it already. Nothing new has been added to the debate over the last 2-3 weeks and when I log on here now all I see is petty slanging matches - I've even got caught up in one myself with Vambo who's idea of the consortium blowing the budget on some big money signings and then leaving it to the CIC to clear up the financial maelstrom is just about the most stupid thing I've read on a St Mirren forum - and there's always been plenty of competition for that mantle.

I made the decision a few weeks back that I would be a member of the CIC. I'd read the literature and listened to the points and arguments and I found it an easy decision to take. Why? It's because this is the first time in probably 30 years I've seen ANY senior Scottish Football Club make a genuine move to ask community groups in the voluntary sector what the club can do to help. For far too long those running Scottish Football have made a grab for everything, whether it's the likes of Motherwell and Hamilton lodging serial let bookings at council run sports facilities only to leave them unused because they can't afford to pay for them, or pro youth structures plucking the best kids from clubs, inflating their ego's whilst denying them football, and then spitting the kids back again once they've found something better. Far from supporting the community senior football clubs have chosen to compete with community groups for grants, facilities and sponsorship and devastated the game in Scotland as a result. The way I see 10,000 hours and the CIC is that finally we have something that is offering a partnership with shared knowledge and experience as well as shared use of facilities and equipment and to me that's worth backing. A partnership that is going to have mutual benefits for all concerned and for St Mirren it's likely to mean increased supporter numbers, more private function books, and perhaps less quantifiable items like juvenile clubs recommending their players and players at other clubs they've seen play to the clubs scouts.

However I am now beginning to waiver. Why? Because when I read through this forum I see people making statements about how their only concern is what happens on the pitch at Greenhill Road. I read about people complaining that their £10 per month isn't going directly into the playing budget. I read the petty slanging matches and I see the same empty headed, small minded self interest repeating itself over and over again and I realise that these are the people who are going to have a say in the directions and decisions the CIC takes.

[aldo_j]

The reason I am joining the CIC is because through a set of circumstances relating to me being a graphic designer, I have had first hand dealings with the men involved. I have found them to be genuine, motivated, enthusistic, and with many good ideas - most of which are as yet unrealised. However, I have already seen successes and good, workable, sensible ideas come to fruition. I don't think the CIC plan is without risk. but purely based on my experiences so far, for £10 a month, £2.33 a week - it's a risk I'm willing to take. All I can do is to decide to take the plunge and try to help make it work.

You got your case of beer of RA yet? Think I was sitting next to you at the second public meeting.

[pozbaird]

You got your case of beer of RA yet? Think I was sitting next to you at the second public meeting.

Good point. Miserable bar-steward that he is.

Nah, that whole thing was a joke - after yet another last, last, last minute change to something he e-mailed me to say something like "I owe you a beer", to which I responded "make it a case of Sam Adams Boston Lager then". He then said he'd an old case of Bud in his garage from about 3 Christmases ago - would that do. Hence the 'beer for design services' reference at the meeting.

...hmm. Mind you, it should still be OK just sitting in a garage in the dark. Nah, forget it. It's Bud. Brewed under licence in the E.U. pishwatter'.

[ds10]

However I am now beginning to waiver. Why? Because when I read through this forum I see people making statements about how their only concern is what happens on the pitch at Greenhill Road. I read about people complaining that their £10 per month isn't going directly into the playing budget. I read the petty slanging matches and I see the same empty headed, small minded self interest repeating itself over and over again and I realise that these are the people who are going to have a say in the directions and decisions the CIC takes.

So far the promotion of the CIC has been mainly aimed St Mirren fans. And this being a St Mirren supporters website the debate here is naturally mainly focused on whether the CIC takeover is in the best interests of the club. Whist it is admirable that you can see the bigger picture, I don't think you can blame fans of the football club for saying that their main concern is the best interests of the club.

It's obvious form the meetings though there are a lot of people who will be involved with the CIC who are doing so because of the wider benefit to the community and I'm sure that they will play an important role in the CIC decisions.

I think the people who end up involved with the CIC will be people who genuinely want to see it work. And for it to work most successfully it will have to benefit both the club and the community.

[rea]

Good point. Miserable bar-steward that he is.

Nah, that whole thing was a joke - after yet another last, last, last minute change to something he e-mailed me to say something like "I owe you a beer", to which I responded "make it a case of Sam Adams Boston Lager then". He then said he'd an old case of Bud in his garage from about 3 Christmases ago - would that do. Hence the 'beer for design services' reference at the meeting.

...hmm. Mind you, it should still be OK just sitting in a garage in the dark. Nah, forget it. It's Bud. Brewed under licence in the E.U. pishwatter'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Adams_(beer)

is this the stuff?

[pozbaird]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Adams_(beer)

is this the stuff?

Website below. My favourite beer on the planet, alongside 'Rickards Red' from Montreal.

http://www.samueladams.com/age-gate.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2findex.aspx

[Gary Blues]

Big Fras, for me it's not necessarily a one way street. I defended the objectors right to post a few weeks back and said that the negatives has to be listened to for us all to form a reasoned opinion, but I'm finding myself bored with it already. Nothing new has been added to the debate over the last 2-3 weeks and when I log on here now all I see is petty slanging matches - I've even got caught up in one myself with Vambo who's idea of the consortium blowing the budget on some big money signings and then leaving it to the CIC to clear up the financial maelstrom is just about the most stupid thing I've read on a St Mirren forum - and there's always been plenty of competition for that mantle.

I made the decision a few weeks back that I would be a member of the CIC. I'd read the literature and listened to the points and arguments and I found it an easy decision to take. Why? It's because this is the first time in probably 30 years I've seen ANY senior Scottish Football Club make a genuine move to ask community groups in the voluntary sector what the club can do to help. For far too long those running Scottish Football have made a grab for everything, whether it's the likes of Motherwell and Hamilton lodging serial let bookings at council run sports facilities only to leave them unused because they can't afford to pay for them, or pro youth structures plucking the best kids from clubs, inflating their ego's whilst denying them football, and then spitting the kids back again once they've found something better. Far from supporting the community senior football clubs have chosen to compete with community groups for grants, facilities and sponsorship and devastated the game in Scotland as a result. The way I see 10,000 hours and the CIC is that finally we have something that is offering a partnership with shared knowledge and experience as well as shared use of facilities and equipment and to me that's worth backing. A partnership that is going to have mutual benefits for all concerned and for St Mirren it's likely to mean increased supporter numbers, more private function books, and perhaps less quantifiable items like juvenile clubs recommending their players and players at other clubs they've seen play to the clubs scouts.

However I am now beginning to waiver. Why? Because when I read through this forum I see people making statements about how their only concern is what happens on the pitch at Greenhill Road. I read about people complaining that their £10 per month isn't going directly into the playing budget. I read the petty slanging matches and I see the same empty headed, small minded self interest repeating itself over and over again and I realise that these are the people who are going to have a say in the directions and decisions the CIC takes.

Good post Stuart and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I suppose my main concern about it all is that the overriding aim of the CIC in the immediate future will be to raise £2 million to give to Gilmour & Co.

There is no doubt that Gilmour & Co have done great work to get us into the position we are, at great financial risk to themselves, they are essentially putting the boot into the other 48% shareholders in order to get their money (particularly GS) It means that the focus and priority of the CIC won't be the progression of the club until they have paid them off.

However, it seems the only way forward and so far I think Richard Atkinson seems to be doing a good job.

[Gruffalo]

So far the promotion of the CIC has been mainly aimed St Mirren fans. And this being a St Mirren supporters website the debate here is naturally mainly focused on whether the CIC takeover is in the best interests of the club. Whist it is admirable that you can see the bigger picture, I don't think you can blame fans of the football club for saying that their main concern is the best interests of the club.

It's obvious form the meetings though there are a lot of people who will be involved with the CIC who are doing so because of the wider benefit to the community and I'm sure that they will play an important role in the CIC decisions.

I think the people who end up involved with the CIC will be people who genuinely want to see it work. And for it to work most successfully it will have to benefit both the club and the community.

DS 10 sorry to disagree with you on this. But the idea of the CiC was punted around the community organisations well before it was presented to the St Mirren fans. Quite rightly so as they will be the main beneficiaries of the CiC. Without their backing the CiC is completely flawed.

SD is correct in that too many posters and people I have discussed this with are failing to grasp the concept of what the CiC will endeavour to be. Basically the fan will be donating £10/month in to a not for profit organisation. That money will be used to pay off the loan and fund future community investments/enterprises. The principals of the CiC are fantastic. Too many people are looking at the selfish aspects of the deal which is the bar and the thought that they will run the club.

To reiterate my previous posts in that the CiC and the Club are two separate entities and two separate businesses.

[Gruffalo]

Good post Stuart and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I suppose my main concern about it all is that the overriding aim of the CIC in the immediate future will be to raise £2 million to give to Gilmour & Co.

There is no doubt that Gilmour & Co have done great work to get us into the position we are, at great financial risk to themselves, they are essentially putting the boot into the other 48% shareholders in order to get their money (particularly GS) It means that the focus and priority of the CIC won't be the progression of the club until they have paid them off.

However, it seems the only way forward and so far I think Richard Atkinson seems to be doing a good job.

The CiC aim will be to show that your £10/month has been used to improve the community and hopefully to the benefit of the club from any side perks that it can bring through use of the facilities, or raising the clubs profile.

[FTOF]

.

I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.

The exact opposite is true from a couple CIC supporters who were swithering about joining and, who have now signed up in response to the the negative doom laden posts against the CiC, by anonymous individuals with an obvious agenda.

Works both ways,it would seem.

Edited May 19, 2011 by FTOF

[Tommy]

The bar is a side issue at best, as far as my joining the CIC is concerned. I'm joining because the current custodians of the club can do no more to progress the club forward. They have put in more than a fair shift at the coal face - time to sell up and move on.

I fully expected to see GLS take over, perhaps with an influx of new blood alongside him in the shape of businessmen and football people known to GLS. His bids were rejected. Why they were rejected is a question for the consortium to answer.

After hearing GLS was out the picture, I then became worried that the consortium would, perhaps in desperation to see a return, simply sell up to a sugar daddy type who promised much. I was expecting to see talk of 'investment in the team' and frankly, I feared Killie levels of debt, perhaps not Livvy or Dundee stupidity, but stupidity for short-term 'glory' at least. That hasn't happened either.

The reason I am joining the CIC is because through a set of circumstances relating to me being a graphic designer, I have had first hand dealings with the men involved. I have found them to be genuine, motivated, enthusistic, and with many good ideas - most of which are as yet unrealised. However, I have already seen successes and good, workable, sensible ideas come to fruition. I don't think the CIC plan is without risk. but purely based on my experiences so far, for £10 a month, £2.33 a week - it's a risk I'm willing to take. All I can do is to decide to take the plunge and try to help make it work.

A bar is nice, but I'm more into the prospect of the CIC plan relieving the tired and finished consortium of their duties, and of expanding the whole outlook of our club to a totally different and better place.

The cost of a pint each week is not the problem, the problem is somebody different from the safe hands of the existing board ( who have ran out of time) who have fail in my view to show 52% of the club is worth 2 million of other peoples money. If Gilmour and crew can't sell for what they want, they should do what house owners do, cut the asking price or stay where they are.

[Stuart Dickson]

DS 10 sorry to disagree with you on this. But the idea of the CiC was punted around the community organisations well before it was presented to the St Mirren fans. Quite rightly so as they will be the main beneficiaries of the CiC. Without their backing the CiC is completely flawed.

SD is correct in that too many posters and people I have discussed this with are failing to grasp the concept of what the CiC will endeavour to be. Basically the fan will be donating £10/month in to a not for profit organisation. That money will be used to pay off the loan and fund future community investments/enterprises. The principals of the CiC are fantastic. Too many people are looking at the selfish aspects of the deal which is the bar and the thought that they will run the club.

To reiterate my previous posts in that the CiC and the Club are two separate entities and two separate businesses.

Damn right they are and the benefits to St Mirren are potentially enormous too.

Months ago on here I tried to outline what my idea of what this should be and I cited the example of having 10 SFA Quality Mark football clubs from across the central belt as community members would be. Now I admit I was thinking market stall whilst Richard Atkinson is thinking about a national chain of supermarkets but the example is relevant on a small scale.

What I said back then was consider the set up. Lets say each of those 10 clubs have 10 teams each. In each team they'll have squads of approx 20 players (2,000 players in total), and to be quality marked they need at least one SFA Qualified level 2 or 3 coach per side and one SFA Qualified level 1 coach (200 qualified coaches in total)

Now as a small example consider St Mirren's kit deal. This year I would imagine that Provan Sports would have sold the equivelent of 2,000 kit units. Bundle in the kit order for each of those 10 clubs that are in partnership with you and you've doubled the size of the order - which gives you a bit more power to negotiate better volume discounts, or more up front money. The community club gets good quality kit and cheaper prices, and St Mirren get to increase their profit margin on a club consumable.

On top of that you've got 200 qualified coaches spread across Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire, West Lothian and maybe even further afield all of whom are watching football in their age groups every single week and who know their best players, and their oppositions best players. So that's your scouting network taken care of, Oh and if you fancy it there's also the potential for a St Mirren Football Academy in every major town throughout the central belt using those 200 coaches from the 10 clubs and the St Mirren branding to bring in income that can be shared between the juvenile club and St Mirren.

Going back the way St Mirren always have players going through their coaching certificates who are lacking in practical experience - yet in this model you've got 100 teams across a number of regions where your players can go out and gain practical coaching experience.

Want to boost the size of the crowd, well you've got 2,000 players there that you can give free tickets to on the proviso they bring a paying adult - you can even make the adult ticket a discounted one the reality is that these are going to be people who wouldn't be at your match but who are now filling empty seats, buying programmes, merchandising and catering.

Sportsmans Dinners? The juvenille clubs tap into Campbell Kennedy's experience and contacts. Donate raffle prizes and auction items and let them use the function suite at Greenhill Road. It doesn't matter if you charge because you've got profit from the catering and from the alcohol sales and your partnership club heads home with next years kit fully paid for.

Sponsorship? Would a sponsor pay more to put their name on the strips of one SPL club and 2,000 replica kits, or for one SPL club, 2,000 replica kits, and 100 teams of 20 players playing in different leagues right across the country?

Again for the juvenile club what about tapping into the experience and knowledge of the guys at the CIC? Are there new revenue streams? How can they target their local councils? Where are there grants and loans availble to help them get their own 3g pitch in their own community?

And so on. The number of mutual benefits that could be exploited by both sides are absolutely enormous and that's before you look at the hockey, rugby, athletics, cricket, boxing, basketball, and god knows how many other sports clubs that are being targetted, or the church groups, and various charities that are being brought in as well.

Yet despite all that potential the evidence here is that the vast majority of St Mirren fans are stuck debating whether or not the club bar should profit the club or the CIC and we've got people who claim to be passionate St Mirren supporters complaining the scheme's of no interest to them because their tenner won't go directly to the pocket of the next injury prone workshy striker who might bag them 4 goals a season in the SPL.

[Stuart Dickson]

The cost of a pint each week is not the problem, the problem is somebody different from the safe hands of the existing board ( who have ran out of time) who have fail in my view to show 52% of the club is worth 2 million of other peoples money. If Gilmour and crew can't sell for what they want, they should do what house owners do, cut the asking price or stay where they are.

Do you know what? I'd love to see that if for no other reason than pure spite. But the reality is that they HAVE got a purchaser who has agreed the £2m price in 10000 hours and I think it is probably a fair price. Don't get me wrong St Mirren FC as a brand is worth f**k all, but the asset is the stadium and the lease on the training ground. £4m for 100% looks reasonably accurate as a valuation of that to me.

[smfcuk1877]

have a green dot stuart

[St. Sid]

Sadly a good post. The sub-line on the thread title is a bit uneccesary in the current climate. Whilst seemingly the CICs No.1 fan, Sid is in danger of becoming its No.1 PR liability.

I'm not going to expand much beyond the fact that a lot of people wanting to know about the CIC concept have been visiting this forum. I spoke to 4 when recently "up the road", and they were more than a little bit sceptical due to the overly aggressive backing given by certain posters on here. I was suprised at the lack of knowledge of what is being proposed, but all 4 didn't want to contact/join the forum due to the nature of abuse being doled out. The simnple fact is that some of the vehement CIC supporters are actuall "switching off" people from joining them.

Of course, the line is "its just an unofficial forum, what do you expect".....but the reality is that this forum has been heavily slanted in favour of the bid, which is in itself fair enough. Slaughtering any non-committed parties is not clever PR, as I'm sure Mr.Atkinson would agree. "Defenders of the CIC faith" are then only making it harder to persude the non-committed to join up in the future, which goes against the very nature of what the CIC concept is supposed to be about.

This is now beginning to turn into the most negative, divisive issue amongst the fans for some time.

You better give your 4 shrinking violet dissenters a phone then as I've only got the 2 red dots, which for a post like that is pretty disappointing.

Think it was pozbaird that talked about various factions developing. I think that is miles off the mark and he has missed the point. There is no great CIC resistance movement, whether it be conscientious objectors or just bealing shareholders. There are certainly a few pompous bawbags putting their personal agendas before the club.

From my conversations with people it seems that the majority of existing shareholders are going to invest in the CIC. I have spoken to some people that are waiting to see what happens with the funding before they get involved. There are others who are happy for the CIC to crack on, but just don't want to make a financial commitment. That is certainly not a CIC resistance movement.

The forum is wide open for anyone to contribute as they see fit. I have probably been the most vocal about protecting the Q&A thread from the usual bawbaggery. I have invited dafties like animal to open a new thread to outline their objections to the CIC. Not surprisingly that thread hasn't been created. The simple reason is that they have offered no salient objections to the club.

On a positive note it is good to see the calls to have me banned being made out in the open rather than in private conversations - very childish that.

The reality is that we now need to wait and see what transpires with the CIC. If it fails to be realised and it still will any of its "supporters" stomp off in the huff and refuse to renew their season tickets or stop supporting St Mirren. Of course they won't, nor will they make petty threats on the Internet or to the club to do that. Will Pozbaird demand his hall of Fame "works of art" back and storm off up Well Street with them tucked under his arm in the huff......don't beleive it for a minute. Will Div shut down B&WArmy in a fit of baldy pique....nope........Will St Sid stop posting......nae chance!!!!

So in the interim all you dissenters can batter into these:

[davidg]

You better give your 4 shrinking violet dissenters a phone then as I've only got the 2 red dots, which for a post like that is pretty disappointing.

Think it was pozbaird that talked about various factions developing. I think that is miles off the mark and he has missed the point. There is no great CIC resistance movement, whether it be conscientious objectors or just bealing shareholders. There are certainly a few pompous bawbags putting their personal agendas before the club.

From my conversations with people it seems that the majority of existing shareholders are going to invest in the CIC. I have spoken to some people that are waiting to see what happens with the funding before they get involved. There are others who are happy for the CIC to crack on, but just don't want to make a financial commitment. That is certainly not a CIC resistance movement.

The forum is wide open for anyone to contribute as they see fit. I have probably been the most vocal about protecting the Q&A thread from the usual bawbaggery. I have invited dafties like animal to open a new thread to outline their objections to the CIC. Not surprisingly that thread hasn't been created. The simple reason is that they have offered no salient objections to the club.

On a positive note it is good to see the calls to have me banned being made out in the open rather than in private conversations - very childish that.

The reality is that we now need to wait and see what transpires with the CIC. If it fails to be realised and it still will any of its "supporters" stomp off in the huff and refuse to renew their season tickets or stop supporting St Mirren. Of course they won't, nor will they make petty threats on the Internet or to the club to do that. Will Pozbaird demand his hall of Fame "works of art" back and storm off up Well Street with them tucked under his arm in the huff......don't beleive it for a minute. Will Div shut down B&WArmy in a fit of baldy pique....nope........Will St Sid stop posting......nae chance!!!!

So in the interim all you dissenters can batter into these:

Far too much spare time on your hands mate!!!

[pozbaird]

Think it was pozbaird that talked about various factions developing. I think that is miles off the mark and he has missed the point. There is no great CIC resistance movement, whether it be conscientious objectors or just bealing shareholders. There are certainly a few pompous bawbags putting their personal agendas before the club.

I haven't missed the point Sid. I enjoy your forum banter, and take it with good humour. In many cases your style of forum patter mirrors my own - which is kind of worrying for the rest of the forum, but that's another debate. I still think there's a danger of factions forming. Once the CIC comes into play for real it is a danger - and it is a danger Richard Atkinson himself recognises. Trust me.

The possibility exists for 'cliques' to evolve - in the ranks of the three membership classes certainly, never mind anywhere else. I have suggested some sort of social evening in the corporate suite following any deal concluding, where individual, community, and corporate members all mix at the tables, and there's not a table completely made up of people from the Life Church, or from SMiSA, or from anywhere else. I'd like to be at a table with some people from a community partner, a corporate member, and a couple of individual supporter members - to get the chance to chew the fat, find out why they joined up, and what they see the benefits to them being. It's just an idea. Maybe something will come of it, maybe not.

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

Lots of knicker wetting and willy warming going on again I see.

I think we should listen to this Man...…for the good of St. Mirren Football Club...

Edited May 19, 2011 by Tracy Barlow Loyal

[St. Sid]

The possibility exists for 'cliques' to evolve....

No chance, the B&WArmy pro-CIC dick-o-phile clique will crush them all.