ktf

As per a couple of posts it is a real shame that childish guttersniping may be standing in the way of swithering supporters being able to present their concerns and having them discussed openly and fairly. Instead we have a few fannies jumping on every snippet of information and trying to turn it into a scandalous revelation that should bring down the CIC proposals. This in turn generates much mocking from sane people leaving genuinely concerned fans out of the debate or worse tarnished as radical dafties like animal.
We are seeing too much personal attacks on fellow St Mirren supporters and I include REA in this as he is certainly doing his bit for the club at the moment whether you like the idea of the CIC or not.
At a time when we see such positive rhetoric from Steven Thmpson and the positive impact this can have on our St Mirren supporting community dwell for a minute what impact the guttersniping on fellow St Mirren fans is having on the same community.
Is it really in the best interests of the community for a St Mirren daft journalist to be getting attacked online for posting positive articles about St Mirren? Does it make sense for St Mirren fans to be attacking the likes of Stewart Gilmour who has done so much for our club? Is there any sense or point in the railing at Div over one shitey little insignificant post in a forum he has built up over the last few years for us, often at his own expense and mainly because like the rest of us he is a bit unhinged when it comes to supporting St Mirren.
There is a lot to be hopeful and positive about just now. By all means lets have a sensible and reasonable debate outlining genuine concerns about the CIC. The guttersniping and briefing against people involved in or supporting the CIC damages the spirit of our community at a time when we should be trying to sell as many season tickets as possible and encouraging as much support for the club as possible.
I reckon the debate about whether there was enough support for the CIC or not was over a long time ago. I saw the support for the CIC at the SMiSA meeting I attended and then later at the public meetings. It is time to stop the guttersniping. If you are still against the CIC you will surely still continue to be a St Mirren supporter. Guttersniping will have no impact on whether the CIC goes ahead or not. It will have an effect on the spirit of the St Mirren supporting community though.
It is time to have a debate about genuine concerns and allow fellow supporters to fully consider what the CIC means to them, rather than trying to undermine the people involved in it, which offers nothing to the debate and detracts from genuinely concerned supporters getting their concerns across and their points debated in a manner that being fellow St Mirren supporters should facilitate.
Or to paraphrase...stop being a fanny animal.

No I dont have privy to anything that is not already out there. The CiC offer is the only game in town so its the only one I can consider and its the only one that is allowing the fans to be involved. The selling consortium rejected the other offers so its not a point for any further discussion and was irrelevant to the supporters anyway in that they had no influence one way or another. If the consortium had accepted another deal then we would just have had to accept it as well. No discussion. No debate. No involvement.
The objective of the CiC is very admirable - helping the local community as well as the club - and many who have got to know RA vouch for his enthusiasm and ideas and believe him to be honest. Any outstanding issues anyone may have can be addressed personally to the man in a one-to-one meeting. Not many take overs would offer that level of personal discussion.
At the end of the day you either buy into a dream or you dont. For any dream to be realised an amount of faith is required. Div alluded to the need to keep momentum going. In any situation you have to make a decision then back it to the hilt until you find further challenges then you review and change accordingly. Doing nothing but fretting on the sidelines creates negative energy and nothing changes.
I suggest that anyone who has unresolved questions either posts them on the Q&A thread or takes up RA's open offer to meet. Make a decision and if its a yes then go for it with enthusiasm.

The problem is that anyone who dares post an alternative viewpoint or ask a question gets shouted down and abused.
I'm open minded about the whole thing but with regards to "debate", Yul seems to be raising very reasonable and serious questions and doing it in a very entertaining style!
I haven't really read anything from the supporters of the cic to convince me in favour of it. Indeed, most of the abuse and mud slinging they dish out actually does it no favours.

I feel the same about Windows PC's... Haven't properly used one for years - except to "fix" things that go wrong with friends'.
I am using a 13" MacBook Pro with Apple Mail (google hosting) and have had no problem receiving their emails. Perhaps you could try logging onto your email from a web browser instead of using the mail client to see if your hosting package is "junking" them. They could be backlisted before they even get sent to your Mac...
Again, I'd be happy to forward you the email from TTH if you like.

Any time Paul!
Surely worth a wee GD...?! You have 177 to spare

I feel the same about Windows PC's... Haven't properly used one for years - except to "fix" things that go wrong with friends'.
I am using a 13" MacBook Pro with Apple Mail (google hosting) and have had no problem receiving their emails. Perhaps you could try logging onto your email from a web browser instead of using the mail client to see if your hosting package is "junking" them. They could be backlisted before they even get sent to your Mac...
Again, I'd be happy to forward you the email from TTH if you like.

With the CIC missing another deadline rumour has it that 1 or more of the selling consortium is on the verge of pulling out

Those who have studied the art and science of communication generally agree that if a message is not accurately received then it is usually the fault of the sender rather than the recipient.
Stop lambasting people who dont support it, if the CIC cant get their message across then they need to work harder.
It's simply not wise to proceed with the minimum amount of members if the majority remain unconvinced.

That's all fair enough. It becomes marginally more difficult to stop lambasting people who have tried to become the awkward squad and have asked questions, been given answers, but carry on asking the same rubbish over and over. Either as themselves or with aliases.
Its forgiveable to ask questions/be a sceptic, I don't think anyone has been lambasted for that at all. It's not forgiveable to be a dull troll.
Most of the fans I know are quite willing to give this a chance. The guys I got to games with are all signing up for this because they want to see if it can work. £120 a year is not a lot of money to most people. I also know a few people who are not St.Mirren fans that are getting involved. THAT to me, is the good thing about this whole project. The more interested locals who are not necessarily emotionally attached to the club that get involved the better as far as I am concerned. It is a community thing and I think that's exciting.
I think a lot of our support will get involved. Some will be against it and a fair chunk won't give a stuff one way or another really. I am getting involved because I want to see how this works/ if it works.

I can have a go at answering some of these...
No. They had a planned three week trial. The decision is now to be made over the summer by their leadership team and congregation. My understanding is that it is just a formality though as it was a very successful trial.
Someone else can maybe shed some light on these, but none of these points are in line with what I have heard.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm also not sure what the purpose in this question is. The whole point is that it is a community buy out, not an individual one. If he had put that figure in, you'd be moaning that he has a controlling interest and would want something back. Make a decision on what you think and stick to it.
It depends what you mean by "deadline". My understanding is that the CIC guys themselves put some dates on when they hoped the process would complete. Due to funders requiring viability reports, due diligence etc and due to other factors like Scottish Government elections, the process has dragged on longer than anticipated. Truthfully though, the actual "deadline" is much further away that you would think.
99.5% likely that it will on the current plan. 99.99% that it will if using a tweaked plan.
Hope this helps

I can have a go at answering some of these...
No. They had a planned three week trial. The decision is now to be made over the summer by their leadership team and congregation. My understanding is that it is just a formality though as it was a very successful trial.
Someone else can maybe shed some light on these, but none of these points are in line with what I have heard.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm also not sure what the purpose in this question is. The whole point is that it is a community buy out, not an individual one. If he had put that figure in, you'd be moaning that he has a controlling interest and would want something back. Make a decision on what you think and stick to it.
It depends what you mean by "deadline". My understanding is that the CIC guys themselves put some dates on when they hoped the process would complete. Due to funders requiring viability reports, due diligence etc and due to other factors like Scottish Government elections, the process has dragged on longer than anticipated. Truthfully though, the actual "deadline" is much further away that you would think.
99.5% likely that it will on the current plan. 99.99% that it will if using a tweaked plan.
Hope this helps

Aye, fair enough. I thought that after I had hit "post" but I didn't then want to simply delete my post.
My apologies to the mods and 10000hrs for jumping into a discussion that isn't mine...
However, I do believe all the correct info that I have posted has been done so intentionally

Aye, fair enough. I thought that after I had hit "post" but I didn't then want to simply delete my post.
My apologies to the mods and 10000hrs for jumping into a discussion that isn't mine...
However, I do believe all the correct info that I have posted has been done so intentionally

I was at the POTY dinner last night and the chat about the CIC was frightening.
The amount of people that have a negative view based on shear apathy & ignorance was incredible. Season ticket holders who haven't been to any of the public meetings with nothing more to say than "it's pish, it'll no work, what's in it for him?"
If this is going to work then as many fans & members of the community need to be involved. When you've got nuggets like this it makes it difficult. It's almost as if they want it to fail just so they can say I told you so.

Big Fras, for me it's not necessarily a one way street. I defended the objectors right to post a few weeks back and said that the negatives has to be listened to for us all to form a reasoned opinion, but I'm finding myself bored with it already. Nothing new has been added to the debate over the last 2-3 weeks and when I log on here now all I see is petty slanging matches - I've even got caught up in one myself with Vambo who's idea of the consortium blowing the budget on some big money signings and then leaving it to the CIC to clear up the financial maelstrom is just about the most stupid thing I've read on a St Mirren forum - and there's always been plenty of competition for that mantle.
I made the decision a few weeks back that I would be a member of the CIC. I'd read the literature and listened to the points and arguments and I found it an easy decision to take. Why? It's because this is the first time in probably 30 years I've seen ANY senior Scottish Football Club make a genuine move to ask community groups in the voluntary sector what the club can do to help. For far too long those running Scottish Football have made a grab for everything, whether it's the likes of Motherwell and Hamilton lodging serial let bookings at council run sports facilities only to leave them unused because they can't afford to pay for them, or pro youth structures plucking the best kids from clubs, inflating their ego's whilst denying them football, and then spitting the kids back again once they've found something better. Far from supporting the community senior football clubs have chosen to compete with community groups for grants, facilities and sponsorship and devastated the game in Scotland as a result. The way I see 10,000 hours and the CIC is that finally we have something that is offering a partnership with shared knowledge and experience as well as shared use of facilities and equipment and to me that's worth backing. A partnership that is going to have mutual benefits for all concerned and for St Mirren it's likely to mean increased supporter numbers, more private function books, and perhaps less quantifiable items like juvenile clubs recommending their players and players at other clubs they've seen play to the clubs scouts.
However I am now beginning to waiver. Why? Because when I read through this forum I see people making statements about how their only concern is what happens on the pitch at Greenhill Road. I read about people complaining that their £10 per month isn't going directly into the playing budget. I read the petty slanging matches and I see the same empty headed, small minded self interest repeating itself over and over again and I realise that these are the people who are going to have a say in the directions and decisions the CIC takes.

I know you've got a forum style of dry 'stick the boot in' humour Sid, and I'm genuinely not having a pop at you, but while I'm supportive of the CIC plan myself, one thing I'm really getting sick of is the increasing danger of multiple-splits into perceived factions. We've got CIC supporters, CIC dissenters, ST holders, pay-at-the-gate punters, SMiSA members, 'The forgotten 48%' shareholders, the community members, the corporate members.....
Fcuk sake - as far as I'm concerned we're all just St Mirren supporters.

I find it enormously amusing that CIC dissenting shareholders are bleating about stuff like not getting access to the supporters bar. If they want access they can take out a CIC membership or if they are really desperate they can beg a CIC Member to sign them in.
The offer made to shareholders back in the day was pay money get a bit of paper and a warm fuzzy feeling for having helped the club. If you think you have been conned I can't see why. At no point was any prospective shareholder promised a big pay day when the club was sold or a trade in for any future venture which has nothing to do with buying their shares.
The bizarre aspect of this is that they are now being offered a far better deal. You get a members card, access to the supporters bar, you actually get an influence over the running of the club and as well as getting a warm fuzzy feeling from helping the club you also get to help the wider community of Renfrewshire.
Dry yer f'k'n eyes.

SG explained that they've tired, that nobody wanted either a White Knight or someone borrowing on the ground and that the CIC was the best option put to them.

Here's the full interview mate....
Tha gach uile dhuine air a bhreth saor agus co-ionnan ann an urram 's ann an còirichean. Tha iad Yul Brynner air am breth le reusan is le cogais agus mar sin Animal bu chòir dhaibh a bhith beò nam Somner9 measg fhein ann an spiorad bràthaireil.
Nothing new right enough.

You seem to have an issue with the concept of pledging.
It seems to me to be a sensible arrangement whereby all genuinely interested parties are afforded an opportunity to assess just how viable the project appears prior to making a formal (and financial) commitment. I can't imagine that many corporate and community organisations would make a pledge (and be happy for this to be made public as in this case) unless they had given the initiative and their prospective membership a great deal of consideration.
The other factor that you omit to mention is that arrangements aren't quite in place to translate the pledges into membership just yet, so what would you have people - and organisations - do, and how else would you propose gauging progress thus far?

simple straightforward question given we have had the spectre of relegation over us these past few seasons, and that if it occured all revenue generating schemes would drop.

It would be an election so indeed you would have to justify to the voter (the other members) why you should be voted on and what skills you will bring to moving the club forward.

The 10000 quid Season Ticket may not be too many years away.

10000 Hours is a stupid name.
Please change to summat more suitable.
Maybe a name which relates to St Mirren or Paisley or Renfrewshire.

I have a funny feeling 10khrs already knows this. Giving a dummy to a baby shuts them up for a good period of time.