Club Sale. Developments "very Soon"

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

If 10000Hours does take over the running of the club do the members have the power by majority rule to eliminate other parties from the Co-op who they feel are detrimental (or just mental)?

If so then I wish to propose a motion to ban the Law Village idiot from anything to do with 10000Hours or SMFC Ltd.

All those in favour say "FYSD".

St. Sid and The Silent Majority will be "Top Dogs" in the CIC/Co-Op/10000 Hours.

[Stuart Dickson]

If 10000Hours does take over the running of the club do the members have the power by majority rule to eliminate other parties from the Co-op who they feel are detrimental (or just mental)?

If so then I wish to propose a motion to ban the Law Village idiot from anything to do with 10000Hours or SMFC Ltd.

All those in favour say "FYSD".

From having read the draft articles it looks like they don't - however it does appear that under 26.2.9 that directors can deselect an elected director if they fail to attend director training and they don't like him / her.

However you can rest assured beyond being a member I won't have anything to do with 10000hours, or St Mirren FC - as outlined in previous posts.

[Stuart Dickson]

St. Sid and The Silent Majority will be "Top Dogs" in the CIC/Co-Op/10000 Hours.

*Shudders*

[Tracy Barlow Loyal]

Aye right TBL - I can just see that working out. Putting aside the fact that I have no interest in being involved beyond being a member; the fact that I'm already heavily committed in my own projects in my spare time; the fact that I work regular night shifts which would make my involvement at meetings impossible; and the fact that my wife would kill me if I volunteered for anything else - there's also the issue that I wouldn't want to sit round the same table as some of the likely parties; or the fact I'd very quickly become frustrated at having to constantly battle with the self interested nature of all senior Scottish Football Clubs; and the rather strong likely hood that the votes in my favour would probably look as pathetic as St Mirren's win record at St Mirren Park.

I find your lack of faith disturbing, Stuart. C'mon - Sid will make sure you get your fair share of Sausage Rolls. You can't say fairer than that!

[St. Sid]

Ok well thinking back I think I said "Thank You" to Richard Atkinson as he held the entrance door open for me on the way in. Then I said "Bottle of Miller please Campbell" to Campbell Kennedy at the bar, probably followed by some sort of variation of "Thank You" as I picked up the bottle. Then I made my point during the meeting, and finally I mouthed the word "sorry" to the guy sitting in front of me because he turned round when he heard my mobile phone say "You have a text message" at a point where Richard was talking. Maybe one of them was you - but either way I wasn't introduced to anyone.

As for being a sausage roll thief...the guys at Wishaw Wycombe would put you right on that one. One of our biggest sponsors is a local Indian Restaurant - the Cafe Shebab - and we each get a dish of our choice before the clubs management meetings. I wouldn't settle for any less than that these days.

Edited to add a link to my sponsor

Think I'd rather be on the management team at Wishy Wycombe.

[Gruffalo]

St. Sid and The Silent Majority will be "Top Dogs" in the CIC/Co-Op/10000 Hours.

My fear of the CiC is that certain individuals would be elected to the board of the club.

[div]

My fear of the CiC is that certain individuals would be elected to the board of the club.

I think 10000Hours needs to clarify how the initial football club board would be formed on day one post takeover. Obviously the football club "needs" to have a board and there won't be time for candidates, elections and votes to all take place so who will sit on that board and who will decide who sits on it.

Then we need a timescale for how long it will be until 10000Hours members can put them forward for election and then a simple description of how they will campaign for votes and how the voting system would work for members.

It could get very bitchy and political if it isn't handled correctly.

For me I'd be happy to see some continuity with some of the existing BoD, now stakeholders in 10000Hours remaining in place for at least a transitional period along with the likes of Richard and Chris who have been there now for a while.

Then we need some energy and drive, maybe GLS could be persuaded to rejoin the board ?

Would want someone from SMiSA (would WB be ia good candidate) on there and then some representation from the 48% of shareholders.

Don't think a board of any more than 7or 9 would be required IMO. Just becomes messy.

And just to clarify again, although I fully support 10000Hours and will do whatever I can to help it succeed, I certainly won't be putting myself forward for a place on any board either with St.Mirren or 10000Hours.

[buddiecat]

I think 10000Hours needs to clarify how the initial football club board would be formed on day one post takeover. Obviously the football club "needs" to have a board and there won't be time for candidates, elections and votes to all take place so who will sit on that board and who will decide who sits on it.

Then we need a timescale for how long it will be until 10000Hours members can put them forward for election and then a simple description of how they will campaign for votes and how the voting system would work for members.

It could get very bitchy and political if it isn't handled correctly.

For me I'd be happy to see some continuity with some of the existing BoD, now stakeholders in 10000Hours remaining in place for at least a transitional period along with the likes of Richard and Chris who have been there now for a while.

Then we need some energy and drive, maybe GLS could be persuaded to rejoin the board ?

Would want someone from SMiSA (would WB be ia good candidate) on there and then some representation from the 48% of shareholders.

Don't think a board of any more than 7or 9 would be required IMO. Just becomes messy.

And just to clarify again, although I fully support 10000Hours and will do whatever I can to help it succeed, I certainly won't be putting myself forward for a place on any board either with St.Mirren or 10000Hours.

quite rightly so as anyone putting themselves up for 10000 hours is going to be subjected to so many varying views and opinions he or she would have a breakdown in jig time, they would have to limit voting options or meetings could take days rather than hours, and that in itself will cause major ructions

[Stuart Dickson]

I think 10000Hours needs to clarify how the initial football club board would be formed on day one post takeover. Obviously the football club "needs" to have a board and there won't be time for candidates, elections and votes to all take place so who will sit on that board and who will decide who sits on it.

Then we need a timescale for how long it will be until 10000Hours members can put them forward for election and then a simple description of how they will campaign for votes and how the voting system would work for members.

It could get very bitchy and political if it isn't handled correctly.

For me I'd be happy to see some continuity with some of the existing BoD, now stakeholders in 10000Hours remaining in place for at least a transitional period along with the likes of Richard and Chris who have been there now for a while.

Then we need some energy and drive, maybe GLS could be persuaded to rejoin the board ?

Would want someone from SMiSA (would WB be ia good candidate) on there and then some representation from the 48% of shareholders.

Don't think a board of any more than 7or 9 would be required IMO. Just becomes messy.

And just to clarify again, although I fully support 10000Hours and will do whatever I can to help it succeed, I certainly won't be putting myself forward for a place on any board either with St.Mirren or 10000Hours.

I agree with all of that. A board of 7 or 9 would make sense IMO. No problem either with the idea of continuity or the make up being as you've stated but I would expect the football board to change it's way of thinking. They would have to very quickly grasp the concept of being part of a Social Enterprise, rather than working to traditional business models. There is a responsibility that may well be alien to some of the current board, as well as to fans of the football club.

[Stuart Dickson]

quite rightly so as anyone putting themselves up for 10000 hours is going to be subjected to so many varying views and opinions he or she would have a breakdown in jig time, they would have to limit voting options or meetings could take days rather than hours, and that in itself will cause major ructions

No, I disagree with this.

Being on a committee at 10000hours will be a big commitment, but I think that once you get by the initial stages it wouldn't be much worse than being on the committee at your local golf club / bowling club / athletics club / football club....whatever. You're only talking about 1000 members and in the main, most of those members will really only care about the performance of the football team on the park. I'd hope the make up of the 10000hours board would be much more diverse than that of the football club.

[Kombi Buddie]

Many of us will have received this today

Good afternoon,

Well I hope a number of you are now (or by the time you read this) are on your way back from the 135^th Year Strip Launch at JD sports, Braehead.

By way of update we are still receiving pledges and will announce a public sign up session and Q & A night for all those who have not been able to engage with the process online, so when you see the date advertised in the PDE please let your friends and family know who may want to attend

We have also had a number of people pledge more than the minimum £10 per month.

I wanted first of all to thank those who have and to ask everyone else to consider what they are able to pledge.

I absolutely do not want anyone pledging any more than they can afford and understand the tough financial times that many are facing and do not in away wish to belittle the £10 per month that over a 1000 people have already pledged, but if you wish to pledge any more then please simply send an email back to me with the value and we can make the adjustment to your pledge.

Remember you can also make a one off donation of any value and any money you give will be proportionately credited to you at a future date by way of the amount of share equity you will own in the St Mirren Fans Cooperative.

If anyone has any questions then please feel free to contact me.

Since REA isn't going to belittle the £10 pledgers, maybe the £10 pledgers won't belittle his lack of diplomacy. I sincerely hope he's got the number of £10 pledges required to make this work & folk don't take offence at their £10 pledges not being belittled.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kombi Buddie

[buddiecat]

Since REA isn't going to belittle the £10 pledgers, maybe the £10 pledgers won't belittle his lack of diplomacy. I sincerely hope he's got the number of £10 pledges required to make this work & folk don't take offence at their £10 pledges not being belittled.

indeed a bit of tact definitely missing, why not just say "anyone wishing to pledge £10 or more or existing pledgers wishing to increase their pledge amount please email me" instead of basically £10 isn't much but if you're poor it's okay

[Kombi Buddie]

indeed a bit of tact definitely missing, why not just say "anyone wishing to pledge £10 or more or existing pledgers wishing to increase their pledge amount please email me" instead of basically £10 isn't much but if you're poor it's okay

my interpretation is

your tenner is a great help but we actually need more than that to get this thing over the finishing line, dig deeper if you can

a tenner is my max for no other reason than that is what this donation / subscription investment is worth to me

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kombi Buddie

[Stuart Dickson]

my interpretation is

your tenner is a great help but we actually need more than that to get this thing over the finishing line, dig deeper if you can

a tenner is my max for no other reason than that is what this donation / subscription investment is worth to me

Kombi - To relate this back to the juvenile football club stuff that I do - we take regularly subs from the kids at £5 per week. It sounds a lot but by the time you take in the training pitch let at £80 per week, the match pitch let at £32 per fortnight, and the referee fees - me, and others within the club still have to dig deep into our own pockets to keep the club going. We could raise the subs but we know there are families out there who can't afford it, so instead we do regular newsletters asking for donations, run sponsored events, approach local businesses for help, badger supermarkets to let us do some bag packing in store and we run events like our Sportsmans Dinner and Summer Ball. This month we're back asking for more money for a "Hotshots" thing that Motherwell FC are helping us with and we've been asking for those who can to collect those Daily Record vouchers to help fund some kit. It's a thankless task for those involved and I'm sure that many times over we've been less than subtle when trying to rouse yet more support from the same people but the bottom line is that every penny of it going back into the club to give more than 300 kids a place to train and play football and every single one of them has a new home kit, an away kit, and a training kit all supplied by the club.

10000hours is slightly different. This isn't a bottomless pit. Once 10000hours is up and running properly it will start to generate income on top of the member subscriptions but right now they are where the kids football club are at in that they need more money. They've tried the recruitment drive and that's stalled. They tried grants and funding but they didn't get the full amount they needed. So of course the next natural step is to go back to those who have pledged to see if they would be willing to dig a bit deeper. The e-mail may well be clumsily worded but a wee read around this forum will show that REA isn't alone in being guilty of that.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[Vambo57]

Aye right TBL - I can just see that working out. Putting aside the fact that I have no interest in being involved beyond being a member; the fact that I'm already heavily committed in my own projects in my spare time; the fact that I work regular night shifts which would make my involvement at meetings impossible; and the fact that my wife would kill me if I volunteered for anything else - there's also the issue that I wouldn't want to sit round the same table as some of the likely parties; or the fact I'd very quickly become frustrated at having to constantly battle with the self interested nature of all senior Scottish Football Clubs; and the rather strong likely hood that the votes in my favour would probably look as pathetic as St Mirren's win record at St Mirren Park.

Go on... you know you want to....

[Guest somner9]

I don't know if it's how I read other posts, or if indeed it is a huge misunderstanding that pledgers/commentators are making but perhaps 10000 hours can make it clear that there will be a CiC (10000 hours) board and a SMFC (club) board.

Is it still the case that at least one of the existing shareholders (the non consortium) will be offered a place on the SMFC board??? and what actual powers does the 10000 hours board have???

So for example do the SMFC board have the power to veto anything that the 10000 hour board proposes???

And how does one get onto (who decides) who should be on the SMFC board??? It's still a real hash of an operating structure unless the 10000 hour board are just for show?

[Stuart Dickson]

I don't know if it's how I read other posts, or if indeed it is a huge misunderstanding that pledgers/commentators are making but perhaps 10000 hours can make it clear that there will be a CiC (10000 hours) board and a SMFC (club) board.

Is it still the case that at least one of the existing shareholders (the non consortium) will be offered a place on the SMFC board??? and what actual powers does the 10000 hours board have???

So for example do the SMFC board have the power to veto anything that the 10000 hour board proposes???

And how does one get onto (who decides) who should be on the SMFC board??? It's still a real hash of an operating structure unless the 10000 hour board are just for show?

I agree that it's something that needs more clarity Somner, if only to properly set expectation levels.

I think we are all running with our own concept of what 10000hours is going to be. Some seem to think that this is just about St Mirren fans grouping together under one body to buy a controlling stake in the football club and that every decision at the football club will be deferred until the members are consulted in a MyFC type fashion. I'm probably at the other extreme end where I think that that the members of 10000hours will actually have very little say in the running of the football club beyond voting for their representatives to the various boards and perhaps a say in setting the operating budget for the football club on an annual basis.

I'm working on the principle that 10000hours is the parent group and SMFC is a sub division. As 10000hours grows members would be consulted on a much wider range of issues than just the football club and the football club would effectively be left to run itself with some budget constraints by what would effectively be a sub committee.

I could be completely wrong of course but if I'm right I think there may well be a few people out there who's expectation levels won't have been reached.

In my model I would assume that the directors of the football club would be appointed by election at the clubs AGM. The only stipulation that is in the draft articles is that at least one member of the CIC board would also hold a position on the SMFC board. Beyond that I would assume that all the shareholders of the club - that's the 48% outside 10000hours, and the 52% owned by 10000hours - would elect their representatives.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[steve_the_saint]

I don't know if it's how I read other posts, or if indeed it is a huge misunderstanding that pledgers/commentators are making but perhaps 10000 hours can make it clear that there will be a CiC (10000 hours) board and a SMFC (club) board.

Is it still the case that at least one of the existing shareholders (the non consortium) will be offered a place on the SMFC board??? and what actual powers does the 10000 hours board have???

So for example do the SMFC board have the power to veto anything that the 10000 hour board proposes???

And how does one get onto (who decides) who should be on the SMFC board??? It's still a real hash of an operating structure unless the 10000 hour board are just for show?

If u really want to know, u could copy and paste this post into an email to [email protected]. Richard is very prompt with his replies and I know he'd be more than happy to answer your questions (I asked pretty much the same things).

I'm sure it would take less effort than replying to this post.

[animal]

More conspiracy theory madness from animal. The street football initiative is not a Renfrewshire Council project. It is a national initiative. No c"ntcillor has been involved in the setting up of it or remotely supporting it other than to turf up for the photo opportunities it brings them. It is actually funded from the cashback for communities, mainly funds taken off drug dealers...and also sponsorship from Wiseman Dairies. The c"ntcil actually makes money from the initiative made possible by St Mirren and other clubs via the SFA, not the other way around. As always your big on insinuation and light on facts.

The c"ntcillors were in fact quite happy to try and put St Mirren out of business. St Mirren fans ran a campaign in conjunction with the club letting the c"ntcillors know what we thought of their attempts to block the planning permission. This pressure led to a famous last minute turnaround. The c"ntcil were also heavily involved in the running of the club back when it was running up the insane debts.

Fan ownership is not about REA. Even REA has repeatedly said that fan ownership is not about REA. Where I do actually agree with REA is in communities - whether it is football clubs, swimming pools or community centres / halls - taking ownership of their resources ensuring that they will be protected from asset strippers, poorly financed takeovers, dodgy business plans or worst of all c"ntcil cutbacks. REA has provided the mechanism for fan ownership - this is all about the fans...not REA.

Hi Sid,

I note you have not refuted my accusation of a financial incentive being involved in your worship of Mr. Atkinson and the CIC / Co op. I note you have not produced any evidence (writen or otherwise) of your claims that councillors stopped the CIC plan. No evidence of your claims on the planning issue either. A phone call to the Council (as I did) will confirm they provide around £200,000 to the street football scheme. About £38,000 comes from the Cash Back to Communities scheme. Financial input from others is minimal - please feel free to phone Wisemans and ask. I think they do help sponsor a separate SFA football scheme. The Council had no involvemnat in running the Club at any time (can you prove otherwise ? ) and lent the Club a very large sum of money at very low intrest when financally the Club was very near to going out of business.

So Sid - Time to put up or shut up ! Stop trying to shift the blame to others and at least try and get at least some of your facts right.

[St. Sid]

I note you have not refuted my accusation of a financial incentive being involved in your worship of Mr. Atkinson and the CIC / Co op.

So Sid - Time to put up or shut up ! Stop trying to shift the blame to others and at least try and get at least some of your facts right.

animal, try reading your own posts back. Firstly you start with an unfounded accusation - not the first either - and never provide any evidence to substantiate it. There is no need for me to refute anything animal as it has already been well established that you are a diddy. You have yet to provide a single revelation that has actually been based on reality.

And despite you clearly going to some trouble to try and get some information from one of the SNP cnutcillors you have been in cahoots with you still haven't managed to get your information correct on the street football initiative. Oddly enough the street football initiative is actually evidence of how football clubs and the community can work together for mutual benefit, in spite of the cnutcil. The initiative is a national one, not a local one. The key player in running the initiative locally isn't even the cnutcil - it is Strathclyde Police. The cnutcil simply filters through funding from other areas - most of which comes from Partnership Funding and Anti-violence cashback funding. More importantly its success is measured in social return on investment (SROI)...the very funding mechanism being used by the CIC / Co-op. Youth disorder being reduced by 14-30% in Renfrewshire's LAC areas. There are similar success rates across all 32 local authorities for the nationally run programme. Cnutcillors will try and claim the programme as their own; however in reality they have had f"k all to do with creating the programme, sponsoring the programme or funding the programme. St Mirren's input into the programme has received national plaudits though.

The initiative is excellent; however it is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what can be achieved by the club working in conjunction with the community. The CIC will provide the perfect foil to create further initiatives like this and attract funding for an even greater variety of sources not currently open to us. And the best bit about it is that no creepy f'k'n cnutcillors will be turfing up at every opportunity to try and claim credit for the St Mirren communities work.

[animal]

animal, try reading your own posts back. Firstly you start with an unfounded accusation - not the first either - and never provide any evidence to substantiate it. There is no need for me to refute anything animal as it has already been well established that you are a diddy. You have yet to provide a single revelation that has actually been based on reality.

And despite you clearly going to some trouble to try and get some information from one of the SNP cnutcillors you have been in cahoots with you still haven't managed to get your information correct on the street football initiative. Oddly enough the street football initiative is actually evidence of how football clubs and the community can work together for mutual benefit, in spite of the cnutcil. The initiative is a national one, not a local one. The key player in running the initiative locally isn't even the cnutcil - it is Strathclyde Police. The cnutcil simply filters through funding from other areas - most of which comes from Partnership Funding and Anti-violence cashback funding. More importantly its success is measured in social return on investment (SROI)...the very funding mechanism being used by the CIC / Co-op. Youth disorder being reduced by 14-30% in Renfrewshire's LAC areas. There are similar success rates across all 32 local authorities for the nationally run programme. Cnutcillors will try and claim the programme as their own; however in reality they have had f"k all to do with creating the programme, sponsoring the programme or funding the programme. St Mirren's input into the programme has received national plaudits though.

The initiative is excellent; however it is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what can be achieved by the club working in conjunction with the community. The CIC will provide the perfect foil to create further initiatives like this and attract funding for an even greater variety of sources not currently open to us. And the best bit about it is that no creepy f'k'n cnutcillors will be turfing up at every opportunity to try and claim credit for the St Mirren communities work.

Having talked to some of the people who actually run the street football scheme (not councillors). I can tell you that the main funding comes direct from Renfrewshire Council (£200,000). Cash back funding is £38,000. You can come on here and call me a 'diddy' and swear at me all you like, but that is a fact. The scheme does run well and would not benefit from the involvement of Mr. Atkinson. Everything he touches turns to dust eg. the Club shop, and frankly judging by your foul mouthed input to this web site, the last thing it needs is the involvement of you with a new CIC / Co-Op crown on.

I am still waiting for evidence, preferably in writing (scan it in and download it to us) that Councillors stopped your beloved CIC. Surely your good 'buddie' Richard has a copy he can lend you. If you cannot suppy this I will have to assume that you simply made that bit of the story up to cover up the fact that a national funding body did not want to touch the idea with a 20 foot barge pole.

Edited April 8, 2012 by animal

[St. Sid]

Having talked to some of the people who actually run the street football scheme (not councillors). I can tell you that the main funding comes direct from Renfrewshire Council (£200,000). Cash back funding is £38,000. You can come on here and call me a 'diddy' and swear at me all you like, but that is a fact. The scheme does run well and would not benefit from the involvement of Mr. Atkinson. Everything he touches turns to dust eg. the Club shop, and frankly judging by your foul mouthed input to this web site, the last thing it needs is the involvement of you with a new CIC / Co-Op crown on.

I am still waiting for evidence, preferably in writing (scan it in and download it to us) that Councillors stopped your beloved CIC. Surely your good 'buddie' Richard has a copy he can lend you. If you cannot suppy this I will have to assume that you simply made that bit of the story up to cover up the fact that a national funding body did not want to touch the idea with a 20 foot barge pole.

You're top class comedy animal. Since you appeared on the forum you have slabbered one insinuation after another about the CIC. Not one of your promised revelations has ever come to fruition.

This latest madness is classic stuff from you. You bang on about the street football initiative and when corrected in your misinformation come back with "evidence" that you have spoken to "the people".....I am guessing that'll be "the people" in your head.

[Kombi Buddie]

What you explained is fair enough, but given what 10000 hours are trying to achieve, I'd expect their emails and other communications being checked prior to publication to ensure they were bang on and not open to misinterpretation or risky of alienating folks by being clumsily worded.

From the rest of your reply, I was interested to read of your challenges with Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers.

Kombi - To relate this back to the juvenile football club stuff that I do - we take regularly subs from the kids at £5 per week. It sounds a lot but by the time you take in the training pitch let at £80 per week, the match pitch let at £32 per fortnight, and the referee fees - me, and others within the club still have to dig deep into our own pockets to keep the club going. We could raise the subs but we know there are families out there who can't afford it, so instead we do regular newsletters asking for donations, run sponsored events, approach local businesses for help, badger supermarkets to let us do some bag packing in store and we run events like our Sportsmans Dinner and Summer Ball. This month we're back asking for more money for a "Hotshots" thing that Motherwell FC are helping us with and we've been asking for those who can to collect those Daily Record vouchers to help fund some kit. It's a thankless task for those involved and I'm sure that many times over we've been less than subtle when trying to rouse yet more support from the same people but the bottom line is that every penny of it going back into the club to give more than 300 kids a place to train and play football and every single one of them has a new home kit, an away kit, and a training kit all supplied by the club.

I began coaching for Romford Borough Youth FC this time last year & took on the Under 8's {my sons team} & they face the same challenges as your club. We currently have 16 teams rangng from Under 8's to Under 18's and are affiliated to Romford FC {they play in the Ryman League}

I'm finding the lack of cohesion and proactivity within the club very frustrating, whereas you description of WWW suggests a "whole club" mentality.

I have a list of possible funding streams that were sent to me. You may have tried them already but if you want, I'll email them to you.

Now back to the CiC chaps......

[St. Sid]

A more interesting article in the PDE in relation to KMG's bid. Bizarre that REA gets a roasting from the far flung fuds for a single line and yet KMG is in PR meltdown. I reckon if KMG has come clean and revealed further details on his bid earlier he might still be in play. Instead he continues to give the impression of someone with a lot to hide. A £1.8M bid financed using his own assets seems a tad less disastrous than what is making its way into the press bit by bit. There is a hint that the additional funding sources were perhaps an attempt to match the benefits of the CIC - as in supporters bar, etc. Communication / PR wise...KMG would be best served getting his proposal into a pallatable form for the fans and doing a proper press release. Fans are keen to give him the benefit of the doubt; however he is not making it easy for us.

[Stuart Dickson]

What you explained is fair enough, but given what 10000 hours are trying to achieve, I'd expect their emails and other communications being checked prior to publication to ensure they were bang on and not open to misinterpretation or risky of alienating folks by being clumsily worded.

From the rest of your reply, I was interested to read of your challenges with Wishaw Wycombe Wanderers.

I began coaching for Romford Borough Youth FC this time last year & took on the Under 8's {my sons team} & they face the same challenges as your club. We currently have 16 teams rangng from Under 8's to Under 18's and are affiliated to Romford FC {they play in the Ryman League}

I'm finding the lack of cohesion and proactivity within the club very frustrating, whereas you description of WWW suggests a "whole club" mentality.

I have a list of possible funding streams that were sent to me. You may have tried them already but if you want, I'll email them to you.

Now back to the CiC chaps......that

Kombi - yeah I'd like that. I'll PM you my e-mail address shortly and I'd appreciate that very much. Maybe we can share experiences and see if we can help out each other.

Back on topic, I can take your point about the PR within 10000 hours - it's just that perhaps I'm a bit more forgiving in that 10000hours is an organisation which is pretty similar to WWW. Richard Atkinson is a business man - like the chairman of WWW. He'll have his failings and weaknesses - like the chairman of WWW. And often the membership will think he's a knob - like the chairman at WWW. At the end of the day it's up to the membership to make sure it's voice is heard, and it's up to the membership to make sure that their enthusiasm, drive and commitment are tapped into and harnessed for the success of the whole project. If the PR is weak at 10000hours just now then there is nothing to stop someone contacting Richard Atkinson to offer to check e-mails before they go out, or to offer to handle his communications with the membership.

At Motherwell AC we tapped into our membership which included the owner of The Big Partnership - one of Scotlands biggest PR companies - to handle our press releases. Surely there are marketing men and journalists within the 10000hours membership that could do much the same.