Bbc New Bias

[salmonbuddie]

Edinburgh city police confirmed on the 27th Sept that 8300 went on the march and less than 6000 were on the hill.

There was a further FOI request to ask for a confirmation of the numbers. Which were then confirmed. It goes into a bit more detail as to why the actual march took so long to pass. The marchers were spread out, there were a lot of gaps and it was badly organised by the event "managers" according to police Scotland.

The Disneyland version of events was that there was "over 20000" at the thing. There wasn't. Not even if you count the eyes. Less if you count the teeth.

Oh dear are the nasty Nats up to their old tricks again? Lying and spinning on a scale that would embarrass Peter Mandelson and Alistair Campbell. How can anyone trust anything they say anymore?

I've quoted the Police confirming the numbers and given the source of that quote, neither of you has done the same for your claim but it's the "nasty Nats" giving a "Disneyland version" who are "lying and spinning." I was going to say you couldn't make it up but it looks like semmit and drawers have managed just that.

It's like Project Fear personified........

[Drew]

call me

PM sent!

[Stuart Dickson]

I've quoted the Police confirming the numbers and given the source of that quote, neither of you has done the same for your claim but it's the "nasty Nats" giving a "Disneyland version" who are "lying and spinning." I was going to say you couldn't make it up but it looks like semmit and drawers have managed just that.

It's like Project Fear personified........

Hmm, Salmonbuddie - now you are lying.

The police did not confirm the numbers at all. Here is the article from that day on the BBC website.

To quote the relevant text

Police estimated that more than 8,000 people took part in the march.

Organisers said that between 20,000 and 30,000 people had been involved in the day's events.

Now if only you Nationalists could stop being so economical with the truth perhaps you could get on with trying to make a case as to why Scotland would be better off as an "Independent" country under the complete control of the EU?

[Stuart Dickson]

Oh and I might not be in the UK at the moment but it hasn't escaped my notice that the SNP's latest "brilliant idea" is that it wants to "invest" in loss making Prestwick Airport with the idea that if they throw enough public money at it they might eventually make it profitable.

f**king bonkers!

Edited October 10, 2013 by Stuart Dickson

[Reynard]

I've quoted the Police confirming the numbers and given the source of that quote, neither of you has done the same for your claim but it's the "nasty Nats" giving a "Disneyland version" who are "lying and spinning." I was going to say you couldn't make it up but it looks like semmit and drawers have managed just that.

It's like Project Fear personified........

No, you quoted the police federation who were nothing to do with the event in terms of boots on the ground. And who are also a bit tense with the UK government because they whapped their pension deal that had been agreed between them and the Scottish government. The FOI request was put in because it is believed that particular "non politically aligned" police organisation has become a bit more politicised than it is meant to be of late.

Edinburgh Division who were the local force involved in the policing of the "event" confirmed in the FOI request that the numbers were 8300 on the march and around 6000 on the hill. You WERE told this and you WERE told that police Scotland gave the information in the FOI request after getting the information from the police commander on the day who was a part of the policing of the event and who had been in contact with the event organisers to arrange police numbers, just as they have a match commander when there is a football match on or a rugby international.

Your estimate was from the police federation and it was wrong, and they were not actively present.

The bottom line is thta it was a dreadful turnout and the separatists know it was dreadful and have resorted to the Seville calculator in an attempt to save their blushes. Less than a year to go and more folk were inside Easter Road watching our club making a c**t of itself against Hibs.

[Stuart Dickson]

 

 

Seeing how you brought them up. 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8487400.stm

Yeah but Labour's credibility has been in the toilet for years now. I'm just surprised that the nasty Nats would follow the same route plan.

I see Kenny McAskill has been in the news again. This time is the Lockerbie Bombers supporters calling for his head over the handling of his release. Sometimes when your actions anger all sides you know you got it right. In McAskills case though I can't understand how he's still got a job. The malaise at the SNP only serves to highlight the real dearth of talent at Holyrood

[salmonbuddie]

 No, you quoted the police federation who were nothing to do with the event in terms of boots on the ground. And who are also a bit tense with the UK government because they whapped their pension deal that had been agreed between them and the Scottish government. The FOI request was put in because it is believed that particular "non politically aligned" police organisation has become a bit more politicised than it is meant to be of late.

 

Edinburgh Division who were the local force involved in the policing of the "event" confirmed in the FOI request that the numbers were 8300 on the march and around 6000 on the hill. You WERE told this and you WERE told that police Scotland gave the information in the FOI request after getting the information from the police commander on the day who was a part of the policing of the event and who had been in contact with the event organisers to arrange police numbers, just as they have a match commander when there is a football match on or a rugby international.

 

Your estimate was from the police federation and it was wrong, and they were not  actively present.

 

The bottom line is thta it was a dreadful turnout and the separatists know it was dreadful and have resorted to the Seville calculator in an attempt to save their blushes. Less than a year to go and more folk were inside Easter Road watching our club making a c**t of itself against Hibs.

You're going down the StuD route here, Reynard, I'm surprised at you - repeating yourself doesn't make it true. I'll ask again, can you give a link to the FoI request you're referencing?

The Police Federation wasn't actively present? None of the police on duty were members?

Project Fear right enough....

[oaksoft]

Yeah but Labour's credibility has been in the toilet for years now. I'm just surprised that the nasty Nats would follow the same route plan.

I see Kenny McAskill has been in the news again. This time is the Lockerbie Bombers supporters calling for his head over the handling of his release. Sometimes when your actions anger all sides you know you got it right. In McAskills case though I can't understand how he's still got a job. The malaise at the SNP only serves to highlight the real dearth of talent at Holyrood

Is there a political party whose credibility is NOT in the toilet?

[oaksoft]

Yeah but Labour's credibility has been in the toilet for years now. I'm just surprised that the nasty Nats would follow the same route plan.

I see Kenny McAskill has been in the news again. This time is the Lockerbie Bombers supporters calling for his head over the handling of his release. Sometimes when your actions anger all sides you know you got it right. In McAskills case though I can't understand how he's still got a job. The malaise at the SNP only serves to highlight the real dearth of talent at Holyrood

We need you Stuart.

Please please DO stand for election.

Your policies on health and welfare are so funny that you'd give the entire country the shot in the arm it needs during these depressing times.

[Drew]

Is there a political party whose credibility is NOT in the toilet?

I would say yes, there is.

Their reputations are no longer in the toilet as they hurtled round the u-bend years ago and are currently combined to make up the constituent parts of a massive fat-ball. Said fat-ball is currently sitting by a computer in Wishaw, in a house full of huge flat screen TVs, dribbling with anticipation at the prospect of his next contribution to this thread.

[Reynard]

You're going down the StuD route here, Reynard, I'm surprised at you - repeating yourself doesn't make it true. I'll ask again, can you give a link to the FoI request you're referencing?

The Police Federation wasn't actively present? None of the police on duty were members?

Project Fear right enough....

Just as your desperate denial doesn't mean you are correct.

Why don't you go and ask for it from Police Scotland? That way you can by pass the likes of me, who you obviously don't trust and you can also satisfy your curiosity.

On a lighter note, here is a new poll out today.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8221

Edit

to add, there is a youtube piece on it I think was uploaded this morning with the FOI reply displayed. You can freeze frame it and have a read if you feel up to eating humble pie. Cant link it just now, might do it later. Might not.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Reynard

[Stuart Dickson]

I'm not sure why Salmonbuddie is carrying on with the debate. Even the BBC article from the day of the event quotes the police as saying there were just over 8,000 involved. I've linked to that article - and we all know the BBC Scotland has a biased agenda in favour of the SNP. He accused us of repeating things without links and proof and yet his only evidence is a supposed twitter post from someone in the Police union that he doesn't link to.

A wee search on Google for Independence March figures brought this sequence of links up - and that's just half of page one out of 10. All the links cite police estimates of 8,300 at the march and the news outlets are anything from the Huffington Post, to the Scotsman, to The Herald to STV and in the Japanese and Indian newspapers too. All these articles are from the 21st and 22nd of September. It's ridiculous that the natsis are trying to re-adjust the figures to make it look a bit better but then I suppose it highlights just how desperate they have become

[Stuart Dickson]

Is there a political party whose credibility is NOT in the toilet?

Yeah - UKIP and the Conservatives.

UKIP appear to have had a reasonably free ride despite the pathetic attempts to smear them in the press and the Conservatives, for all they have an anchor around their necks in the Lib Dems, appear to have got their predictions on the economy spot on and George Osbourne has made Ed Balls look like a complete twat. FWIW my opinion is that the Conservatives haven't cut budgets by anywhere near enough. Had they done so and followed the Canadian model we'd have been a booming economy currently but I'll take the small improvement over anything Labour or the SNP would have done anyday.

[Reynard]

Yeah - UKIP and the Conservatives.

UKIP appear to have had a reasonably free ride despite the pathetic attempts to smear them in the press and the Conservatives, for all they have an anchor around their necks in the Lib Dems, appear to have got their predictions on the economy spot on and George Osbourne has made Ed Balls look like a complete twat. FWIW my opinion is that the Conservatives haven't cut budgets by anywhere near enough. Had they done so and followed the Canadian model we'd have been a booming economy currently but I'll take the small improvement over anything Labour or the SNP would have done anyday.

There is plenty of low hanging fruit still to be picked where cuts can be made. Interms of the actual cuts so far, they haven't been significant and in fact state spending is still going up, although there have been departmental cuts. From the whining of the left you'd actually think this was harming everything but it's significant that on the ground, people just aren't feeling that at all. In fact lots of people actually think things have IMPROVED.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24454006

Its also highly significant that the "too far, too fast" drivel has now been well and truly ditched by Labour and their copycat Scots nat morons too as it has been blasted to f**k as the econmy has begun to grow again.

I personally think that Osborne is a twat and he really has bottled out of doing this properly and has simply kicked the can a bit on it. He's a politician all the same, and these people always have an eye on retaining/regaining power so from that point of view it's understandable even if its frustrating.

[Drew]

FFS, get a room you two.

[linwood buddie]

What has The BBC New Bias got to do with a thread titled St Mirren For Sale,are the BBC biased towards the sale of our club ,if this is not the case then why is it even on here?

[Hew Janus]

What has The BBC New Bias got to do with a thread titled St Mirren For Sale,are the BBC biased towards the sale of our club ,if this is not the case then why is it even on here?

Dont think the BBC has anything to do with club sale unless they have a couple of swiss guys working for them. Bawjaws that started the thread put it in the wrong place and too his credit admitted mistake a couple of posts later. Now the thread seems to be a bit of salmonbuddie bating and hehaw to do with the club or the BBC.

[oaksoft]

Yeah - UKIP and the Conservatives.

Oh my poor aching sides.

One of them is a bunch of racist homophobics who have abused the expense system for years and the other is full of little Englanders who give the impression they want to shoot poor people and close the asylum seeker system.

Just as a wee aside. The Tories are in charge of a Borders Agency who are forcing gay asylum seekers to "prove" they are gay. Very young children of asylum seekers are also still being routinely locked up behind bars.

As Drew says, it's gone way beyond reputations being down the pan.

Edited October 11, 2013 by oaksoft

[Stuart Dickson]

Oh my poor aching sides.

One of them is a bunch of racist homophobics who have abused the expense system for years and the other is full of little Englanders who give the impression they want to shoot poor people and close the asylum seeker system.

Just as a wee aside. The Tories are in charge of a Borders Agency who are forcing gay asylum seekers to "prove" they are gay. Very young children of asylum seekers are also still being routinely locked up behind bars.

As Drew says, it's gone way beyond reputations being down the pan.

Erme children of asylum seekers were first put behind bars by Tony Blair government. Gordon Brown continued the policy UK wide so the Tories aren't the only ones. And let's not forget Ken McAskills assertion that he alone runs the Scottish Justice system and that he alone makes the decision who to release on compassionate grounds. I wonder how many children of asylum seekers he's release from Dungavel ....

Edited October 12, 2013 by Stuart Dickson

[Drew]

Erme children of asylum seekers were first put behind bars by Tony Blair government. Gordon Brown continued the policy UK wide so the Tories aren't the only ones. And let's not forget Ken McAskills assertion that he alone runs the Scottish Justice system and that he alone makes the decision who to release on compassionate grounds. I wonder how many children of asylum seekers he's release from Dungavel ....

I don't see Oaksoft trying to defend any of the main players, Stuart.

You would have to be naive beyond belief to genuinely trust any political party. All - and I mean without exception - will put power ahead of principles every time. Some are more despicable than others, and we need to make our choices as they aren't going away anytime soon. Nor will our system of government change sufficiently to enable real challenge to their respective positions. We have to sift out anything halfway decent in what they put forward and pin our lukewarm allegiance to them, or opt out, but let's not kid ourselves.

I generally go with the party I find to be the least morally reprehensible at any given time, but I can't embrace any of them. That way would lead only to heart-sinking, sickening disappointment.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Drew

[oaksoft]

Erme children of asylum seekers were first put behind bars by Tony Blair government. Gordon Brown continued the policy UK wide so the Tories aren't the only ones. And let's not forget Ken McAskills assertion that he alone runs the Scottish Justice system and that he alone makes the decision who to release on compassionate grounds. I wonder how many children of asylum seekers he's release from Dungavel ....

Are you listening? ALL political parties have their reputations in the toilet.

Dd I not just say that a few posts ago?

That's why the independence vote shouldn't be about party politics if you have a brain.

[oaksoft]

I don't see Oaksoft trying to defend any of the main players, Stuart.

You would have to be naive beyond belief to genuinely trust any political party. All - and I mean without exception - will put power ahead of principles every time. Some are more despicable than others, and we need to make our choices as they aren't going away anytime soon. Nor will our system of government change sufficiently to enable real challenge to their respective positions. We have to sift out anything halfway decent in what they put forward and pin our lukewarm allegiance to them, or opt out, but let's not kid ourselves.

I generally go with the party I find to be the least morally reprehensible at any given time, but I can't embrace any of them. That way would lead only to heart-sinking, sickening disappointment.

I think you've summed up my feelings on this pretty well.

I'm voting for independence purely because I think decisions about Scotland are best made by those who live and work here.

It's not anti-English.

It's not anti-Westminster.

It's not even anti-Tory and it certainly is not pro-SNP either.

I voted SNP at the last 2 elections purely because they were the least disgusting party at the time.

That might easily change next time but for the Tories to get my vote they'd need to change virtually everything they currently stand for.

My first ever vote was for the Tories though.

I've also voted Lib Dem a few times as well.

Never Labour though for some reason.

[Stuart Dickson]

Are you listening? ALL political parties have their reputations in the toilet.

Dd I not just say that a few posts ago?

That's why the independence vote shouldn't be about party politics if you have a brain.

Well I'll be voting no - principally because I don't think a leap in the dark is a good idea for my future, or that of my kids. I don't trust Scottish politicians, my dealings with any of them - apart from Jack McConnell who I never voted for - has left me feeling that I am dealing with people who I wouldn't trust to run a juvenile football team far less a country. I also don't think that independence would attract a higher quality of politician, or an electorate capable of voting for anything other than the most left wing party no matter how bad things get.

I firmly believe that an Independent Scotland could never afford the status quo in terms of services provided by the state, never mind the fairy tale fantasy land that Alex Salmond and his cronies are spinning us and I really don't see Scotland being Independent anyway, especially as Alex Salmond would have us kowtow to the will of the European Parliament without the power of any veto.

I believe Scotland is best served through our political union with the rest of the UK. It's been evidenced over nearly 300 years of history - history that Scotland, particularly Glasgow and Paisley have prospered under and I don't think it's use is spent yet. The UK retains a veto in the European Parliament. The UK is a powerful trading nation with a global reputation and we can all benefit from the shale gas that has been discovered off the coast of England together just as we've all benefited from North Sea Oil over the past 40 years. Scottish people would be really stupid to piss away everything we've got on a wing and a prayer - especially when that prayer is being offered by Alex Salmond.

[oaksoft]

Well I'll be voting no - principally because I don't think a leap in the dark is a good idea for my future, or that of my kids. I don't trust Scottish politicians, my dealings with any of them - apart from Jack McConnell who I never voted for - has left me feeling that I am dealing with people who I wouldn't trust to run a juvenile football team far less a country. I also don't think that independence would attract a higher quality of politician, or an electorate capable of voting for anything other than the most left wing party no matter how bad things get.

I firmly believe that an Independent Scotland could never afford the status quo in terms of services provided by the state, never mind the fairy tale fantasy land that Alex Salmond and his cronies are spinning us and I really don't see Scotland being Independent anyway, especially as Alex Salmond would have us kowtow to the will of the European Parliament without the power of any veto.

I believe Scotland is best served through our political union with the rest of the UK. It's been evidenced over nearly 300 years of history - history that Scotland, particularly Glasgow and Paisley have prospered under and I don't think it's use is spent yet. The UK retains a veto in the European Parliament. The UK is a powerful trading nation with a global reputation and we can all benefit from the shale gas that has been discovered off the coast of England together just as we've all benefited from North Sea Oil over the past 40 years. Scottish people would be really stupid to piss away everything we've got on a wing and a prayer - especially when that prayer is being offered by Alex Salmond.

FFS you are obsessed with Alec Salmond.

This has feck all to do with him.

This is about Scotland not a single politician.

Are you capable of intellectually separating them both?

[Bud Bundy]

Well I'll be voting no - principally because I don't think a leap in the dark is a good idea for my future, or that of my kids. I don't trust Scottish politicians, my dealings with any of them - apart from Jack McConnell who I never voted for - has left me feeling that I am dealing with people who I wouldn't trust to run a juvenile football team far less a country. I also don't think that independence would attract a higher quality of politician, or an electorate capable of voting for anything other than the most left wing party no matter how bad things get.

I firmly believe that an Independent Scotland could never afford the status quo in terms of services provided by the state, never mind the fairy tale fantasy land that Alex Salmond and his cronies are spinning us and I really don't see Scotland being Independent anyway, especially as Alex Salmond would have us kowtow to the will of the European Parliament without the power of any veto.

I believe Scotland is best served through our political union with the rest of the UK. It's been evidenced over nearly 300 years of history - history that Scotland, particularly Glasgow and Paisley have prospered under and I don't think it's use is spent yet. The UK retains a veto in the European Parliament. The UK is a powerful trading nation with a global reputation and we can all benefit from the shale gas that has been discovered off the coast of England together just as we've all benefited from North Sea Oil over the past 40 years. Scottish people would be really stupid to piss away everything we've got on a wing and a prayer - especially when that prayer is being offered by Alex Salmond.

Opinion, On The State of St James's Park ? Who is To Blame ??